10d and D60 workflow issues

[echelonphoto]

This post may be long and convuluted, but I need to air my problems and maybe find a solution. I have been attempting to get a good digital workflow going for a year now and have been somewhat frustrated.

Lets go back to last March...got my D60 after 6 months with an S2. Also got a Canon S800 printer. First week with camera, I made about 100 great images and printed them on my S800 with outstanding results...good contrast, great sharpness and detail, good skin tones (with minor variations). I was in heaven. This is all on an uncalibrated monitor. Took a trip to France in July and made 800 images in 3 days. Came back and made some dynamite large prints on an Epson 7600 (distributor demo) including a 14 by 60" panorama of the nyc skyline. I am still in heaven! Start using the D60 as an auxiliary camera a weddings and make slide shows on pics to exe. great!

Now comes the downside. I shoot my first all digital wedding it was a small wedding with a 5x7 album, so I feel that the D60 will be more than up to the task. Shoot 300+ images and make a slide show. I also decide to try the Frontier system at sam's club to make my 4x6 proofs...I edit and correct the pics in ps and size them as 4x5 tiffs at 300dpi. I get them back and they are dark and terribly dull...so now the bubble finally burst and I have to get into some kind of color managment. I adjust these prints somewhat lighter and more contrasty and get slightly better results.

Fast forward to this year...I am now using sam's club for proofs and Miller's lab for digital prints. After a long bout of experimentation and using a spyder...I have got myself keyed in to their color and am getting some pretty good prints. However, it took me a long time to get the D60 to give me good skin tones ...there was too much green and yellow in them. I had canon recalibrate the camera and it is much better. However, the biggest problem I have is that you have to dial a tremendous amount of contrast into the file to get a decent print from the frontier...yet looking at my inkjet prints...they didn't need this...they also look sharper and less "digital" than the frontier prints, which have kind of a subtle "mushy pixelization" in the edges. Remember, I am sizing these files to minimum 240 dpi and only sharpening after resizing. Now to get the proper contrast in the faces, you wind up blowing out the lighter clothing (esp bridal gowns) in the shots, so now I have to resort to masking off the gowns in PS before I do levels to control this. Why is this not a problem with the injets and why do the frontier prints invariably come out softer and less punchy?

Excuse the rambling...I really could use some educated input here.

Thanks,
Andy
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Posts: 127 | From: Cherry Hill, N.J. USA | Registered: Jul 2001 |

[Longwatcher]

My first guess based on my experience and a print test I did is paper versus ink is causing the problem.

I say this because my Canon S9000 with Kodak Paper produces more vibrant colors, but tend to have a slight cyan tint. With Epson and Canon Papers it tends to match the Monitor, but slightly grayed out. With Office Depot paper I tend to get a lighter print. All from the same photoshop image file printed one after another.

Add in a different printer/ink combo and I suspect you could be getting significantly different results even with the same paper you used on the ink jet.

Each Printer/Ink/Paper combo appears to be different, although brands seem to have similiar results (exception Office Depot paper which is made by at least 2 different companies).

Just my experience

[achic]

I you read the text...I am saying that with injets, the files seem to work better...more contrast and saturation. With the frontier, the file requires tremendous amount of contrast to print with a snappy look and it does not appear as sharp as with an inkjet.

[echelonphoto]

yes

[DWard]

Do you have the profile for the Frontier machines that you are using for your printing?

The observation about different results with different paper/ink combinations on the same printer illistrates that each paper/ink combo, and each printer have a unique characteristic. Matching this characteristic to the image as seen in Photoshop with Adobe or sRGB color space requires a profile.

There are sources for Frontier profiles (Dry Creek being one). They also have a kit that will permit you to profile the Frontier where you get your prints made.

Until you have done this level of color management there is little hope of consistency. Your prints to date on your printer seem to have been with the stock inks and paper, which means you have happilly fallen within the "defualt" profile space designed for weekend snap shooters.

David