Customers-CD's and changing copyright photos

[denise69]

OK, So here is my question.
I give customers a CD w/their finished images and my copyright symbol w/my business name on every photo.
My Copyright is also embedded in my files.
I allow my customers to print these photos on their own. I supply a print release to them.

Question: Can these files be altered by them if they want to since they have the disk?
How should i do this different to protect myself?
HELP!!!!!!!

[gonzogolf]

If they have a .jpg on a disk and they have photoshop they can pretty much do as they wish with them. Whats to stop them? I wonder what you are protecting yourself from though, you give them a print release so what else are you worried about?

[Christopher Steven b]

What are you concerned a hypothetical client might do ?

[PeteA]

Potentially they could change the copyright information on the images.

If you have the original raws it wouldn't stand up in court if you needed to prosecute them for misusing the photo.

If you watermark every photo I don't see an issue.

[joedlh]

Does your print release and/or contract specify limitations on their rights? If not, then the sky's the limit, I'm afraid. If you do specify what they can and can't do with the prints in your contract, you can always chase them down if you become aware that they have broken the agreement. However, that depends on you discovering such use and being willing to expend the effort and expense for very little recompense. You might consider registering the copyright for the images in case you ever have to take them to court after learning that they've used your property to launch an expensive marketing campaign for a major brand of sneakers.

[adam8080]

Yes, the files can be altered, and if you are worried about that, then don't put them on a CD for them. If you don't care to make money from prints, but don't want your photos changed, offer prints at your price and give them a small water marked digital image to share online.

[denise69]

my concern is that they are altering the photos in ways, i would not have done. cropping from one photo and pasting it to another.
then posting them in a common area with others i have done and having them look as if i did them.
taking a photo and applying a very cheap, easy, simple yellow tone to a photo, i would not do.

SO, how can i change this?
What would you recommend?
Not giving the disk? However, it's huge in the area i live, customers love it.

[denise69]

I do have a print release, it does not specify altering.

I am looking for suggestions.
I would like to have something in place for the new year. SO, any constructive suggestions are welcomed!!
thanks!!!

[denise69]

If they have a .jpg on a disk and they have photoshop they can pretty much do as they wish with them. Whats to stop them? I wonder what you are protecting yourself from though, you give them a print release so what else are you worried about?

I am seeing photos altered in such a way that it does not represent my work.
That's what I am worried about.
I haven't had an issue with this until recently and i wanted to get some advice as to how to handle it before it gets out of hand.

[gonzogolf]

You can include it in a customer agreement, but enforcing it would be almost impossible and certainly not worth the legal action to back it up.

[Christopher Steven b]

my concern is that they are altering the photos in ways, i would not have done. cropping from one photo and pasting it to another.
then posting them in a common area with others i have done and having them look as if i did them.
taking a photo and applying a very cheap, easy, simple yellow tone to a photo, i would not do.

SO, how can i change this?
What would you recommend?
Not giving the disk? However, it's huge in the area i live, customers love it.

You cannot prevent them from altering--even if you changed your model such that you only provide prints. What would stop them from scanning them at high-res and altering the images in any way they pleased. With this method there would be no copyright info in the file.

[denise69]

You can include it in a customer agreement, but enforcing it would be almost impossible and certainly not worth the legal action to back it up.

I do have some things in a customer agreement as far as them using them on Facebook and such.
However, have yet to run into this.

Any suggestions as to how else to handle it?

[denise69]

So, there really is no protection, realistically. Correct?

With all of this being said, what about the local grocery store scanner, is the store responsible for checking for copyright and print release?

[RDKirk]

If you give digital images to private clients (as opposed to business clients), you have to accept the fact that they're pretty much going to do whatever they have the technical acumen to do. And they will even do things they don't have the technical acumen to do...very well. For instance, even if you give them only small, low-resolution images, that's not going to prevent them from making a 16x20 from it...and showing it with your name on it. They'll just blame you for the lousy quality.

There's nothing you can do to prevent that except by rendering the image unsuitable for basic viewing at all. If you plan to sell digital images, you have to design your product philosophy to allow for the fact that you won't have any control afterward.

[RDKirk]

What would stop them from scanning them at high-res and altering the images in any way they pleased.


Heavy texturizing. Linen texture works well.

[denise69]

If you give digital images to private clients (as opposed to business clients), you have to accept the fact that they're pretty much going to do whatever they have the technical acumen to do. And they will even do things they don't have the technical acumen to do...very well. For instance, even if you give them only small, low-resolution images, that's not going to prevent them from making a 16x20 from it...and showing it with your name on it. They'll just blame you for the lousy quality.

There's nothing you can do to prevent that except by rendering the image unsuitable for basic viewing at all. If you plan to sell digital images, you have to design your product philosophy to allow for the fact that you won't have any control afterward.

UGH. That is what I was afraid of.

[Christopher Steven b]

No protection, but there is deterrence (via making clear what they are licensed to do within a contract). That is often enough. Also--put this in perspective and consider the likelihood of your actually losing business because of something a client might do with their photos.

[gonzogolf]

I do have some things in a customer agreement as far as them using them on Facebook and such.
However, have yet to run into this.

Any suggestions as to how else to handle it?
Just add a clause that states that the images are the work of the photographer. Any alteration to the content of the images is prohibited. End user may resize the image as long as resizing does not change the original content. Cropping is allowed as long as the copyright symbol is included intact. Something along those lines.

[denise69]

No protection, but there is deterrence (via making clear what they are licensed to do within a contract). That is often enough. Also--put this in perspective and consider the likelihood of your actually losing business because of something a client might do with their photos.

Right. yeah, I suppose that makes sense, as far as losing business because of something they did.
Funny, i had a customer of mine say they seen the photos and knew it wasn't something I did.

Do you have a 'contract'?
IF so, what is all included in it?

thanks for the input!

[denise69]

Just add a clause that states that the images are the work of the photographer. Any alteration to the content of the images is prohibited. End user may resize the image as long as resizing does not change the original content. Cropping is allowed as long as the copyright symbol is included intact. Something along those lines.


GREAT!
that is worded very well.
THANKS!!!!!!
I appreciate your time and info!

[Christopher Steven b]

Right. yeah, I suppose that makes sense, as far as losing business because of something they did.
Funny, i had a customer of mine say they seen the photos and knew it wasn't something I did.

Do you have a 'contract'?
IF so, what is all included in it?

thanks for the input!

1.Copyright and Usage
— Copyright in all works associated with this assignment shall be owned by the Photographer
— Upon full payment the photos returned (henceforth PHOTOS) are licensed for use by the Client including adjusting for print, printing, duplicating and publishing to the web in perpetuity.
— The Client may not, without consent from the Photographer, sell or use for commercial purposes any of the PHOTOS, nor can they extend these rights to a third party

Note that this was not written up for legal protection but so that the client and I are on the same page about expectations and to deter. I find the idea of being sued or chasing after clients because of an image they photoshopped or something ridiculous.

edit: yes, the additional part from the comment above would be a good idea--'altering is prohibited'.
edit 2: language of clause tweaked

[denise69]

Copyright and Usage
— Copyright in all works associated with this assignment shall be owned by the Photographer
— Upon full payment the Client is licensed to use the photos returned (henceforth PHOTOS) and may print, adjust for print, duplicate and publish to the web, the PHOTOS, in perpetuity
— The Client may not, without consent from the Photographer, sell or use for commercial purposes any of the PHOTOS, nor can they extend these rights to a third party

Note that this was not written up for legal protection but so that the client and I are on the same page about expectations and to deter. I find the idea of being sued or chasing after clients because of an image they photoshopped or something ridiculous.

I agree. I have no intentions of chasing some one down, however, something worded correctly would probably be enough for most people, to deter that.
THANKS!

[cdifoto]

Sounds like a lot of worry over what's ultimately a non-issue.

[amfoto1]

I'd say it a little differently and add a few things....



1.Copyright and Usage

— Copyright of all works associated with this assignment are and shall be retained by the Photographer and/or Photographer's assigns.

— Upon receipt of full payment under all the terms of this agreement the photos returned (henceforth PHOTOS) shall be licensed in perpetuity to the Client(s) for personal use by the Client, to include personal display in printed or electronic form, and allows for minor adjustments in preparation for printing, duplicating and publishing electronically. Printing for personal use may be done by a third party printing service of the Client's choosing.

— The Client may not, without written consent from the Photographer, offer, sell or use for commercial purposes any of the PHOTOS, nor can they extend, sell or transfer any of these usage rights to any third party.

- Any alteration or modification of images (beyond minor color correction, sharpening, cropping, sizing, etc. in preparation for printing) requires written consent from the photographer.


But, realistically, it's pretty hard to prevent modifications and alterations, once you hand over the images on a CD. What a client (and a court) might consider "minor" and permissable, you might consider excessive and unacceptible.