Digital Rebel XT Sports photography focus

[JohnP37]

I'm a very amateur photographer and have been "drafted" to be the "official" photographer and webmaster for my daughter's travel soccer league ( www.freedominferno.com (http://www.freedominferno.com) ). I bought a Digital Rebel XT, a monopod, and an EF 75-300mm III zoom lens. However, I am not happy with the sharpness of the pictures I am taking, particularly at the 300mm end. I have been doing some reading and experimenting, but am still not happy. I have tried the plain Sports mode, then tried Shutter priority so that I can set the autofocus to the center element only. Then I tried switching to servo mode for the autofocus. Then I tried increasing the ISO to increase the sensitivity so that I could use a smaller aperture to achieve greater depth of field at the longer zooms.

I assume my results are due to my inexperience. I would appreciate any assistence. I am also wondering how much of the problem is due to lens quality.

Thanks in advance for your help!

John

[tim]

Welcome to POTN :)

That lens isn't great, especially at 300mm, i've read. The way to find out is to stick on a tripod (or hold it very still in some way) and focus on something that's not moving.

A good lens for sports would probably be the 100-400 L IS, but that thing costs about the same as the camera.

[JohnP37]

Tim,

Thanks for the welcome and advice. I will try that.

[robertwgross]

A good lens for sports would probably be the 100-400 L IS, but that thing costs about the same as the camera.

Tim, that is the same thing that I was thinking when I read the same post. That lens is kind of big and heavy, but its versatility is high, especially for sports where the action goes far away and also up close.

---Bob Gross---

[JohnP37]

Other than buying a $1300 lens...am I headed on the right track with the settings? Namely, higher ISO, shutter speed 1/500th or greater, Servo-focus, only use center AF point? What other settings should I be concerned about?

[JakeC]

Sounds like you're on the right track John, I'd also experiment with all focus points set in ai-servo if you are tracking a single player. As for depth of field you don't want too much in sport as background elements can become very distracting. Smaller apertures also mean less light to assist with AF, and with a non USM lens like the 75-300 you need all the light you can get.

Without buying an expensive lens, consider a new or used Canon 100-300 4.5/5.6 USM, these are probably the best of the consumer zooms, just behind would be a good copy of the Sigma 70-300 4/5.6 APO. If you're on the sidelines I'd also consider a 50mm F1.8 too. It's a cheap, super sharp, fast little lens that will yield professional looking results if you can get close enough.

G'luck with it and share your results

[c3p1]

John,
We are in the same exact boat. Just bought the rebel XT and barely shot off 100 pictures before we were drafted as the team photographer for my daughters travel soccer team(U10)! You are not alone! LOL.
So we are trying to learn. My wife takes most of the pictures as I assist the coach on the other sideline. We have the Sigma 75-300 APO. My best advice is to keep shooting and get a big card!
We had a weekend tournament and my wife shot just over 400 pictures (I would unload the pictures after the game, so she had plenty of room). While we have many usable pictures, they are not extra sharp. I am trying to work some in photoshop.
Also, I have read that the lens has better sharpness at 200mm vs 300, so she has been trying to keep it at that length and shoot more on what is on her side of the field.
I find that something in the picture is in focus, just not necessarily what you want in focus! So there is hope! Good luck and keep shooting. I hope to get some pictures out next week.
Good luck! Paul

[JohnP37]

Thanks Jake, Bob, and Tim for the advice. What a great forum!

I'll continue to experiment and look into a better lens. You can see pics I've already taken at www.freedominferno.com and go to the Albums and Fun page and select different albums to view. Most photos cropped and adjusted using Photoshop Elements 3.0.

Thanks again guys!

John

[JohnP37]

Paul...thanks for your input...I missed your post before I posted my last. I do use a 2.0GB card with a 1.0GB back up. I also shoot about 250 pics per game. We had a tourny in Gettysburg, PA last weekend and I have only gone through 5 of the 6 games (see the site refed in my last post). I'll take note of the 200mm setting and see if I notice an improvement. I also notice that generally, something in the shot is in pretty sharp focus, but many times not the player of interest. Also, when the player of interest is in good focus relative to the rest of the shot, it is just not as sharp as I would expect.

Oh, I forgot to ask. What is different about the "USM" lenses.

[Tom Reid]

Hey John...your photos look pretty good. I may take this discussion in a differant direction and hopefully not steering you in the worng direction!!

If it's overall sharpness you want you may need to use manual mode with a combination of a fast shutter speed and a smaller aperture (bigger number F stop). The light meters in these new Canon's are pretty good so pick the right combination to center the light meter. If you're not familiar have a read of the manual and if no luck there come back here and one of us can explain. I think the Sports Mode selects the ISO speed and then aperture based on the shutter speed it wants to use to give you a good exposure (not too bright, not to dark). There is a good chance the aperture it picks is probably open too much (smaller number F stop) to afford overall sharpness. A photograph needs more than just simple focusing of the lens to give you a crisp looking photo. In manual mode you get to pick the shutter speed, aperture and ISO "film speed". Hope I haven't confused you.

[rmpcanon]

Two suggestions:

1. Look at the grass to check the plane of focus. If the grass looks sharpest right under the primary subject, your focus probably is OK; if the grass looks sharpest in front of or behind the primary subject, you have a focus problem (either camera or operator).

2. If the focus is OK, the lack of sharpness might be due to camera shake. What shutter speed was used? With a tele lens, the shutter speed should be 1/(focal length) MAXIMUM, to minimize camera shake. Also, don't forget that with EOS cameras and lenses there is a 1.6x factor for lens focal lengths (i.e. -- the lenses function at approximately 1.6 times their nominal focal length); hence a 200mm lens really functions as a 320mm lens, and the shutter speed therefore should be set at 1/500 instead of 1/250.

[eos-rob-uk]

This lens like most will give a much sharper picture at F8 or above from 200-300mm, so upping the iso is all you can do but you will still get some great pictures, just pratice

RoB B

[johnnybfan]

[quote=JohnP37]I bought a Digital Rebel XT, a monopod, and an EF 75-300mm III zoom lens. However, I am not happy with the sharpness of the pictures I am taking, particularly at the 300mm end.

John, I also shoot sports - high school tennis, softball, and soccer - and I have the EF 75-300mm IS zoom lens. I handhold everything (almost ) and really like my lens. Sharp, crisp shots are the rule, not the exception. I did shoot Wednesday in a 15-20 mph wind and had to use the fence for support for most of my shots. Of course this is the day I left my monopod at home. I have to get used to the monopod, though - I know it will improve some of my shots.
Mostly though, it just takes time and practice. Before long you'll notice how much better you've gotten. Good luck!

[JohnP37]

Hey John...your photos look pretty good. I may take this discussion in a differant direction and hopefully not steering you in the worng direction!!

If it's overall sharpness you want you may need to use manual mode with a combination of a fast shutter speed and a smaller aperture (bigger number F stop). The light meters in these new Canon's are pretty good so pick the right combination to center the light meter. If you're not familiar have a read of the manual and if no luck there come back here and one of us can explain. I think the Sports Mode selects the ISO speed and then aperture based on the shutter speed it wants to use to give you a good exposure (not too bright, not to dark). There is a good chance the aperture it picks is probably open too much (smaller number F stop) to afford overall sharpness. A photograph needs more than just simple focusing of the lens to give you a crisp looking photo. In manual mode you get to pick the shutter speed, aperture and ISO "film speed". Hope I haven't confused you.
Tom,

I did switch to manual mode (shutter priority). I usually set the shutter speed to 1/500 or faster. At last weekend's tournament, I shot 4 games at ISO 400 and the last 2 games at ISO 800 so that I could do exactly what you said, use a smaller aperture, thinking I needed a greater depth of field at the longer focal lengths. The results were still marginal, that is, primary subject still not sharp, with too many background elements in (reasonable) focus. What I really want to achieve is: primary subject in sharp focus; background elements in soft focus.

So given all of the advice I have received so far (thanks again everyone), I need to 1)do some controlled test shots with my existing lens at various focal lengths to evaluate lens quality; 2)continue to experiment with settings to balance shutter speed and aperture to freeze the action yet have a resonable depth of field; and 3)depending on the results of 1), take shots from various locations around the field so that I am not relying on the lens to get me close to the action.

Cheers,

John

[JohnP37]

[quote=JohnP37]I bought a Digital Rebel XT, a monopod, and an EF 75-300mm III zoom lens. However, I am not happy with the sharpness of the pictures I am taking, particularly at the 300mm end.

John, I also shoot sports - high school tennis, softball, and soccer - and I have the EF 75-300mm IS zoom lens. I handhold everything (almost ) and really like my lens. Sharp, crisp shots are the rule, not the exception. I did shoot Wednesday in a 15-20 mph wind and had to use the fence for support for most of my shots. Of course this is the day I left my monopod at home. I have to get used to the monopod, though - I know it will improve some of my shots.
Mostly though, it just takes time and practice. Before long you'll notice how much better you've gotten. Good luck!
Jim,

I started using the monopod a few weeks ago. It makes a big difference for me in not only reducing camera shake, but also reducing fatigue (shooting 200+ shots per game), and (I think) improving shot framing. I seem to be getting better framed shots, although that could also be because I am getting more practice ;-).

[Tom Reid]

John is sounds to me like the focus point may be an issue if you've experimented with depth of field. What are you using for a focus point setting?

If you haven't already tried, select the center point and keep that point on the forward part of your moving subject while panning. Page 73 and 74 of the manual. That's what I use for hockey and soccer. I also use the continuous shooting mode and snap off at least a half dozen shots. All that and the right shutter and aperture should, with practise, give you the results you want. One more thing, if you don't want to go full manual, try the aperture priority setting. Crank that puppy to the largest opening (smallest number), set the center focus point and continuous drive mode and give her a shot. Let us know how thins turns out.

[JohnP37]

John is sounds to me like the focus point may be an issue if you've experimented with depth of field. What are you using for a focus point setting?

If you haven't already tried, select the center point and keep that point on the forward part of your moving subject while panning. Page 73 and 74 of the manual. That's what I use for hockey and soccer. I also use the continuous shooting mode and snap off at least a half dozen shots. All that and the right shutter and aperture should, with practise, give you the results you want. One more thing, if you don't want to go full manual, try the aperture priority setting. Crank that puppy to the largest opening (smallest number), set the center focus point and continuous drive mode and give her a shot. Let us know how thins turns out.
Tom,

I have selected the center point for the focus and the continuous shooting mode. Now, I haven't tried aperture priority...I have been using shutter priority set to 1/500th or faster to ensure that I can freeze the action. I will also now try aperture priority.

After reading all of the advice in this forum and online reviews of the lens I am using (Canon EF 75-300mm, f4-5.6, III), I am begining to believe that much of my problem is caused by shooting at 300mm, which by all online accounts, this lens is not well suited. As I look at pictures I know I shot at the near end of the zoom range, they are sharper.

My daughter has 2 games next weekend, so I will have plenty of opportunity to try all of the suggestions you kind folks have provided.

Thanks again,

John

[stowman2]

See I would set your ISO to 400 and in AV mode put it to F8. That I think you would get the sharpest shots. You should still get a high shutter speed with the ISO at 400.

[nater]

Tom,

I did switch to manual mode (shutter priority). I usually set the shutter speed to 1/500 or faster. At last weekend's tournament, I shot 4 games at ISO 400 and the last 2 games at ISO 800 so that I could do exactly what you said, use a smaller aperture, thinking I needed a greater depth of field at the longer focal lengths. The results were still marginal, that is, primary subject still not sharp, with too many background elements in (reasonable) focus. What I really want to achieve is: primary subject in sharp focus; background elements in soft focus.


Actually, Manual mode and Shutter Priority mode are two different things. Shutter Priority means you select the shutter speed, and the camera selects the aperture based on the light reading each time you snap a shot. But if you're shooting in the same conditions for an extended period of time, you don't need the camera to do this. You should manually set both the shutter speed and the aperture -- using Manual mode.

1 - Turn the camera mode dial to "M".
2 - Hold down the Av button on the back while turning your dial to select the widest aperture (for the shallowest DOF and most out-of-focus backgrounds).
3 - Now turn the dial (without holding Av button) to change the shutter speed. Watch through your viewfinder to see when the "exposure scale" hits the middle (while pointing the camera at a typical subject). When the bar is in the middle of the exposure scale, you have the "proper exposure." If your shutter speed winds up to be slower than 1/500, then bump up your ISO and set the shutter speed again.
4 - Using this setting will give you the most consistent results. You should only need to change it as the lighting conditions change, so keep an eye on the exposure scale to make sure that most shots appear close to the middle.

edit: This method works best for lenses with constant maximum aperture -- which yours is not (f/4-5.6). So in Step 2, you should select the "safest" wide-open aperture along that range, which is f/5.6. If you know you're not going to zoom all the way out to 300mm, you might be able to get by with f/5.0.

[Ronald S. Jr.]

erm....he said he has an xt..as i do. I also have the 100-400mm f/4.5-5.6L IS USM..which is quite orgasmic. However, the lens, new, is at cheapest $500 more than the camera. I must say, though...The two together is quite an amazing pair. I did a shoot for a kid's soccer team once with it...fantastic results. Plus, the extra light XT somewhat sets off the 3.11 lbs. of the L glass.

[JohnP37]

Nater,

Ahhh, I confused Basic Zone with Creative Zone...in my mind I keep refering to Creative Zone as Manual mode (even though I know that is only one mode in the Creative Zone. I will have to try this mode as well. I did try it briefly, but was not happy with the results. But now that I think about it, it was during an evening game where the light continued to fade and I wasn't proficient in setting the aperture and shutter speed while zooming. I will try this mode at this coming weekend's games, which are in the afternoon.

Thanks,

John

[JohnP37]

All,

I shot two more games this past weekend and am much happier with the results. I used the Av mode with the aperture set generally around f5-5.6, ISO to 400 or 800 depending on the light (during the games the sun was popping in and out), which gave me shutter speeds around 1/1000 or shorter. I used AI-Servo with the center focus point only and tried to keep the zoom to 200 or less. This meant that I moved along the sidelines more to get closer to the players. I also used a monopod, which seems to help with framing when shooting bursts.

Please check out the results at www.freedominferno.com and go to the Albums and Fun page. The top two albums have shots I took at this past weekend's games.

I used Photoshop Elements 3.0 for cropping and correcting. I seem to use the Shadows/Highlights function a lot to brighten up the players faces (I guess since they almost always have their heads down).

I would appreciate any critiques...am I on the right path? I'm still considering a better lens.

[c3p1]

John, Great job!!! These are much better than the first set of pictures. You are doing a great job of capturing the action!
I am also learning through these posts as well, thanks!

Paul

[JohnP37]

Paul,

Thanks! POTN is great...I don't think I would have "gotten it" by reading a book or manual.

Good luck to you!

John

[Tom Reid]

Nice shots John.