Is this inevitable with night football games?

[DOrtiz]

Greetings everyone!!

Yesterday was the first time I tried my new equipment during night football games. Last year I used a Canon 10D with the Canon 28-135 f/3.5-5.6 lens. On the high end (135mm) the lens just wasn't fast enough @f/5.6 so my shutter speeds produced nothing but blurred images and the ISO performance on the 10D past ISO800 left much to be desired.

Having said this, I purchased a Canon 20D with a Canon 70-200 f/2.8L lens this year and hoped things would be better. Well, although I'm really not very pleased with the results (as you'll soon see), I feel they're better than the results achieved with my previous equipment.

However, this is my question... Is it inevitable during night football games on a poorly lit field to inherit this noise and general poor picture quality? I can't even crop on many shots because I'll enhance the noise and some look aweful. My settings last night were ISO3200, Av mode wide open at f/2.8, 100-200mm range, no flash used and +1 EC dialed in.

Here are a few images, and again I'm not pleased as I was hoping for those silky smooth shots I'm use to seeing, but here goes. Your opinion, tips, observations, and general critique is most welcome. Please note I'm not a pro (as evident by my photos), but I'm eager to learn and try anything to improve...

1
http://i.pbase.com/v3/88/335988/1/48963742.IMG_6184.jpg
2
http://i.pbase.com/v3/88/335988/1/48963743.IMG_6195.jpg
3.
http://i.pbase.com/v3/88/335988/1/48963744.IMG_6216.jpg
4.
http://i.pbase.com/v3/88/335988/1/48963745.IMG_6222.jpg
5.
http://i.pbase.com/v3/88/335988/1/48963746.IMG_6224.jpg
6.
http://i.pbase.com/v3/88/335988/1/48963747.IMG_6245.jpg
7.
http://i.pbase.com/v3/88/335988/1/48963748.IMG_6287.JPG
8.
http://i.pbase.com/v3/88/335988/1/48963749.IMG_6334.jpg
9.
http://i.pbase.com/v3/88/335988/1/48963750.IMG_6384.jpg

Thank you for your valued feedback.

Regards,
Dave

[grego]

Quality wise, I think that's pretty good. What you can do is, if you don't mind shooting in raw, is underexpose by a little bit and clean it up once you post process.

You just have to live with the circumstances. You'll never get to be close to noise free. There'll always be some.

I have no idea what you are shooting for(selling photos to parents, newspaper, or just because you like shooting sports), but if its for the first two, it really does not matter.

Now if you are trying to add something to your portfolio, you have to get something stunning, like you would have to get at any time of the day. Then you can look past the noise. I think you did a good job though and the lens is much better than your previous one. :)

[Cadwell]

A camera needs light to work with. With not enough light, the best kit in the world isn't going to help you. From what I can see you did a pretty good job all things considered.

[Croasdail]

3200 on a 20D... I never have had anything usable at that ISO. 1600 is my limit. Based on your images, it looks like geneally you had enough headroom to come back down.

[gmen]

These are pretty good in the circumstances. Noise is inevitable but given the choice of noise or unintentional blur, I know what I prefer.

Also, I'd suggest that it's better to get the correct exposure at ISO3200 rather than choose to underexpose at ISO1600 and then try to salvage the image in PS.

---- Gavin

[Croasdail]

perhaps you can post a larger crop... these just don't look all that bad at all - but reducing does help hide noise so you may be seeing something were not seeing. My comments were based on my results from night time baseball, where the game is slower, and the increased noise was quit noticable on decent sized images.

[oloughlinc]

Have you tried running these through a program like Noise Ninja? It removes a lot of the noise.

[rrpruett]

These shots look great to me. If I could get this I would be very satisfied.

I Need some help for my first football night shoot.

I am going to shoot my first night football game tonight and was wondering if someone would have some suggestions on settings for a 20D with a 70-200 f/2.8 IS lens. I took some pictures last night at practice and on the auto mode they were horrible. I will need to set it on a manual mode and since I just got my camera three days ago I am still truing to figure it all out.

Any help would be appreciated.

Rick

[rob_97520]

I shoot football with a 10D and the same lens. Turn off the IS and shoot on AV mode. I shoot raw once it starts getting dark and will go up 3200 ISO. Noise is a real problem but using Noiseware takes care of most of it.

[JMAS]

Maybe I didn't read correctly, but hasn't anyone yet suggested Neatimage or Noise Ninja?

The 20D hides the noise much better then the 300D or 10D, but at ISO 3200, unless you're looking for artsy photos were the grain adds to the photo, you're bound to use this kind of software to clean the image.

[DOrtiz]

Hi Guys!!

Thanks for the valued feedback and suggestions. Here's all of them which I've added to a temporary directory for the school to view. I will be donating them to the school in CDROM for them to use, but will also add them on my site in case parents/friends wish to purchase any.

I'm also giving back to the school a portion of all proceeds.

Having said that, try not to fall off your chairs laughing OK?

http://www.dortizphoto.com/temp/

Regards,
Dave

PS: For the gentleman shooting football. My settings (not that they're considered the best) were: ISO3200, Av mode, f/2.8 on a 70-200 lens, various shutter speeds dependant on light, but tried for nothing under 1/400 " when possible" Tried to stay ahead of the game so the players were running toward me not sideways or away from me. Hope this helps.

[DOrtiz]

.. with layers following yesterday's football win.

http://i.pbase.com/v3/88/335988/1/48996065.Victory2.jpg

Regards,
Dave

[MDJAK]

DO, your'e nuts. Those shots are quite good. Noise is a byproduct of high ISO, whether it's digital or film.

[JMAS]

DO, your'e nuts. Those shots are quite good. Noise is a byproduct of high ISO, whether it's digital or film.

Yes.
The photos are very good!

[cosworth]

I'm amazed no one has suggested a kick ass 550/580 flash. A prime eample was found recently with my friend Jason shooting some extreme motocross jumping. He was shooting in less light, farther away (he's in a wheelchair and was high up in the stands) and he got RED EYE from his flash on a guy upside down on the bike. Oh and he was using the same lens as you!

http://www.deviantart.com/view/22616434/

zoomed out from his location:

http://members.shaw.ca/cosworth/Sequence.jpg

[Isshinharu]

Those are some really nice pics in my opinion. The only ones I see where I can notice any noise are in the back grounds of 1,2 & 7... but like everyone else said... it's inevitable at night and especially with a 3200 ISO.

Overall... awesome shots!

[Croasdail]

Hey, just something I do so I can keep things straight... not that your asking but I am going to tell you anyway.. is after each significant event, quarter change, score, etc, I take one shot of the scoreboard to document the time and the effect of the event. You have one shot that has the scoreboard at the beginning, then another one if the fourth.. but it would be nice to have one when they scored and then the final. When I am shooting hitters in baseball, I shoot the players name and stats on the scoreboard. It makes life a lot easier when going back and captioning your photos. Stuff on the web site looks great.... kids look like JV players.... good work.

[Isshinharu]

^^ That's a good idea. :D

[DOrtiz]

Hi Guys!!

Thanks for the feedback and valuable critique. By-the-way, I did shoot the score board, but it was 0-0 all the way to the end, then each team got 3 plays at the 10 yard line and we won. ;)

http://www.dortizphoto.com/temp/img_6365_std.jpg

Regards,
Dave

[Keiffer]

Dave, Please clarify on this one. Layers? I know what layers are but please explain how you did it, if that's what your talking about... with layers following yesterday's football win.

http://i.pbase.com/v3/88/335988/1/48996065.Victory2.jpg

Regards,
Dave

[DOrtiz]

Dave, Please clarify on this one. Layers? I know what layers are but please explain how you did it, if that's what your talking about.

Certainly .. 4 separate text layers, each adjusted individually.

Select text tool, place frame where you want the text (it becomes a layer) then you can edit the text and add special affects as seen.

Please note I'm new to PS and hope I'm explaining this correctly. I'm sorta learning by trial-and-error myself as I go along.

Regards,
Dave

[Keiffer]

Dave, I thought you layered for better quality and no noise? I didn't realize you layered for the text. Or did I miss something here?

[DOrtiz]

You can layer for both ..