Permission to take pictures?

[lilmikepb]

Do I need to permission to take pictures of someone and sell them online?

For instance,

I go to a paintball tournament and take a thousand pictures of different teams, then, put them on a site like Smugmug and sell them. Do I need permission?

Thanks,

Mike

[Skrim17]

If it is on private property I would imagine you do.

[lilmikepb]

Private property? I don't think a public paintball field that you have to pay to play on would be considered private... but I aint positive.

Another scenario:

School function- baseball game- sell pictures online.

Can you do it??

[FlyingPhotog]

If you have to pay to be there, it isn't public.

The short answer is: You need releases to sell recognizable images of people.

The ideal situation would be to have the organizer's blessing and let them worry about communicating the fact that the event will be photographed. Generally, participating at said event constitutes consent to be photographed (but people can still choose to opt out and that should be respected.)

[Flores]

editorial use is one thing, commercial use is another. who do you plan to sell these pictures to?

If your shooting pictures to sell to the participants, or to a paintball sport magazine that is probably a bit different from a permissions stand point than shooting their picture to sell to a paintball equipment manufacturer to use in an ad spread, for example. The former would be personal or editorial use, the latter would be commercial use.

My rather basic understanding of the situation is that editorial use doesn't require any special permission, unless the event organizer has reserved those rights for themselves, commercial use requires a release from all the people in the shot, before it can be used commercially.

FP is right on about the last bit, get the organizer's blessing. If you plan to sell to the participants, he will probably throw in a few plugs for you while he is briefing the players on rules, schedules, etc.

[lilmikepb]

That makes sense. If i post them to be sold and someone contacts me to take them off, I have NO problem doing that. But I just don't want to get in trouble for doind that without each persons consent... and there are A LOT of people at these games. There are other photographers doing the same thing as me and selling them, so I didn't think that it would be that big of a deal. Everyone likes to see themselves!!

[Flores]

welcome to the wild world of event photography :D

you don't want to be 'contacted' to have pictures removed. Depending on who is doing the contacting, your wallet may come away lighter from having posted images. Some minor league baseball organizations are very very touchy about people shooting 'their' events and making money off it.

[FlyingPhotog]

As well as probably expect some dinero kicked back as well.

Pretty sure that even doing editorial on private property will require the property owner's permission. Should be a slam dunk though if you're giving them good pub.

[sspellman]

The organizers of private events in the US on private or public property have the right to control behavior including photography. They can ask you to stop or leave the area, but not force you to delete or give pictures. Many private events have contracts with photographers for exclusive rights to shoot and that can be enforced by prohibiting photography.

You do need the permission of subjects to sell/publish photos of themselves for any advertising or commercial use. You also need the permission of property or trademark owners to sell/publish pictures that include their products name, and logos. The taking of pictures of individuals at private and school sporting events and posting them for sale on Smugmug is very likely to cause some legal and personal objections unless there is written or at least implied consent(such as on an admission ticket). Its generally a very poor business model to show up to private events and try to make $$$ by taking and selling pictures of individuals.

Media photographers always get permission from private event owners to take pictures even if they do not require individual permision to publish editorial photos.

-Scott

[denise69]

Great information!! THANKS!

[amyers]

You can take pictures all you want and sell them on the internet all you want. It's really a matter of publishing or publicity. Just because you have a bunch of thumbnails of photos on an internet site for sell doesn't mean you are publishing them as the courts have decided on this.

It's really up the the buyer of those photos on how they use them. If they buy them, then decide to use them commercially to promote something, then yes a release is needed but that release is obtained by the buyer not you. Most of the time the buyer wants the release before they buy them, but they will ask.

If you are going to take pictures of ballgames where mostly the parents will buy them, they take all the pictures you want and post them on the internet. Now, you may have to deal with some parents getting upset that their kid's picture is on the internet, but there's really nothing they can do about that.

This information is just in general and of course there are some exceptions.

[MJPhotos24]

You can take pictures all you want and sell them on the internet all you want. It's really a matter of publishing or publicity. Just because you have a bunch of thumbnails of photos on an internet site for sell doesn't mean you are publishing them as the courts have decided on this.

This is a month old thread, but your first sentence is not correct. You make it sound like anyone is entitled to shoot anywhere and as much as they want, which is simply not true. Private property or private events on public property can be regulated, even in public property it can be by those that have the power (police) for a few different reasons (a threat, disturbing others, etc). Don't want to leave that pubic property? Well, you can still be arrested for trespassing after being told to leave by the police along with several other charges I'm sure they won't mind tacking on.

It's really up the the buyer of those photos on how they use them. If they buy them, then decide to use them commercially to promote something, then yes a release is needed but that release is obtained by the buyer not you. Most of the time the buyer wants the release before they buy them, but they will ask.

Really seems like you're talking about buying rights to images and not what the OP was asking about selling prints and such. Buying a print does not give anyone the right to do what they want with the image after that. I've never had a buyer of prints ask for any rights, some digital files they get personal usage rights and nothing more. Going through this right now with a parent who bought a personal usage digital rights file and gave it to the paper. Now usually, OK the parent didn't know any better and I'd probably let it go - but this time I had already sent the paper info on licensing and they ignored it using the photo knowing full well it was copyright protected and about how I required a licensing fee. Can you say pay up or lawsuit, buying a print or anything doesn't give permission to anyone to have free range over the image after that.

If you are going to take pictures of ballgames where mostly the parents will buy them, they take all the pictures you want and post them on the internet. Now, you may have to deal with some parents getting upset that their kid's picture is on the internet, but there's really nothing they can do about that.

Again, not true - you need permission, it's not just show up and take all you want while ignoring the ticked off parents. Coached for a long time, been doing photography full time for a long time, worked in front offices of schools and with youth leagues - this is not true anywhere! You need permission, showing up with none is not a smart thing to do and can help create a bad reputation or get you flat out blackballed/banned. I have passes for all my events (high school I have a state pass, pro baseball one issued by MLB/MILB), and will still try to go find someone to introduce myself to or let know ahead I'm going if possible, which it isn't always, but still have permission from the highest of sources so it doesn't matter.

Parents can do something, complain. They can make one hell of a stink doing it to, and all that does is make the guy randomly showing up at events look worse and worse.

[Mike R]

Listen to what Jay and Mike say.

[amyers]

You can take pictures all you want and sell them on the internet all you want. It's really a matter of publishing or publicity. Just because you have a bunch of thumbnails of photos on an internet site for sell doesn't mean you are publishing them as the courts have decided on this.

This is a month old thread, but your first sentence is not correct. You make it sound like anyone is entitled to shoot anywhere and as much as they want, which is simply not true. Private property or private events on public property can be regulated, even in public property it can be by those that have the power (police) for a few different reasons (a threat, disturbing others, etc). Don't want to leave that pubic property? Well, you can still be arrested for trespassing after being told to leave by the police along with several other charges I'm sure they won't mind tacking on.

It's really up the the buyer of those photos on how they use them. If they buy them, then decide to use them commercially to promote something, then yes a release is needed but that release is obtained by the buyer not you. Most of the time the buyer wants the release before they buy them, but they will ask.

Really seems like you're talking about buying rights to images and not what the OP was asking about selling prints and such. Buying a print does not give anyone the right to do what they want with the image after that. I've never had a buyer of prints ask for any rights, some digital files they get personal usage rights and nothing more. Going through this right now with a parent who bought a personal usage digital rights file and gave it to the paper. Now usually, OK the parent didn't know any better and I'd probably let it go - but this time I had already sent the paper info on licensing and they ignored it using the photo knowing full well it was copyright protected and about how I required a licensing fee. Can you say pay up or lawsuit, buying a print or anything doesn't give permission to anyone to have free range over the image after that.

If you are going to take pictures of ballgames where mostly the parents will buy them, they take all the pictures you want and post them on the internet. Now, you may have to deal with some parents getting upset that their kid's picture is on the internet, but there's really nothing they can do about that.

Again, not true - you need permission, it's not just show up and take all you want while ignoring the ticked off parents. Coached for a long time, been doing photography full time for a long time, worked in front offices of schools and with youth leagues - this is not true anywhere! You need permission, showing up with none is not a smart thing to do and can help create a bad reputation or get you flat out blackballed/banned. I have passes for all my events (high school I have a state pass, pro baseball one issued by MLB/MILB), and will still try to go find someone to introduce myself to or let know ahead I'm going if possible, which it isn't always, but still have permission from the highest of sources so it doesn't matter.

Parents can do something, complain. They can make one hell of a stink doing it to, and all that does is make the guy randomly showing up at events look worse and worse.


As far as shooting whatever you want whenenver you want, of course there are exceptions as I stated. However, your examples are not one of them based on the OP's original question. Yes, the police or someone may tell you not to take photographs and you must stop, but that doesn't stop you from posting the images you have already taken on the internet, with exceptions. For example, if I go into, say a museum, and there are signs that say, "No photographs allowed", then the manager has the right to see me out the door if I was photographing, but doesn't have the right to take my memory card, therefore the shots can be posted on the internet.

As far as just showing up to kids ballgames and taking pictures all you want, YES YOU CAN. There is NO law that prevents you from doing such a thing. Now, you may be asked to leave and you must leave, but once the picture is taken, it's yours to post, again with some exceptions. I can show up to any youth league in America and shoot all I want and post those images on the internet as long as those images are not there to promote or sell something. You may be right in that if people don't like and the youth director asks me to leave, I can be blackballed. But I think that the OP's main reason for the post is asking if he/she needs written permission and the answer is no.

[MJPhotos24]

As far as shooting whatever you want whenenver you want, of course there are exceptions as I stated. However, your examples are not one of them based on the OP's original question. Yes, the police or someone may tell you not to take photographs and you must stop, but that doesn't stop you from posting the images you have already taken on the internet, with exceptions. For example, if I go into, say a museum, and there are signs that say, "No photographs allowed", then the manager has the right to see me out the door if I was photographing, but doesn't have the right to take my memory card, therefore the shots can be posted on the internet.

It's not an exception to the rule, it's the norm that you need permission at the events that are being talked about. In your example you're trespassing as soon as you start taking images because you're violating the rules of the property, that means you are not legally obtaining the images in the first place so they sure as hell can make you take them down and take legal action. You can't break into a house and shoot all you want and post those, the owner can force you to remove them because you did not obtain them legally. Only a judge can force the deletion of images, or make you destroy all copies, etc. but the owner of the property can take action against you for illegally obtaining the images in the first place and have them removed. Just asking you to, well you can refuse, but don't expect to win that one in court.

I have no clue where you're getting this once it's on the memory card it's just fine no matter what idea.

As far as just showing up to kids ballgames and taking pictures all you want, YES YOU CAN. There is NO law that prevents you from doing such a thing. Now, you may be asked to leave and you must leave, but once the picture is taken, it's yours to post, again with some exceptions. I can show up to any youth league in America and shoot all I want and post those images on the internet as long as those images are not there to promote or sell something. You may be right in that if people don't like and the youth director asks me to leave, I can be blackballed. But I think that the OP's main reason for the post is asking if he/she needs written permission and the answer is no.

NO, YOU CAN'T! Not sure where you're getting your legal advice but you better find a new source. Almost all of those games you're talking about are on private property and put on by organizers that have their own rules that they can hold you to. Even public high schools are the same way, some don't care, some have strict rules against it. There are laws preventing you from just showing up and shooting. Some places like malls, parks, etc. that is open to the public you are granted access to - if they have no photography rules then soon as you start shooting you are trespassing. It's well recorded by several photography lawyers and readily available online.

Again, you say once the picture is on the memory card it's yours to post, not always true if you obtained it by breaking the rules and/or law. It all depends on the property owner, you need permission from them to shoot. If they don't care or there is no restrictions it's fine to shoot. If they do care and there are restrictions that you violate YOU can be forced to remove them from your site.

[Mike R]

Play by the rules and build up a good reputation, Don't play by the rules and and you'll end up with a reputation that will kill any chance of getting any business. Remember that the photography business is 80-90% marketing. A poor photographer that is great at marketing will make more than a great photographer with poor marketing skills.

[amyers]

As far as shooting whatever you want whenenver you want, of course there are exceptions as I stated. However, your examples are not one of them based on the OP's original question. Yes, the police or someone may tell you not to take photographs and you must stop, but that doesn't stop you from posting the images you have already taken on the internet, with exceptions. For example, if I go into, say a museum, and there are signs that say, "No photographs allowed", then the manager has the right to see me out the door if I was photographing, but doesn't have the right to take my memory card, therefore the shots can be posted on the internet.

It's not an exception to the rule, it's the norm that you need permission at the events that are being talked about. In your example you're trespassing as soon as you start taking images because you're violating the rules of the property, that means you are not legally obtaining the images in the first place so they sure as hell can make you take them down and take legal action. You can't break into a house and shoot all you want and post those, the owner can force you to remove them because you did not obtain them legally. Only a judge can force the deletion of images, or make you destroy all copies, etc. but the owner of the property can take action against you for illegally obtaining the images in the first place and have them removed. Just asking you to, well you can refuse, but don't expect to win that one in court.

I have no clue where you're getting this once it's on the memory card it's just fine no matter what idea.

As far as just showing up to kids ballgames and taking pictures all you want, YES YOU CAN. There is NO law that prevents you from doing such a thing. Now, you may be asked to leave and you must leave, but once the picture is taken, it's yours to post, again with some exceptions. I can show up to any youth league in America and shoot all I want and post those images on the internet as long as those images are not there to promote or sell something. You may be right in that if people don't like and the youth director asks me to leave, I can be blackballed. But I think that the OP's main reason for the post is asking if he/she needs written permission and the answer is no.

NO, YOU CAN'T! Not sure where you're getting your legal advice but you better find a new source. Almost all of those games you're talking about are on private property and put on by organizers that have their own rules that they can hold you to. Even public high schools are the same way, some don't care, some have strict rules against it. There are laws preventing you from just showing up and shooting. Some places like malls, parks, etc. that is open to the public you are granted access to - if they have no photography rules then soon as you start shooting you are trespassing. It's well recorded by several photography lawyers and readily available online.

Again, you say once the picture is on the memory card it's yours to post, not always true if you obtained it by breaking the rules and/or law. It all depends on the property owner, you need permission from them to shoot. If they don't care or there is no restrictions it's fine to shoot. If they do care and there are restrictions that you violate YOU can be forced to remove them from your site.

I'm not here to argue, but you basically can shoot whatever you want whenever you without getting into legal trouble provided that you are not invading someone's privacy, i.e. someone's home. Once you step out of your home, you basically forfeit your right to privacy unless you reasonably expect privacy such as a bathroom, etc. So, if there is a baseball game at the local baseball field, then you can shoot as much as you want. If there's a kids soccer game at some private school, you can still shoot all you want. Again, they can ask you to leave, but you unless they do, have at it.

[amyers]

Play by the rules and build up a good reputation, Don't play by the rules and and you'll end up with a reputation that will kill any chance of getting any business. Remember that the photography business is 80-90% marketing. A poor photographer that is great at marketing will make more than a great photographer with poor marketing skills.

I agree, but that's a different issue than what is a photographer's rights.

[MJPhotos24]

I'm not here to argue, but you basically can shoot whatever you want whenever you without getting into legal trouble provided that you are not invading someone's privacy, i.e. someone's home. Once you step out of your home, you basically forfeit your right to privacy unless you reasonably expect privacy such as a bathroom, etc. So, if there is a baseball game at the local baseball field, then you can shoot as much as you want. If there's a kids soccer game at some private school, you can still shoot all you want. Again, they can ask you to leave, but you unless they do, have at it.

You seriously do not know the laws, you're wrong, if you don't want to argue figure that part out and then study up on the laws. I can't put it anymore simply, you're wrong!

[Edges_of_Twilight]

I'm not here to argue, but you basically can shoot whatever you want whenever you without getting into legal trouble provided that you are not invading someone's privacy, i.e. someone's home. Once you step out of your home, you basically forfeit your right to privacy unless you reasonably expect privacy such as a bathroom, etc. So, if there is a baseball game at the local baseball field, then you can shoot as much as you want. If there's a kids soccer game at some private school, you can still shoot all you want. Again, they can ask you to leave, but you unless they do, have at it.

You should listen to the others and get new legal advice as the advice you have been given is very wrong. I have met with no less than 4 different lawyers who specialize in this type of law, regarding privacy laws, copyright, etc I also specialize in event photography and have been in charge of setting up these type of events. What you are doing could be illegal depending on the rules of the events, venues and locations that you shoot. You could be sued if you don't go through the proper avenues to shoot.

[HappySnapper90]

If you have to pay to be there, it isn't public.


Not correct. It's probably admission fee. Just like to play a municipal golf course or public tobaggan chutes. There's nothing that says a city cannot build and operate a paint ball facility on their property.