Guidance needed please.

[gmwinder]

Just got my 20D/28-135. This is my first SLR since I had a K1000 20 years ago. Had limited success but mostly in the program modes but then you're limited to JPEG and everything I read says try to shoot RAW. But then I have to set the camera and I get a little confused on what settings to use. If I'm shooting action shots (golf mostly) what is the most critical setting? (In normal lighting conditions) I'm thinking shutter speed - 1,000? Followed by aperture - 5.6? Followed by ISO 200? The shots look OK but not as sharp as some I have seen on this site. Also this week I'm going to the track (horses - my other hobby). Any suggestions for shooting this event?

Thanks,

Gazza

[ricohcam01]

Hey GM:

Can you send us an image so we can look at what you have done.

Please rememeber that if you are not careful it is easy to blow out
shiney or white surfaces. So I stop down about 1/2 to 1 full stop.
You also have to white balance. I would shoot with ISO100. But that
that is just me. LOL

[gmwinder]

When you say "stop down"..what does this mean?

[robertwgross]

A typical lens like that has a wide open aperture of maybe f/3.5. That is a workable aperture, but you can get into lots of problems (depth of field) if you always shoot wide open like that.

On the other hand, if you close the aperture by some number of stops, maybe to f/8 or f/11, you will find that the lens seems sharper. If you go too far, like f/18 and farther, then you will get other different problems from that (diffraction).

So, try to do most of your work in the middle apertures, and go to the extremes only when you have to.

---Bob Gross---

[gmwinder]

Thanks Bob...so would you suggest setting my dial on Aperture priority and getting it in the F/8 range and then adjusting the ISO and shutter speed to get the right lighting conditions? How far up with the ISO should I go before I get too much grain?

I'm planning on joining a camera club this month, but this forum is great. I've already mentioned this on other threads but I was torn between the 70S and 20D but this forum made my mind up. The Nikonians doesn't come close and as a newbie I knew I would need some guidance.

Gazza

[robertwgross]

Thanks Bob...so would you suggest setting my dial on Aperture priority and getting it in the F/8 range and then adjusting the ISO and shutter speed to get the right lighting conditions? How far up with the ISO should I go before I get too much grain?


Av mode is one way to get there.

Personally, I find P mode more convenient. By dialing, it will show you different combinations of aperture and shutter that will work to the same general exposure.

Digital cameras don't have grain. They show color noise. As you crank up the ISO, you get more and more color noise. That is one thing that I really like about my 20D, I can shoot almost everything at ISO 400 without even giving a thought to any color noise. I start thinking about it with ISO 800 and above.

Besides, most color noise can be processed out, so going to a high ISO to get the shot is probably more important. If you can't get the shot at all, then it doesn't matter if the color noise is good or bad. Assuming that you are hand-holding, then you should know what kind of shutter speeds you can handle with that lens (focal length, IS or no IS, etc.). Assuming you know your lens, then you should know what kind of depth of field you are going to get with any aperture. All of these compromises run through your brain when you are dialing back and forth in P mode.

---Bob Gross---

[gmwinder]

Here is a picture I took this evening:

Evening light - shady
f/5.0
1/125 sec
focal length 75mm
ISO 400
28-135 IS
Tripod

To me it looks "grainy"?

[Hellashot]

Basically your shutter speed will determine your appeture and ISO. Choose whether you want a certain shutter speed or a certain appeture for a required DOF (maybe use DOF calculator.) Use the lowest ISO that will allow your other 2 settings to take place.

And you probably don't as high as 1/1000 shutter speed.

[robertwgross]

Let's discuss the shot. What do you think caused the graininess?

Is that the full frame of the shot? I'm thinking it is not. I'm thinking that you cropped one small piece out of the whole frame (but I could be wrong). Anyway, if that is the case, then you've got limited resolution causing the graininess. There's probably more.

Were the tripod and camera rock-solid? Maybe with a remote shutter cord to eliminate camera shake.

---Bob Gross---

[Hellashot]

Here is a picture I took this evening:

Evening light - shady
f/5.0
1/125 sec
focal length 75mm
ISO 400
28-135 IS
Tripod

To me it looks "grainy"?

Shot with what camera? If an image turns out dark "as shot" before adjustment even though it was properly exposed per the light meter at the time of capture - the image will likely appear a little grainy.

I had an ISO 200 shot that my flash hadn't recharge so it hardly got a flash. The as-shot appearance during raw conversion was 99% black, but I was able to raise the exposure during the conversion but ended up with a grainy image comparable to ISO 800 on my Drebel.

[robertwgross]

Shot with what camera?

The original poster said it was a 20D.

---Bob Gross---

[gmwinder]

Bob...yes I did crop te image...I'm really having a hard time with this 1.6 conversion. What I see in my viewfinder is only a fraction of the image I get on the file so I'm having to crop. The picture in its full size does not look that bad but I just want the bird...maybe a bigger zoom lens? Obviously I can't get that close to the feeder...I'm about 10' feet away

I was using a solid tripod with remote shutter release.

I'll try the shot again tomorrow using the P mode with F/8 and see what ISO and shutter speed comes up.

Thanks for the help.

Gazza

[SkipD]

Bob...yes I did crop te image...I'm really having a hard time with this 1.6 conversion. What I see in my viewfinder is only a fraction of the image I get on the file so I'm having to crop. The picture in its full size does not look that bad but I just want the bird...maybe a bigger zoom lens? Obviously I can't get that close to the feeder...I'm about 10' feet awayWhat problem are you having with the "1.6 conversion"? If the only SLR camera you have is the 20D, all you need to understand is that 31mm is the "standard lens" focal length (akin to the 50mm lens on a 35mm camera). All other lens choices are based on the 31mm being the standard for the sensor size in your camera. You can totally forget about what lenses do on a 35mm camera.

In my opinion, camera manufacturers have done most photographers a huge dis-service by publishing the "crop factor" value and getting everybody to attempt to think in 35mm camera terms when it isn't a 35mm camera in your hands. Nobody does that when you have a 6x6cm medium format camera, for example.

The 20D does take in a little more of the subject than you see in the viewfinder, but that shouldn't be a real problem.

Let's get back to the focal length issue, though. You took a shot of the hummingbird with a 75mm lens while 10 feet from the bird. Let's assume that you want the image to be four times bigger (in each direction, horizontally and vertically, not in AREA) while taking the shot from the same place (or distance). Simply multiply the 75mm by four, and you will arrive at 300mm. That, then, would be the lens you want to do the photo with the magnification that you desire. In reality, though, you might really want something longer than that. A good recommendation for you might be the Canon 100-400mm zoom lens.

Another option for the hummingbird is to put the camera on a tripod, set up everything in manual, and use a long remote release cord to trip the camera two feet from the bird.

[gmwinder]

Skip...I think I'm getting it. I woke up this morning @ 3am thinking that since my longest lens is the 28-135 what I need is either a longer lens - such as the 100-400 (already looking) or get closer to the feeder. I have the remote shutter release, so now I need the extension cable.

Thanks again for the tips.

Gazza

[Jon, The Elder]

Hey Gazza - don't sell that 28/135 short. It gives me darned good stuff !!

[SkipD]

I have the remote shutter release, so now I need the extension cable.The Canon remote shutter release (RS-80N3) or its clones (like the $9.98 switch found on ebay) have three wires between the switch and the plug. You can cut the cable on one on of the remote switch assemblies, and install a mini-stereo plug on one of the cut ends and a matching socket on the other. Then, you can use either commercially or made-up extension cables in between the new plug/socket. I would suspect that even up to 100 feet would work just fine, though for a long one I would use shielded cable for the extension. If you want the original length, just plug the new plug into the new socket.

[gmwinder]

Here is a close up I took tonight using the P mode - much sharper it seems.

F/5.6
1/125
ISO400
135mm