Why you would buy a Nikon DSLR over a Canon (apparently)

[FlyingPete]

Well, I attended a morning photographic class on the weekend specialising in product shooting (of which I do quite a bit).

Anyway at the end I walked into a conversation with the instructor and one of the other students, the question: What DSLR should I buy, a Noink or Canon?

Well the instructor was driving a Noink D100 on the day, and had several Noink film bodies as well, his comment was buy a Noink because (and I quote):

Every time Canon releases a new model they change the lens mount, where as with my Nikon, I can use any of the lenses from the last 30 years

There you have it people, sell you Canon's, buy an Noink so you can use 30 year old lenses.

Later on in the piece after I had corrected him, he stunned me yet again with his Canon product prowess, when another student asked him if he should get a 20D of 350D, he said the 350D as it was a newer and far more advanced model :rolleyes:

[KevC]

Lol.
FD->EOS was *one* mount change.

[aMacFan]

Flying Pete,

I hope you got a refund on your tuition!!

[Croasdail]

My perspective on this... people recommend what they use, and Nikon has been very generous to the universities by either outright giving or heavily discounting to educational users. The cater very strongly to this market place. There was a day when the st201 was standard educational distrilbution... now it seems the D70 is. Canon has another approach... sell it on the premise that all sports shooters use them... so should you. fyi - at the game I shot this weekend there were 11 canon shooters including my self and 8 Nikon shooters. Apple has used this approach for years too with educational accounts... sell the schools, the parents will buy. Maybe I have been hanging around universities too much recently because I am going Mac again... not so sure about the nikon stuff though.

[gabrioladude]

it is ironic with regards to both the "university scene" and the misinformation about Canon. I just came back from a university reunion (won't say how many years....). There was an individual taking pictures with a Nikon D70 who I chatted up. Turns out he was a professor. He said he likes the Nikon because unlike the Canon you can reuse the lenses from his film Nikon. Someone must be out there perpetuating this myth....

[Ronald S. Jr.]

...well that's just not correct at all. My best friend uses an Elan 7e, and we switch lenses all the time.

..I know you knew that... :-\

[FlyingPete]

it is ironic with regards to both the "university scene" and the misinformation about Canon. I just came back from a university reunion (won't say how many years....). There was an individual taking pictures with a Nikon D70 who I chatted up. Turns out he was a professor. He said he likes the Nikon because unlike the Canon you can reuse the lenses from his film Nikon. Someone must be out there perpetuating this myth....

There are alot of interesting myths out there, I have heard many in camera shops from actual sales people, alot are from the 300D vs D70 days.
Customer: "I'm looking for a Digital SLR"
Shop Guy: "You want a Nikon D70"
Customer: "What about the Canon 300D?"
Shop Guy: "You don't want that, it has a 1.6x focal length multiplier, the D70 has a 1.5x that is heaps better"
Customer: "Why?"
Shop Guy: "Because the 300D is made out of plastic"
Customer: "Huh? What is the D70 made out of?"
Shop Guy: "It has a better lens than the Canon"
Customer: "Can't I buy more lenses for the 300D?"
Shop Guy "There are far more lenses available for the D70"

Nuff said.

[FlyingPete]

...well that's just not correct at all. My best friend uses an Elan 7e, and we switch lenses all the time.

..I know you knew that... :-\

One of my lenses I still use is from my ElanII (EOS50), the rest apart from my 18-55 are from my Elan 7 (EOS30), so yes, no issues there!

[KevC]

The nice thing about Nikno is that the old manual focus Nikkors still work on the newest bodies. Unfortunately, our FD lenses wont work on our EOS mounts, even with an adapter. Or did they change that around? Anyway, I don't think it'll be worth it.

What I don't understand is why this matters at all lol. EF has been around for a long while, I'm using my father's 35-105/3.5-4.5 on my drebel with no problems at all. And this was purchased with the EOS650, the first EOS body Canon ever made. How many years ago is that? 15? oOoOo less than 30, but obviously there has been great changes in research and development =)

I know, I know, preachin to the choir here! :D

[Longwatcher]

Anytime someone tells you that Noink has more lenses available, point out that there is an adapter to put Nikon lenses on a Canon, but you can't put a Canon lens on a Nikon without problems. There is also an adapter for putting FD lenses on EF mounts, So there. :P

Mind you Canon lenses on a Canon will almost always be better then Nikon lenses on a Canon.

As to keeping lenses. One of the big advanatges for many many years was the fact that all Hasselblad camera components were interchangeable. This apparently changed a few years back with the H-1 series. Life moves on. My 30 year old (and three owner) medium format and 20 year old 35mm format film cameras still work just fine. Go figure. The fact that my 50/1.4 FD lens did not work on my D60 did not slow me a down one bit. I just went and got a 50/1.4 for my D60, which works on my 10D and 1DsMkII just fine thank you. I know it works on the last as I was using it today.

Just my opinion,

[DavidEB]

I stuck with my old FD mount canon SLR for many years because the FD lenses got to be really cheap. I had such a nice collection, now gone since I've moved on to digital SLRs. sigh....

A friend has a D70. it's a fine camera. so is my 20D.

[mspringfield]

As someone who has owned both I can honestly say that the guys on the "dark side" have several things that the "white lens boys" have no answer for. That may change very soon, but currently Canon has no true answer for the D2x. It falls squarely between the 1DMkII and the 1DsMkII. Also on the lens side Canon has no equivalent to the 200mm F2VR or the 200-400 F4VR. We had the 200 1.8 but it has been discontinued and used ones are close to impossible to find.

For low light focus lock ability Canon isn't even in the game. If the eye can see it the "dark lenses" on the pro bodies can lock on it. My MkII needs much more contrast to be able to lock even if I put a friend's 300 1.8 on it. Every D1/2 I even owned could lock focus in nearly total darkness.

Also one feature that I would love to see Canon add to their longer lenses that the other guys have had for years is the focus lock button on then end of the lens just behind the hood mount. When I shoot with a long lens on a monopod my right hand is on the shutter and my left is resting on top of the lens to stablize it. Nik has 4 focus lock buttons at 12, 3, 6, and 9 O'clock that falls right under the index finger. I really miss that.

While I love my MkII and my L glass never ever count the other guys out. My 1DMkII is probably the most versatile camera I have ever owned which why I kept it and sold my D2h but it certainly doesn't completely KO "the other guys". Nor would I want it to. The "dark side" keeps Canon on their toes and pushes them to keep making thier cameras better and better.

Just my .02 as someone who has been on both sides.
Michael

[m3elmo]

i'm not going to get into the canon vs. nikon argument.

One main thing is that nikon prices almost all their cameras in between canon models. They will not put a camera in direct competition in regards to price to a canon camera. Therefore it's hard to compare any two cameras since they are not the same price.

[CyberDyneSystems]

Also one feature that I would love to see Canon add to their longer lenses that the other guys have had for years is the focus lock button on then end of the lens just behind the hood mount. .... I really miss that.


Just FYI
This is on Canon's long Telephotos..
600mm, 500mm, 400mm f/2.8 and 400mm f/4, 300mm f/2.8 and a variation of it is on the 200mm f/1.8 ;)

They just don't put it on any Zooms..

[calgaryphotographer]

I will admit something, my dad had a bunch of FD lenses for his AE-1, when I bought my rebel they didn't work :(

My uncle who used to be a professional photographer had a F4 and $35000+ in lenses, all his lenses would work, and now he is saving for a D100

[BEEEsH]

Don't the Nikon cameras generally come with a better stock lens?

[FlyingPete]

Don't the Nikon cameras generally come with a better stock lens?

It could be argued that the D70 comes with a 'better' kit lens thatn the 300D/350D and 20D, as it is a 18-70, rather than the Canon 18-55. I have used one, and it does seem to be of better build than the Canon.

One other thing of interest, one of the guys I work with here bought a 70-200 f/2.8 VR (Nikons equivilent of IS) for about a third less than the Canon, and that was retail. Not sure how the optics stand up, but the results I have seen from it are impressive.

Bottom line IMHO, if you have used Nikons, stick with a Nikon DSLR, same goes for Canon. Everytime I pick up a Nikon SLR or DSLR I get lost, esspecially the older ones, that is because I have been using Canon SLR's for the last 10 years, and have had no issues moving between models. Interetingly enough the Nikon guy here has few issues with my Canon, and admits it is far more logical to use. And of course the descision is even simplier when you already have some lenses...

[Bodryn]

Nobody has mentioned the Pentax *istDS (DSLR) which can use virtually all of your old Pentax and Ricoh film camera lenses. It has a great through the lens viewfinder that lets me really see what I'm going to get. I'm having a lot of fun with this camera. There is also a new *istDS2 which has a larger LCD screen. One reason I went with this camera is that it lets me use rechargeable or alkaline AA batteries so I never need to worry about finding batteries for it. The SD card isn't my favorite but it works well enough.

[soupdragon]

I wonder if people will be selling EF-S lenses whole sale when canon finally adopt full 35mm frame sensors for the future eos range.

[grego]

As someone who has owned both I can honestly say that the guys on the "dark side" have several things that the "white lens boys" have no answer for. That may change very soon, but currently Canon has no true answer for the D2x. It falls squarely between the 1DMkII and the 1DsMkII.




That can go both ways though. The D2X has that versatility of switching from a speedy mode to a high resolution mode. Nothing matches that, but........

1D MKII:
-1.3x Crop
-8.5 fps at 8.2 MP
-ISO 100 - 1600 in 1/3 stops, plus 50 and 3200 as options

D2X:
-1.5x crop
-5 fps @ 12 mp, 8 fps @ 6.8 mp (doesn't beat it at the fastest speed)
-ISO 100 - 800

So it might have more versatility, but it doesn't specialize as well in each section.

And versatility is relative to what you are photographing as well. For a photo journalist, there's a reason why the 1DMKII is the top dog. Crop, res, and speed to boot.

Both are fine cameras, but the D2H can't lick the 1DMKII, and the D2X hangs in between, which might be better if you don't need high ISO, or need to get very wide.

Both companies offer something, the other can't at the moment.

[pehabe]

do not forget the FLASH... NOKIN has better flash than CANON... just my 2 cent ;)

[condyk]

Do Nikon owners have to put up with grumpy people complaining about 3rd party lenses being rubbish and having compatibility issues, or are there no long term issues with 3rd party lenses and Nikon bodies?

[grego]

Oh you should know the answer to that one........

[mspringfield]

Just FYI
This is on Canon's long Telephotos..
600mm, 500mm, 400mm f/2.8 and 400mm f/4, 300mm f/2.8 and a variation of it is on the 200mm f/1.8 ;)

They just don't put it on any Zooms..

Cool. I didn't realize that! The versions of the 200 1.8 and 300 2.8 that I have used didn't have it. They must have been older versions.

Thanks for letting me know. :D
Michael

[blinking8s]

nikon does have a bad ass flash system, if i was a studio guru, id go nikon all the way...

shot with a d2x at a football game the other night, just trying it out...AF system was incredibly poor for what i was expecting and noise count wasnt too impressive at hih iso's either, for their flagship...i wasnt impressed at all really, a full cool features, like the quick crop

canon all the way for me though...

[theflyingkiwi]

Lol.
FD->EOS was *one* mount change.


and nilon fans will never forget that. I am supprised then that nilon has managed to produce a digital camera, after all that's a change as well :) :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Glad we never had a change in the design of the car :)

[Lester Wareham]

He said he likes the Nikon because unlike the Canon you can reuse the lenses from his film Nikon. Someone must be out there perpetuating this myth....
I suspect a lot of Canon FD owners (like me) are looking to convert to digital and only now finding out their FD glass is no good on the "new" bodies.

I found out about EF mount some time in 99 I think, when I wanted to get a new lens, so I had got over the shock by the time I went to digital.

The change to FD was, what 86? But I bet only a few are finding out now. Funny how these things last so long.

Another thing is the amazing amount of confussion a lot of punters have about EF-S lenses, I bet many think this is a "new" Canon mount and that FD is discontinued.

[PhotosGuy]

Mind you Canon lenses on a Canon will almost always be better then Nikon lenses on a Canon. Care to expand on that statement? ;)

[Jon]

In Pop. Photo's "Ten Things You Should Know About The Nikon D70", I saw at least two that should get people's attention here. It has the (often-requested here)ISO shift available, and it comes with ($20 or so add-on with the D70s) a battery holder allowing you to use Li CR2 cells if your rechargeables go flat on you. That's in the camera, not the grip. It also doesn't require an external on-camera flash for wireless flash control, as is frequently noted on the Flash & Lighting forum here.

[Keiffer]

I shot a few shots with a friends D70s and I liked everything about it except the noise at high iso, Other than that the cam shoots sharp color correct pics everytime. I just can't stand noise. oh and everything is backwards on it compared to Canon, ie, lens screws in left instead of right.

[pfogle]

It's sad we can't use FD lenses on EF mounts without losing infinity focus. I had some great FD glass <sigh>

However... we can use manual Nikon lenses, and there are some beauties out there (85/2, 105/2.5 etc)... using this adapter: http://www.camerahacker.com/Novoflex/EOSNIK.html (http://www.camerahacker.com/Novoflex/EOSNIK.html)

[FlyingPete]

Mind you Canon lenses on a Canon will almost always be better then Nikon lenses on a Canon.

Care to expand on that statement? ;)

There are adaptors that allow Nikon mount lenses to be used on Canon EOS bodies with no optical conversion required, in fact I believe some even also do aperture as well, so yes they work, but limited. I think that is what he meant.

[PhotosGuy]

It was a pretty general statement. I use my 105 2.5 Nikkor a lot with a 1" extention tube & it has a higher rating than my 28-70 f/2.8 L or the 70-200 f/4 L.

[JSolie]

It's sad we can't use FD lenses on EF mounts without losing infinity focus. I had some great FD glass <sigh>

However... we can use manual Nikon lenses, and there are some beauties out there (85/2, 105/2.5 etc)... using this adapter: http://www.camerahacker.com/Novoflex/EOSNIK.html (http://www.camerahacker.com/Novoflex/EOSNIK.html)
What about this?

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=productlist&A=details&Q=&sku=89910&is=REG

Let's see... a 1.6 crop factor X a 1.25 focal length increase = x 2 (with a loss of 1 f-stop) Hmm... ;)

-- John

[Andy_T]

John ...

to answer your question with a demonstration, I borrowed two images taken by Geneman88 from another thread (http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=90249) :

Image taken with EF 85/1.8

http://photography-on-the.net/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=22448&stc=1&d=1123365255

Image taken with FD 50/1.8 + FD-EOS converter:

http://photography-on-the.net/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=22449&stc=1&d=1123365255

... get the picture (pun intended :wink: ) ?

The degradation (the 50/1.8 is a lot better on an FD camera) in the image is because there has to be a lens in the converter to allow for infinity focus. There are very much sought after Canon converters that had very high quality elements in them, but the one in the link is not one of these.

For NOINK, M42, Leica on the other hand ... no lens is needed ... so there is no image degradation.


Best regards,
Andy

[ed2day]

It also doesn't require an external on-camera flash for wireless flash control, as is frequently noted on the Flash & Lighting forum here.

That's one thing I'd like to see Canon match. Of course if I get the 5D, it doesn't have internal flash anyway, so it's a moot point.

[DocFrankenstein]

I can't ever get the noink lens argument.

You can use the lenses from 30 years...
1) you can't focus accurately
2) only the noink pro bodies actually meter the lenses
3) you can mount the noink lenses on a canon without losing infinity focus
4) Canon bodies are only better in this regard, since even the rebels will have full metering capacities with noink or any other lenses.

BTW: I've heard *ist D is a really nice camera too. Small, decent viewfinder and accepts m42 lenses.