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View Full Version : Epson R1800 - How I got it to print correctly!


billhercus
6th of December 2010 (Mon), 14:05
I have had the Epson R1800 for some years now and have kept the photo paper and ink manufacturers' profits healthy throughout this period trying to get prints that match the screen.

I have now achieved a satisfactory print quality, with no help from Epson and by ignoring their settings.

Here is what I did after years of frustration.

Bought a Spyder Screen Calibration kit. Not much visual difference but at least I knew it wasn't the screen!

Purchased the Spyder3PrintSR to produce profiles. Right away it became obvious that without any printer correction (ICM off - NO colour adjustment) it was outputting colour swatches that were out of gamut and the software refused to accept some of the 225 colours carefully scanned.

Every thing I have read about Epson Printers and Adobe Photographic software makes it quite clear that, if you are using icc profiles you set ICM - No colour adjustment and the profile is activated in the Adobe software NOT the printer.

A bit angry now (yet again) I thought, 'This is hopeless,' but decided in desperation to try another non recommended setting i.e., Color Controls then Adobe RGB.

Immediately, all the 225 colours were scanned, no problem and the colours were closely matched when scanned/actual were compared.

In fact, I would probably have been reasonably happy w/o any Spyder calibration at all!

The prints did look a little dark but Matt K in the Lightroom Forum (I think) explains this is a bright screen v. paper issue and easily solved by making a virtual copy and increasing the brightnerss a little. He even supplies free presets for that purpose which work superbly.

It took a long time but I have got there. I don't use Epson ink but a British Co called JetTec (no association) and they make a fine ink which is pretty trouble free.

If anyone elase has a problem with this old, but perfectly fine A3+ printer, do throw away all the current advise about ICM Off and go Adobe RGB. Worked a treat for me!

tonylong
6th of December 2010 (Mon), 14:53
So, I'm not entirely clear on what you are describing here...when you say you switched to Adobe RGB, what software were you in to make that switch? In other words, were you switching, setting, converting your image to a "working color space" in an application like Photoshop or were you setting a printing profile that you might use in, say, Photoshop to Soft Proof?

Another question would be what results would you get with the OEM Epson ink? Would you have to create a new profile?

juiceman72
6th of December 2010 (Mon), 16:56
Were you using aftermarket ink with Epson ICC profiles?

WesDigi
6th of December 2010 (Mon), 17:06
A bit angry now (yet again) I thought, 'This is hopeless,' but decided in desperation to try another non recommended setting i.e., Color Controls then Adobe RGB.

Hi Bill, I appreciate you posting re this issue with Epson printers. I am exactly not sure what you mean by the above quote. I guess you we should select color controls in Epson printer under color management settings. Where are you selecting Adobe RGB? Is Adobe RGB an option in the printer management or in the software you are using to print? I look forward to your reply.

billhercus
7th of December 2010 (Tue), 07:00
Sorry if I did not make myself clear guys, I'll try again.

This statement concerns any printing that comes from any programme which utilises icc profiles when using the EPSON Stylus Photo R1800 printer. Any programme. For me that is Lightroom 3 and Photoshop Elements 8.0 but it will apply to any software with Color Management, able to utilise icc profiles.

Epson, and every other 'authoratative' source of printing information makes the point that when using these profiles ANY form of colour management must be turned OFF IN THE PRINTER DRIVER and come solely from the programme, e.g., Lightroom. If any form of colour correction is done in the printer, it will 'combine' with the SELECTED colour correction (profile) in the software and cause incorrect profiling. In effect you will be using two forms of colour correction together which will not work, .... allegedly.

For this reason, EVERY source of info, including EPSON recommend the R1800 printer (and many other EPSON printers) be set to ICM, then the box 'OFF (No Color Adjustment)' is ticked and the relevant icc profile is then selected in the software programme (for me, Lightroom or Elements.)

I did that for years and, quite frankly continued to get poor results despite many trials.

Using Spyder calibration convinced me that the printer was producing some quite strange colors with these settings.

Finally, I ignored all the recommendations and, instead of switching the printer color adjustment OFF, as recommended, I selected Color Controls then in the dropdown box, Adobe RGB - Gamma stayed at 1.8. Subsequent calibration with Spyder3Print showed that the calibration sheets of 225 colors printed with these settings produced colors very close to the final calibrated print output.

NOTE: These settings are done in the PRINTER software, i.e., the printer driver. The Programme (i.e., Photoshop, Gimp, Lightroom etc.) settings involve selecting the relevant icc Profile e.g. SPR1800 D-S Matte Paper, in the photo programme software.


After years of disappointment with 'Recommended' settings, for me the Epson Stylus Photo R1800 works with ICM selected and then Adobe RGB from the drop down list.

If you have problems with this printer, when recommended to turn 'Color Adjustment Off' do try Adobe RGB instead'.

I am now delighted with my results.

tonylong
7th of December 2010 (Tue), 08:09
OK, interesting, I don't have the printer and so can't comment. With the printers I use I just turn color management off and use the printer profiles and OEM inks with the proper paper profiles.

sapearl
7th of December 2010 (Tue), 10:52
OK, interesting, I don't have the printer and so can't comment. With the printers I use I just turn color management off and use the printer profiles and OEM inks with the proper paper profiles.

I've been using the R1800 for about four years now and this is exactly what I've been doing; yes, the OEM inks are obnoxiously expensive but the profiles load right in with the printer, I can usually pick up the OEM papers on sale online, and the results are beautiful.

About the same time I bought the printer I'd also purchased the Eye-One Monitor calibration tool so my screen was always quite close - not absolutely perfect - but very very close to actual print output, both on my R1800 and on prints from the pro lab.

Jimmer411
7th of December 2010 (Tue), 17:01
My friends R1800 makes prints that match my screen perfectly. Epson ink + Epson paper and profiles. It sounds like you originally expected the printer to magically compensate for the differences in ink on its own.

ChasP505
7th of December 2010 (Tue), 17:57
...After years of disappointment...

Jeez... That's an awful lot of disappointment for one man to bear. It must be some kind of POTN record!

billhercus
8th of December 2010 (Wed), 07:06
Needless to say, I started with Epson Inks, Epson paper and Epson profiles. Results were poor. They are now good.

I can only reflect my personal experience as it is just possible that others may have the same problem.

Chas P. I suspect our standards of satisfaction may be a little different?

sapearl
8th of December 2010 (Wed), 07:19
Needless to say, I started with Epson Inks, Epson paper and Epson profiles. Results were poor. They are now good.

I can only reflect my personal experience as it is just possible that others may have the same problem. .....

Bill, I apologize if I missed this in one of the earlier posts..... but was your monitor calibrated right at the start when you initially used all Epson product for your output? I'm having a hard time understanding how you went through a considerable expense in supplies over a period years when your output was unsatisfactory.

billhercus
8th of December 2010 (Wed), 07:33
Sapearl,

To be honest no. But it was quite a new monitor and when I subsequently did calibrate it, the corrections were subtle and certainly not responsible for the degree of error I experienced. The corrective work took a long time because there are times in my life when other events overtake my photo hobby.

I am wondering if I purchased a rogue printer. If there was that problem with other R1800 printers, I think someone in this Forum would have responded by now.

My first Epson printer was a modest Epson Stylus Photo 890 which gave me no problems and is now owned by a very satisfied chap. It must be about 10!

sapearl
8th of December 2010 (Wed), 09:52
Sapearl,

To be honest no. But it was quite a new monitor and when I subsequently did calibrate it, the corrections were subtle and certainly not responsible for the degree of error I experienced. The corrective work took a long time because there are times in my life when other events overtake my photo hobby.....!

I know how that can be Bill - it took me a lot of fiddling and adjustment to get my monitor calibrated..... some of the changes didn't seem that great but did make a difference on the final print.... and it was only after getting a "control disk" and test print from my lab that I got things extremely close to where they should be. Calibrating did eat up a fair amount of time, and yes I agree, other things in life tend to be more important :wink:.

I don't know about the R1800 being a rogue printer - perhaps a thieving one as it seems to steal ink at every opportunity :grin:. But the results are quite gratifying, even with B/W work that I produce.

ChasP505
8th of December 2010 (Wed), 10:14
Chas P. I suspect our standards of satisfaction may be a little different?

I'm really sorry that you never realized the full potential of a reputedly superb printer. As for my own experience, I've advised several times on POTN that when starting off with a new printer, be conservative in using OEM ink and the manufacturer recommended paper to ensure immediate satisfaction with great results.. I also have absolutely no patience for defective merchandise. That's what warranties are for.

René Damkot
8th of December 2010 (Wed), 16:42
Epson, and every other 'authoratative' source of printing information makes the point that when using these profiles ANY form of colour management must be turned OFF IN THE PRINTER DRIVER and come solely from the programme, e.g., Lightroom.

That's what I do when printing to my R2880 (Epson ink, Epson or Hahnemuhle paper with the correct profiles) and I get a *very* good print to softproof match...
(Second part here: http://www.getcolormanaged.com/color-management/testprint/ )

There are some problems with Snow leopard / PSCS5 and Epson IIRC, just like there were with OSX / PSCS4 when that was just introduced though.
http://www.getcolormanaged.com/color-management/mac-osx-epson-and-photoshop-cs4/

billhercus
9th of December 2010 (Thu), 05:19
Quite Rene,

That's what everyone should do. Sadly, for some reason it did not work for me.

Now have have a very high standard of color matched prints from calibrated screen and SpyderPrint3SR produced colour profiles. I use neither Epson Ink nor paper now.

It does seem that this must be a rogue printer as no one has the faintest idea why this should be. I never managed to get any answer from Epson.

I think that's about it really and we should close this topic now.

Thanks guys.

René Damkot
9th of December 2010 (Thu), 17:11
if you're using other inks then Epsons, you must use custom profiles.
Otherwise, it's a guessing game.

sapearl
9th of December 2010 (Thu), 20:01
Glad it worked out for you Bill.

One of these days when I'm in an experimental mood and have some time I'll try out some alternative papers on the R1800. Judging by other posts on POTN there are some really excellent non-Epson papers out there that people have been really happy with. As Rene mentioned, it's just a matter of learning how to use these other profiles.

For the most part I use two of the Epson papers for my exhibit work: Premium Luster surface if I want to achieve a semi-gloss sort of look, and Velvet Fine Art if I want to impart more of a watercolor, higher saturation appearance to the print.

The shipping might by killer to the UK Bill, but I've been using these folks for a couple of years now for both and ink and paper:

http://www.atlex.com/

There paper and ink pricing is quite good.

czynot
11th of December 2010 (Sat), 16:36
I dont have a R1800 But I have R1900 printer. Disable printer ICM. Let PS manage Color. The New R1900 Out of the box with epson ink and epson paper and Epson paper ICC. The print came out pretty close to my screen (i would say 95% to what i see). Black and red are a bit darker.
I than calibrated the monitor and the printer to the paper I will be using (epson glossy). Calibrator software creat a custom paper ICC profile. I than Select this new profile when printing. The Image came out 100% to my screen.
My old RX580 with ebay CISS, Cailbrated. Print come out 95% match
My epson 2200 with Ebay CISS, calibrated. Print come out 99% match.
You CAN NOT USE third Party ink WITHOU recalibrating or use Epson ICC. Samething if you change papers. You will need to calibrate a new ICC everytime you change Paper(every batch of same paper will have minor shift) or INK. Ink color will shift over time too.
It is not hard. I have colormunki.
1) It calibrate the monitor(taking ambient light into account. Most newer Calibrator does this).
2) Program calibrate the printer(Ink to paper). Prints out a color chart. using calibrator to scan the color. Program will create a ICC profile for the paper.
I always had problems matching the print out to the monitor till I brought the colormunki. Having a calibrator does save alot of time, ink, paper and headach.