The Switch to Raw

[britt777]

just what I needed one more thing to learn...lol. I am trying to get into the whole RAW shooting thing. I took some photos tonight and I set camera to RAW+JPEG. when I open the photos in CS it only opens them in jpeg. What am I missing. I thought the Raw interface would open automatically in CS. Help please.

[britt777]

Ok now I know I'm in trouble. I switched to just raw mode and the pictures are on the camera, but can't get them onto computer, it shows nothing to copy. Oh I should have known better. First trying to learn PS and now this. I think that is more than one can handle...lol. Please help. what am I doing wrong?

[jimsolt]

Ok now I know I'm in trouble. I switched to just raw mode and the pictures are on the camera, but can't get them onto computer, it shows nothing to copy. Oh I should have known better. First trying to learn PS and now this. I think that is more than one can handle...lol. Please help. what am I doing wrong?
Your 20D would require the proper ACR plugin version. I believe it would be ACR 3.0 or higher. Check this link (http://www.adobe.com/products/photoshop/cameraraw.html) for details. You may find that the appropriate plugin will not work with CS. In that case, you can download Adobe DNG, use the Canon DPP or one of several other RAW converters, all of which have their ardent supporters on this forum.

Jim

[Sathi]

Have you been able to transfer the raw files to your pc successfuly yet? Check your folder they have a .cr2 extension. If not how do you copy your pictures off your camera?

Don't give up shooting in raw. Now that I have made the transition I find the difference in quality to be night and day. Much more than I thaught it would be.

[britt777]

I transfer using usb cable from camera to computer. No I have not successfuly transfered pictures yet. Oh this is frustrating. I would have never started all this, especially this late. We live as though we have nothing better to do with our time. I spend more time in the forums and at the darn computer than I do getting to take pictures.....grrrrr!!!!!
Thank you for your help and support though.

[jfrancho]

If you are using Photosop CS, you will need Adobe Camera Raw 2.4. This version supports Canon Raw files made with the 20D.
As far as getting the pictures from the camera to the computer, get a card reader. Makes life a lot easier.

[britt777]

I just downloaded the 2.4, but I guess I can't get them from the camera to computer. What if I don't want a card reader?

[jfrancho]

Then, I don't know. Try uninstalling and reinstalling the drivers that came with the camera. Make sure you go back to the manual, and follow the process step by step. Personally, I don't understand the resistance to getting a $15 item that eliminates several of the problems you are experiencing, and some minor data corruption risks.

[britt777]

http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?FamilyID=d48e808e-b10d-4ce4-a141-5866fd4a3286&displaylang=en

Why spend $ 15 if not needed. I get tired of having to buy something to make something else work right....grrrr. Sorry no punt intended. just getting a little late.

[jfrancho]

I'm not sure what the MS tool has to do with your issue (although the early versions of it didn't work right), but like I said, you can have it your way - you don't have to buy the thing, it just makes it easier.

[Desertraptor]

Perseverance will pay off in the end but it can be quite a learning curve going to RAW
Dont give up on it Brittany.

[Robert_Lay]

Ok now I know I'm in trouble. I switched to just raw mode and the pictures are on the camera, but can't get them onto computer, it shows nothing to copy. Oh I should have known better. First trying to learn PS and now this. I think that is more than one can handle...lol. Please help. what am I doing wrong?

Dear Britt,

Seems like you are being misdirected.

The issue of how to get RAW format images from the camera (20D) into the computer is one with no options - there is only one way and that is via a 3rd party card reader. See your manual - specifically the note near the bottom of page W-17 and also the page on the card reader, page W-11.

[danedel]

I can verify that with my 1D Mk2. I couldn’t read any .cr2 files when connected to the camera directly. Then when I used a card reader, my PS couldn’t recognize the .cr2 format until I downloaded the new camera raw plug-in. really all in all it wasn’t that hard to setup. The plug-in was free, and the card reader was like five dollars on eBay. Try getting this to work on Linux or something, them you’ll switch back to windows in a second.

[Sathi]

http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?FamilyID=d48e808e-b10d-4ce4-a141-5866fd4a3286&displaylang=en

Why spend $ 15 if not needed. I get tired of having to buy something to make something else work right....grrrr. Sorry no punt intended. just getting a little late. You do not need to buy anything extra and you do not need a card reader to pull raw files off your 20d, even though I would recommend using one. A program should have come with your 20d called EOSViewerUtility. Plug your 20d into your pc using the usb cable. Start up Eosviewerutility. Then turn on the 20d. A 20d icon should pop up at the top of the folder list view to the left. When you explore into the 20d icon you will see a bunch of folders. Fish around in there and you will find your raw files in one, or multiple folders. Some folders will be empty. You can then copy them onto your pc. I used to copy my raw files off the 20d this way until I bought a card reader. It really is an ugly program, but it will work. Once they are on your pc you can open them up in photoshop CS provided you have the Adobe Camera Raw 2.4 plugin installed as jfrancho pointed out.

[jfrancho]

Dear Britt,

Seems like you are being misdirected.

The issue of how to get RAW format images from the camera (20D) into the computer is one with no options - there is only one way and that is via a 3rd party card reader. See your manual - specifically the note near the bottom of page W-17 and also the page on the card reader, page W-11.Actually, this is misleading. The note at the bottom of p, W-17 refers to editing the raw file on the card, which has nothing to do with downloading images to a HDD. Brit, follow what Sathi said, and check your Communication Setting on your camera. I'm pretty sure it should be set to "Normal". If it is set to PTP, only jpeg format will be supported by WinXP Scanner Wizard (which actually is an EVIL wizard, so don't use it...).

[Poco]

If my experience with my 350D is any help, I noticed that toggling the communication settings in the camera seemed to toggle which format of file I could see through Windows Explorer. I had almost the exact same problem when I first got my camera and freaked out until I realized the problem (I put my card into a card reader and saw all the files so at least I knew the pictures were there). Canon's USB support leaves a lot to be desired. They do something funny so the camera isn't just a fancy card reader (like it should be when connected through USB). The only reason I went with the camera instead of my card reader is that I figured it would be faster as my old card reader was USB1 I quickly switched back. It is so much easier to use a card reader...

- It doesn't use the camera battery.
- You can use the camera with one card while you have the other in the computer (not a bit deal).
- You can easily put files and photos back on the memory card (this is a big one if you want to take some photos to a local print shop and don't feel like burning a CD, or use the cards for other purposes).
- You can take the card reader with you to other people's computers who don't have any of the Canon drivers (or want them).
- The list goes on...

I eventually bought an USB2 internal card reader (fits where a floppy disk drive would go if I had one) and it came with an extra USB port. I had an extra port on my MB that I didn't even know about. So instead of taking one USB port away it added one.

Very convenient and I can keep my old portable card reader in my camera bag for emergencies. Of all the extra expenses of photography, this is a small one that is worth every penny (I was just drooling over a 70-200 2.8L IS at the store today and I wish it cost 10 times a card reader).

[SkipD]

Britt - the bottom line is that you should get a card reader. Even if you like to transfer files via the USB connection to the camera, you will find times when you NEED the card reader. For example, if the file system on the card gets corrupted, you will need the card reader and file recovery software to get at the files. If you want to upgrade firmware for your camera, you must have a card reader.

Make sure you get a USB 2.0 or better card reader. They are much faster than the older USB 1 (you might just see USB with no numbers on the packaging of the old ones).

Once you use a card reader, I think you will find it so much easier to move files that way instead of hooking up the camera with a cable. You can leave the card reader connected to the computer and just move the card rather than handling the cable for the camera.

[britt777]

thanks for all the tips and suggestions. I will get a card reader. Any suggestions as to which one to pick up. My ports are still all usb1.....=(

[SkipD]

I like the Lexar "USB 2.0 Multi-Card Reader". Available at Wal-Mart for about $25 the last time I looked. One beauty of this one is that it takes all sorts of memory cards. You may only have one card type now, but a friend could have an SD card in a camera, for example.

It will work fine on a USB 1 port, and be ready for when you upgrade your computer (or parts of it).

Wal-Mart has others to choose from as well, if I remember correctly. Their prices are extremely competetive.

[jfrancho]

The one SkipD recommends is great one. I have the cheaper one trick pony Sandisk model: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B00064V6R6/qid=1125317320/sr=8-4/ref=pd_bbs_4/102-1944574-5408934?v=glance&s=electronics&n=507846

[Robert_Lay]

Actually, this is misleading. The note at the bottom of p, W-17 refers to editing the raw file on the card, which has nothing to do with downloading images to a HDD. Brit, follow what Sathi said, and check your Communication Setting on your camera. I'm pretty sure it should be set to "Normal". If it is set to PTP, only jpeg format will be supported by WinXP Scanner Wizard (which actually is an EVIL wizard, so don't use it...).

Sorry, but that's not what my documentation says. Here is what it says, in the EOS Digital Software manual on page W-17, verbatim:

"When you have selected a RAW image saved on the memory card inside the camera, nothing is displayed on the RAW adjustment tool palette and the image cannot be editied. Work with the images saved on your computer from the memory card."

[jfrancho]

Far be it for you or me to hijack this thread to argue a point where you flat wrong in your assumption that a card reader is required to download files from the camera, and your incorrect interpretation of the relevence of the quoted documentation, but I will oblige you this one post. Others have posted information that supports my statement. The original poster wanted to know why she could not download images from her camera to her computer, not why she could not edit them. This is possible without a card reader, although the use of one is highly supported and recommended by myself, and the majority of other members. I hope that brit is able to apply the info in this thread towards a solution.

[Hellashot]

Stay away from Microsoft's RAW crap, let them leave it to those who know the stuff. You need a card reader to get RAW files off your card.

[britt777]

Ok Ok, I got the card reader lol. I will let everyone know how it turned out.
Thanks for all the tip and suggestions. Didn't mean to cause so much confusion.

Brittany

[jfrancho]

Ok Ok, I got the card reader lol. I will let everyone know how it turned out.
Thanks for all the tip and suggestions. Didn't mean to cause so much confusion.

Brittany
Congrats! Seriously, you will like using. I use mine to "sneaker net" music and video from home to work, friends' pc's. Easier than sending big emails. Works like a bulky thumb drive. Anyway, now you won't have to worry about camera settings, camera drivers, batteries, etc. Hopefully you are well on your way to doing the fun stuff in raw.

[britt777]

All files are now on computer....yaaaa. Now I just need to know should I use Raw Essentials or PS CS?

[britt777]

Also should I open photo in 8bit or 16bit?

[tommykjensen]

Also should I open photo in 8bit or 16bit?

16 bit and use ProPhoto colorspace both to give You most data to work on.

Later You would need to convert to 8 bit and sRGB colorspace for web display.

[tommykjensen]

All files are now on computer....yaaaa. Now I just need to know should I use Raw Essentials or PS CS?

If You are using PS CS I can highly recommend the book "Real World Camera Raw with Adobe Photoshop CS" by Bruce Fraser.

[Sathi]

16 bit and use ProPhoto colorspace both to give You most data to work on.

Later You would need to convert to 8 bit and sRGB colorspace for web display.

Those settings might be a tad ambitious for her computer since she mentioned she was still at usb 1.

[jfrancho]

Sathi, are using the fact that her computer is equipped with USB 1.0 as evidence that her processor and memory may be a little shy of the minimum requirements to work on files that big?

[ToneB]

With a 1.1 USB the transfers will be slow. You can buy a $20 USB 2.0 card that plugs into a PCI slot on the computer. But it depends on your comfort level to open your computer and install a card. This is a cheap way to save a major upgrade to a new system with USB 2.0. Just a thought. I would hate to see you switch to RAW and regret the slowness of off loading the larger files. RAW is the way to go, it allows so much flexibility. If you want to discuss the options more send me a PM. Tony

[Sathi]

Sathi, are using the fact that her computer is equipped with USB 1.0 as evidence that her processor and memory may be a little shy of the minimum requirements to work on files that big?

Well, it is possible that a pc with usb 1 on the motherboard can be decent. I have seen a couple like that with p4s...but they were all in the 1-2ghz range, so not that fast. Most likely the machine is going to be old though, usb2 has been included on newer pcs for some time now. I have no doubt that britt777's machine meets minimum requirements for photoshop. But there is a big difference between minimum requirements and running well. I consider my machine to be fast and it struggles with 16bit aRGB files once I start adding layers and such. Of course everyone's defenition of good performance is different and it is allot of what you are used to. I am pretty impatient waiting on photoshop...I actually think if I added up all the time spent in processing more of my time is spent waiting for photoshop to complete actions, then I do clicking those actions.

[jfrancho]

Well, it is possible that a pc with usb 1 on the motherboard can be decent. I have seen a couple like that with p4s...but they were all in the 1-2ghz range, so not that fast. Most likely the machine is going to be old though, usb2 has been included on newer pcs for some time now. I have no doubt that britt777's machine meets minimum requirements for photoshop. But there is a big difference between minimum requirements and running well. I consider my machine to be fast and it struggles with 16bit aRGB files once I start adding layers and such. Of course everyone's defenition of good performance is different and it is allot of what you are used to. I am pretty impatient waiting on photoshop...I actually think if I added up all the time spent in processing more of my time is spent waiting for photoshop to complete actions, then I do clicking those actions.That was what I thought. This is exactly the reason I upgraded this past spring. (See here, yep, it's a dually (http://plan-b.smugmug.com/photos/22732565-S.jpg)) It wasn't as bad as I thought, and I saved quite a bit by not resorting to the "usual suspects" and their bogus packages. I agree, there are some POWERFUL features in PS that aren't very enjoyable to run, if you have pc that isn't up to the task. But even my old laptop with 1.4 GHz mobile processor wasn't too bad. That just got replaced by a Dell Lattitude 810 (2 GHz), although this primarily for writing and testing code.

[britt777]

how often do you all buy new computers?.....dang.

[tommykjensen]

how often do you all buy new computers?.....dang.

You don't want to know ;)

[Orlin]

I maybe missing something although I just purchased a 20D and it came with the EOS viewer utility that converts RAW to TIFF or Jpeg. The problem I have is if I convert to TIFF, the files are so HUGE it takes quite a bit of time to open, adjust and perform PS adjustments. Am I doing something wrong? I did close all other programs and have upgraded RAM.

[jfrancho]

how often do you all buy new computers?.....dang.I get a new laptop every two years. In the past I built my own desktops, but this round I thought I'd spoil myself and have one built for me. My desktops have lasted about 4-5 years each. Relative to current systems of the time, they screamers when new, and slow as a dog when they are outdated. I live with the slowness a little longer than most, I think!

[Sathi]

I maybe missing something although I just purchased a 20D and it came with the EOS viewer utility that converts RAW to TIFF or Jpeg. The problem I have is if I convert to TIFF, the files are so HUGE it takes quite a bit of time to open, adjust and perform PS adjustments. Am I doing something wrong? I did close all other programs and have upgraded RAM.

Your not doing anything wrong, TIFF files off the 20d can be very large. I have 1 gig of ram and I realize that is not nearly enough.

[ToneB]

how often do you all buy new computers?.....dang.

Alot less now that I have a digital SLR and a need for lenses:) Seriousy though I build my own desktops and usually not "bleeding edge" I spend the money on fast I/O and memory. It usually is good for 3 years, then goes to my son for surfing and IM'ing (all teenagers know how to do with computers now). I/O and memory are bottlenecks (like USB 1.1) so I look for faster ways to get the data fm one place to another. I switched to RAW this summer while shooting football camp. 670 shots of RAW + sm jpg... On 1.1 just start the download and come back another day. I found my card reader not supporting 2.0 then put in a combo card/floppy reader ($23). My motherboard supported USB2 and so did the reader. I can insert the card straight into the front of the PC w/o a reader and it rips the files right off in little time. Now I have more money to spend on lenses and not a new computer... heh heh Tony

[danedel]

I just bought an additional RAM chip for my less than six month old T42, giving it the maximum allowed for the system (2Gig) I noticed a little bit of a performance boost when batch converting RAW images. I mainly use this system to let clients view work on the spot. Its tough, and small.

[JohnnyG]

I've been trying to follow everyones instructions here and I'm wallowing in 30 feet deep of directions.:(

I have the EOS Utility running and connected to my camera (not using the reader at this time) and I can see the folder with the RAW files and they are displayed on my screen! Yea! But, I can't seem to get them off the camera and into a file somewhere.

I used to be considered an expert on Windows but this is beating the heck out of me and I'm frustrated up to here!:confused:

Is there some kind of (simple) tutorial that gets me through this? I have spent hours wading in this stuff.

[jimsolt]

I've been trying to follow everyones instructions here and I'm wallowing in 30 feet deep of directions.:(

I have the EOS Utility running and connected to my camera (not using the reader at this time) and I can see the folder with the RAW files and they are displayed on my screen! Yea! But, I can't seem to get them off the camera and into a file somewhere.

I used to be considered an expert on Windows but this is beating the heck out of me and I'm frustrated up to here!:confused:

Is there some kind of (simple) tutorial that gets me through this? I have spent hours wading in this stuff.
Here's a suggestion to get you out of your immediate predicament.

Somewhere, on your desktop for instance, create a "New Folder" Then go to the folder with your RAW files, select all of them and copy or drag them to the "New Folder." Check to see if they're there, and you can disconnect your camera.
With the exception that I use a card reader, that's pretty much what I do to download the files.

Hope this helps.

Jim

[JohnnyG]

Here's a suggestion to get you out of your immediate predicament.

Somewhere, on your desktop for instance, create a "New Folder" Then go to the folder with your RAW files, select all of them and copy or drag them to the "New Folder." Check to see if they're there, and you can disconnect your camera.
With the exception that I use a card reader, that's pretty much what I do to download the files.

Hope this helps.

Jim

Okay, thanks Jim, I managed to stumble about and get those files on my pc and I can open them in ps2 now. Now, I wonder what I'm supposed to do with them now?;)

I feel like a baby learning to crawl, not walk yet, just crawl. This is embarrasing:oops:

[jimsolt]

Okay, thanks Jim, I managed to stumble about and get those files on my pc and I can open them in ps2 now. Now, I wonder what I'm supposed to do with them now?;)

I feel like a baby learning to crawl, not walk yet, just crawl. This is embarrasing:oops:
No need for embarrassment. While crawling try to pay attention to the GOOD advice and you'll be running in no time.
Surely you can't mean PS2! Is it Elements 2 or CS2?

Jim

[JohnnyG]

No need for embarrassment. While crawling try to pay attention to the GOOD advice and you'll be running in no time.
Surely you can't mean PS2! Is it Elements 2 or CS2?

Jim

Yes I do mean PS2. Why? Did I now do something wrong again?:lol: Did I embarrass myself further? Does PS2 have something that would have made this whole debacle easier?:oops:

[jimsolt]

Yes I do mean PS2. Why? Did I now do something wrong again?:lol: Did I embarrass myself further? Does PS2 have something that would have made this whole debacle easier?:oops:
No, again nothing embarassing unless it's for me for wondering about Photoshop 2. It's just that Photoshop 2 (Photoshop version 2) was released in 1990, and was called "Fast Eddy." I'm surprised anyone still has or uses it. As you probably know the newest version, CS2 (actually version 9) was released earlier this year, and I thought you might be mis-typing the name. There is also Photoshop Elements 2, only one version back from the current one and still in wide use.

Whichever version you have, try not to think of it as your "debacle." When you are new to it, it's easy to be overwhelmed with all the information at once, but if you take it step by step it will become your friend, not your nemesis.

It's also easy to read a forum such as this one where when you ask "What time is it?", there are those posters who tell you how to make an atomic clock. Shooting an acceptable picture, getting it from your camera to your computer, and from there to a print or an image you send via the web is not brain surgery. There are some marvelous books that contain hundreds of pages of fantastic ways to make that picture better than you could have possibly imagined, but that's icing on the cake -- well worth adding, but slowly, as you understand the basics and are ready to add on.

Jim

[JohnnyG]

It is CS2, not PS2! I'm sorry again.:o I must be suffering from senility or something......

You're probably thinking; poor guy. No wonder he can't get it working, he doesn't even know which version he's using.:(

[ron_zol]

With an A610 and SD500, and two different flash cards, 512MB Sandisk ~4X and 1GB Corsair 60X, I suffered a bad multi-card reader, PQI brand. Only the first image folder was consistently readable. The second and third folders contained garbage characters rather than nicely labeled .jpg image files. With the camera connected direct to the PC the files were in tact. With another reader there was no problem.

In discovering the bad card reader, I made the mistake of "moving" the image folders to the PC, instead of "copying". I lost all but the first folder's images. I tried reading from the camera and various image recovery apps with no luck getting them back. Not sure what happened, I didn't add pics or format the card. Had I "copied" maybe I'd at least had a chance of connecting the camera and recovering them.

I noticed with the card reader, multiple folders appear, but with the camera only one folder appears. Puzzling why Windows XP sees different folder architectures when connected to the card reader versus the camera. Both are USB.

A note on the card reader, at least with Windows, be sure to first tell the computer that you're removing it, by clicking the hardware icon and selecting remove. I've pulled a card out without doing this and even though I wasn't writing to the card the flash got corrupted and I couldn't read the card with a card reader or camera. Image recovery software fortunately was able to recover them, a big thanks to the guys in .de and .nl for the great shareware.

[puttick]

1. Use a card reader

2. Download using Windows Explorer

3. Open with Pixmantec Rawshooter Essentials (free download)

Bingo