CANON EOS 10D OR NIKON 100D

[eeman]

I’VE BEEN USING SLR CAMERAS FOR THE LAST 15 YEARS (CANON F1, ETC., MAINLY) AND HAVE FAIRLY GOOD BACKGROUND IN PHOTOGRAPHY, NOW
I'M READY TO BUY MY FIRST DSLR AND THE TWO RUNNER-UPS ARE CANON EOS 10D AND NIKON 100D.
HOWEVER, THE MORE I READ REVIEWS ABOUT EITHER ONE OF THEM, THE MORE CONFUSED I GROW. OPINIONS COULD BE 180 DEGREE OPPOSED AND/OR BIOS TO THE MANUFACTURER SUPPORTING THE COMMERCIAL ADDS (MAGAZINES, ETC.).
I WOULD APPRECIATE INDEPENDENT OPINIONS ABOUT THESE TWO CAMERAS FROM PROFESSIONALS OR AMATEURS ALIKE.
THANKS
EJ

[lziering]

Well, asking on this forum you are going to get a Canon-biased view. And with good reason. The 10D is superior to Nikon in every way except that it won't take Nikon glass. So if you own a lot of Nikon lenses than you should stick with the D100. If you don't have a big investment in Nikon lenses than the only choice is the 10D. The Canon 10D is cheaper by $500, it is better built (cast mag. alloy vs plastic), the images have less noise, it has video out so you can play back images on a regular TV, etc., etc., etc. The only feature that is better on the Nikon is that you can select different time delays for the self-timer. Almost every neutral review said the D60 was a better camera than the D100 and I can tell you having owned both a D60 and a 10D that the 10D is a much better camea than a D60.

Game over!

[hurry]

you can select different time delays for the self-timer :-) :-) :-)

I think, I search for D100 instead 10D ..... :------)

[eeman]

tHANKS,
EJ

[eeman]

FOR THE 10D, WHAT ABOUT THE SOFTWARE PACKAGE, ADOBE ELEMENTS AND THE SYNCHRONIZATION FOR UPLOADS AND ADJUSTMENTS? IF IT SUCKS, LIKE MANY REVIEWS CLAIM, IS THERE ANOTHER SOFTWARE PACKAGE YOU CAN USE WITH YOUR CAMERA?
AND THEN AGAIN, WHAT ABOUT THE CCD SENSOR VS. THE CMOS?
AND LASTLY, IS POST PROCESSING NEEDED ON EVERY PICTURE YOU TAKE REGARDLESS OF HOW GOOD PHOTOGRAPHER YOU ARE?
THEN AGAIN, SOME D100 FANS CLAIM THAT THEIR NEF RAW FILES WORK REAL WELL, A MILLION TIMES BETTER THAN THE RAW FILES OF 10D, SPECIALLY WITH COLOR AND EXPOSURE COMPENSATION.
ANY COMMENTS?

[canonut]

eeman,

I was in the same boat with the D100 -v- D60 dilemma until the release of the 10d. If you have a chance to handle both and compare image quality, you won't look back at the Nikon. I've used Nikons for the last 12 years in film (f4s and f5's) and you couln't have paid me to move - I even tried once! Unless you have a significant investment in glass, my recommendation is the 10D. Neither the D60 or the D100 offered anything comparable to what Canon now has on the table.

[lluscombe]

So, I am not the only one who has switched. I was a Nikon fan, but after waiting years for a decent, affordable SLR, I purchased a 10D. Nice camera. My Nikon stuff is now on eBay :(

[martcol]

10D! 10D! 10D! :D

I've got no previous SLR experience to compare with othr than 20 years ago. I did have a brief shop trial with a D100 and admit it was nice. I nearly bought one but I'm glad I didn't. The 10D is awesome. It handles well - but bear in mind I didn't move on from any other SLR; everything works fabulously. I think it is a well worked out piece of kit. So, Autofocus can be a bit off but on the whole mine seem cool (although I can only aspire to L glass).

The trick I think is to handle it (or not). Once you feel the 10D there's no real contest. If you surf the web for a while you will find heaps of images, many attesting to no editing, and taken by ordinary punters. I find all my shots to be even, natural looking pictures unless I skrew up.

The above post "Unless you have a significant investment in glass, my recommendation is the 10D." makes absolute sense though. If you have lots of Nikon stuff stay put! I imagine that Digital improvements will move on at a pace and prices will continue to tumble even in the Nikon camp! You can then buy the Nikon 100D!

Martin

[Pekka]

Hi,

First of all, writing in CAPS means SHOUTING in net, so please do not shout all the time :)

eeman wrote:
FOR THE 10D, WHAT ABOUT THE SOFTWARE PACKAGE, ADOBE ELEMENTS AND THE SYNCHRONIZATION FOR UPLOADS AND ADJUSTMENTS? IF IT SUCKS, LIKE MANY REVIEWS CLAIM, IS THERE ANOTHER SOFTWARE PACKAGE YOU CAN USE WITH YOUR CAMERA?

You can choose between Canon converters, Adobe RAW Converter, BreezeBrowser, Yarc, Capture One (LE)...

AND THEN AGAIN, WHAT ABOUT THE CCD SENSOR VS. THE CMOS?

CMOS eats less power, gathers less dust and has less pixel noise.

AND LASTLY, IS POST PROCESSING NEEDED ON EVERY PICTURE YOU TAKE REGARDLESS OF HOW GOOD PHOTOGRAPHER YOU ARE?

This question assumes that camera should do its own desicions how to output final image. DSLRs do not do that. If you seek point and shoot type of camera, look for compact cameras. Digital SLR photos will always need _some_ PC work.

THEN AGAIN, SOME D100 FANS CLAIM THAT THEIR NEF RAW FILES WORK REAL WELL, A MILLION TIMES BETTER THAN THE RAW FILES OF 10D, SPECIALLY WITH COLOR AND EXPOSURE COMPENSATION.
ANY COMMENTS?


All the software above have excellect range of settings for RAW conversion.

[brian304]

Ok I admint I am a switcher. I came from Nikon. The Canon software is horrible, the Nikon almost great. But then again Breezebrowser is awesome.
The 10D has no noise. The d100 is much more noisy at iso 200 or 400. In fact I think on some brighter shots you could use iso 800 on the 10d. It is so smooth.
One bummer the 10D has no spot metering, I used it extensively on my Nikon. This is a big deal when shooting smaller birds or contrasty shots. just be aware of it.
But I really switched because the Canon glass is mostly all USM and the lenses I wanted are all IS and less money than the NIkon counterparts. In some cases almost $2000 less.
Switch for lenses not bodies I told myself but then the 10d came along and for the money it is a killer camera, not to say you wouldn't need some time to get used to the Canon way of doing things versus Nikon.

hope this helps
Brian

[kendersplace]

E -

Caps key... please turn off the caps key. Thanks. ;)

I did not read all the above responses so forgive me if I repeat someone.

I would consider myself an advance amature / semi-pro. I make some $$ on about 10% of my shooting, the rest is for my own fun. I have been in photography for about 10 yrs, worked at a pro photo shop for 2 years, and taught darkroom processes to first year photo students for 1 year. (An idea for you of where I'm coming from).

I went from film to a D-SLR about 6 months ago. I realized I had gone through about 150 rolls of Velvia the previous year. At $6 a roll, plus $4 / roll for E-6 chemicals, it was costing $10 a roll... for more than $1500 over the year. The price now justified the move as it would save me $$ (and HOURS standing at the film scanner) to goto full digital.

I really did my reasearch and narrowed it down to the Nikon D100 and the (then just released) Canon D60. I was going from a Pentax film setup, so I had no equipment or loyalty to fit either brand to effect my descision. Long story short, I ended up with the D100 (less expensive and I could actually find one at the time).

I really liked the D100, I used it for the last 6 months. However, last week I sold my D100 (and all the Nikon glass & flash I'd purchased) and ordered a 10D and some Canon lenses. It arrived today, so don't have much hands-on, but I can tell the difference.

Here are some things to consider:

1. 10D is about $200 less expensive.

2. USM lenses are great. The equivelant technology for Nikon is their AF-S focus. On average, I find that the same lense from both makers, Canon with USM and Nikon with AF-S - I find the Canon is much less expensive, especially when you get into longer zooms.

3. 10D has a tilt switch - it knows when you shoot verticle and notes accordingly. A real time saver when you have to manually roate 500 random images from a shoot. This was a big plus for me.

4. The D100 has no PC Synch plug - so you can't plug directly into industry standard studio lighting equipment.

5. The Canon flash system is MUUUUUUUUUCH simpler. Maybe I'm just dumb, but I had a hell of a time trying to figure out the quirks of getting the D100 and the SB-80DX flash to work together and in a predictable manor. Forget it. I got the Canon 420ex with the 10D. Shot a bunch of flash frames tonight, and every last one of them looked "good" for exposure. Very easy and predictable (plus the 420 is about half the price of the N SB-80DX).

6. The Canon has darn near zero noise. You can shoot several minute long exposures with very little noise. The high ISO's on the 10D (800+) seem to exhibit much less noise than comperable speed film due to grain. I shoot 15-30 sec exposures of lightning storms. The Nikon was a snowey mess after about 5 seconds, and still had to burn film for the longer shots. Now, I can use the 10D for the same shots with satisfactory results.

7. Search for "Nikon D100 Under Exposure". I wrote a large article that was passed around a bunch of forums about this. It doesn't actually under expose, but it does render scenes too dark. You can set up custom tone curves through Nikon Capture software to help overcome this, but I still never looks quite right.

8. Regardless of the "under exposure" problem, I think the D100 has a problem rendering contrasts. It seems to have way too much contrast, but not in the traditional sense (even if reducing the contrast settings). If there is a sharp line of contrast (a basic shadow from a tree), the sun lit side seems over done and blown out, and the shadow seems to be basically black. You can pull the values out with Photoshop, so the information is in the image, but as it comes out of the camera, I was never happy.

9. Soft images out of the D100. I used the "prosumer" grade lenses, not the true "pros". I went to my dealer and rented a collection of true Nikon "pro" lenses for a weekend and did some tests. Still very soft images. Look at the reviews at www.dpreview.com - especially the test target. Their "full review" of the 10D shows this test target with the 10D macro and also the D100 with an N pro lense. The 10D is very clearly much more sharp. Even with pro lenses I could never get what I considered to be a "sharp" picture out of the D100. Now, with my 10D, even with a less than pro lense, I really like the image sharpness.

10. In-camera sharpening on the D100 is basically useless. It sharpens the heck out of the noise, I'll sure say that. In-camera sharpening is useless above ISO 200 due to all the added noise on the D100.

11. Images are smaller file size on the 10D. I have a 1GB IBM microdrive for storage. In large fine .jpg mode, I went from about 250 images on a card to about 350 (don't remember exact numbers, but it was a lot more) and in RAW mode I could only do 64 images on the D100, but can get about 120 RAW images from the 10D.

12. The 10D is made of metal. As I have gone from one to the other in less than a week, I can say that the 10D is much more sturdy. The compact flash door on the D100 is real flimbsey. Also, the battery cover latch actually holds tension on the battery w/ the D100. If the latch slips, out pops your battery. The 10D has a secondary internal catch for the battery. Opening the batt door does not release the batt in this case. Very good idea.

13. When you eject the CF card on the D100, it pops out about 3.5 millemeters. You basically have to pick at it with your fingernails (especially the microdrive, as it is thicker than a standard CF card and fits real snug). The 10D ejects it far enough to actually get a grip on it w/ your fingers.

14. The LCD on the 10D is MUCH better than the D100. This was shockingly clear as soon as I powerd up the camera. It is crisp and bright, and also has a wide viewing angle where images still look okay. On the D100, you had to park your eye directly in front of the LCD to see it well. A real pain in the a$$ when showing an image preview to your client / wife / whatever.

15. 10D auto focus seems to do better in low light or with low contrast subject than the D100. Regarding the ever popular "front focus problem / issue" - I do think my cam does front focus a bit. Not much, but just a little. I did this with a controlled test shooting a slightly slanted ruler from a tripod, lense wide open under good lighting. I've only tried it w/ one lense so far (24-85 USM) as my other 2 lenses are on back order. I don't think it's a big deal. Once I do more testing with it over the next week, if it becomes a problem I will ship it back and get another one (as other people have done to solve this problem).

Even if a "front focus" problem does exist, it is so minescule, and I would MUCH MUCH MUCH rather have this problem than the under exposure problem with the D100.

16. The image buffer is much better in the 10D. On the D100 you could only shoot three (if I remember correctly) RAW images before the buffer would fill and have to be written to the CF card. Regardless of quality level, the 10D will allow you to shoot 9 images into the buffer at 3 fps - even in Raw!!

So there's 16 points to consider from someone that has basically used both cams and I feel I can make a good direct comparison. If you don't already have lots of Nikon equipment, it would be my personal recomendation to go for the 10D.

Whew.... what an essay. I need to book mark this one to others asking the question. ;)

Hope that helps.
-Kevin

[kendersplace]

lziering wrote:
it has video out so you can play back images on a regular TV


So does the D100, FYI, but now I'm splitting hairs. ;)

[davemo]

Kevin

Wow, what an epistle. I am a committed Canoneer even though I have a small gripe with them at the moment on an accessory supply. I have film SLRs, a G2 and D30, but have got itchy fingers to get a 10D.

The point of this post - Thanks, very informative and clearly written. You must have helped a lot of people with this.

Dave

[Mr.Jalapeno]

Excellent list, Kevin!
I'd like to add #17-
Canon firmware upgrades can be installed by the user via download.
Nikon firmware upgrades require that the camera be shipped to Nikon.