Autofocusing birds in flight

[101Photo]

I use a Canon EOS 20D. I photograph birds using primarily a 300 f4L IS lens and a 400 f5.6L lens. I usually have problems getting the camera to autofocus on a bird in flight against a blue sky. I would, ideally, like the camera to autofocus and I would like to be able to continue shooting using AI Servo. I find this works well when I am photographing my Golden Retriever running in the yard but rarely works when trying to photograph a bird in flight. Any advice? Thanks!

[Tapeman]

I have a lot of Canadin Geese flying over here and I use my 70-200 2.8 with a 2x. If I get lucky I'll get a good shot. My shotgun is more reliable.

[robertwgross]

Let's think about this.

Would you say that the dog is larger than a flying bird? (probably yes)
Would you say that the dog is much closer than the flying bird? (probably yes)

The dog is probably going to take up more of the camera frame than the flying bird will unless you have optimal conditions with an optimal lens. I will wager that it is easier to put a focus point on a brightly toned dog with grass as a background as compared to putting a focus point on a flying bird with a bright sky as a background. As autofocus targets go, the bird is tough. It can be done, but it takes a lot of panning practice.

Try an experiment. First, glue feathers to your dog, and then <sputter, sputter>...

Never mind.

---Bob Gross---

[ssim]

Oh the images that I deleted from my hard drive when I first started birding. Sometimes it was downright disheartening.

I have shot with 300, 400 and 500mm lenses and even with the 500 the birds are sometimes small in the image and trying to hold focu on them is difficult. Sometimes the spray and pray approach does work (firing off a burst of 3 or 4 images) but it takes alot of CF space and post processing time. I was surprised that sometimes the images subsequent to the first were better.

There is no real magic to this, just practise and chaning your focus points until you find a combination that really works for you. Even at that you will still have alot of throw aways where you missed the subject on your focus point.

Personally I kind of like the suggestion of glueing feathers to your dog for practise.

[Mitcon]

I do alot of these type of shots, really mostly it's practice. I use single point focus either center or the left/right extreme. AI Servo, continuous drive mode and normally Evaluative metering for the most part. As said taking a burst of 3-6 captures is the norm and don't expect all of them to be keepers. Try to target the largest/lightest spot first and if time allows refocus on the head/eyes or a lower breast spot thats about equal distance from you as the eyes.

Plan the shot in your mind as you see the bird coming, try to think of where the bird will be when you want the shot before start firing. Normally target the bird at the far right or left extreme and fire the shots when they are at about 40-50 degrees from you till they are roughly centered. This is what I try to work on as my kill zone kinda thing. Once they pass center shop firing but I keep tracking as depending on the type of bird they may bank and come back passed again.

Practice is the only real key to it, many differents forms and ways work for different people. If you can track the dog ok your off to a good start. I started using cars on the freeway, then when good enough I went to bike riders, then to the largers birds/children and so on. I still delete tons of shots lol, it's really just a practice makes perfect till you work out a system best suited to you.

[jobber73]

Custom Function #4 is your friend. :)

[Mitcon]

I hear so many people say that, I tried it and it hurts me alot. What is the real gain to it ?

Sorry I didn't notice the OP is a first time poster.

A BIG welcome to the forums 101photo, great bunch of people here with a great deal to share.

[robertwgross]

Then, when you think you have mastered the art of autofocus/panning on a flying bird, switch over to a hummingbird doing its standard J-dive display. That will set you back.

---Bob Gross---

[Desertraptor]

I tried on swallows last week. I got a few but too far out worth keeping and contrast was way out there. Sharp though :)

[DArthur]

my $.02 Try Manual Focus .... Focus out to infinity then back just a bit.. Most cases unless the Bird is really close you will find it will be in focus ... I shoot air craft and it works for me. This worked even B4 Auto Focus .... :-)

[Jim_T]

I tried on swallows last week. I got a few but too far out worth keeping and contrast was way out there. Sharp though :)

LOL.. I've never even thought of trying swallows.. They're too small and too fast :)

The other thing I'll never try is the bats that fly around my yard light catching bugs at night..

[Mitcon]

Swallows are a good test thats for sure, but if you watch them for a short while they repeat themselves and normally keep re-visiting so you can work a pattern. Not an easy starting point though lol. The really difficult birds are the small/tiny erratic grass or scrub birds like wrens or cisticolas that fly anywhich way.

[PacAce]

If the bird in flight isn't big enough to almost fill the whole viewfinder but is at least large enough to almost overlap two AF points, you'll have more success tracking that bird if you use Auto AF point selection rather than manual single AF point selection. With the Auto AF point selection, the camera will be doing the AF trackig of the bird for you (of course, you still have to try to keep the bird in the viewfinder) by shifting from the default (when you start out) center AF point to any of the other AF point that covers the bird if the bird goes off the center AF point.

If you only use a single AF point, then you have to keep that AF point on the bird while you are tracking it for it to remain in focus and with a tiny bird in the viewfinder, that's really hard to do, especially if you have IS turned on and the bird is NOT conveniently moving horizontally.

[CyberDyneSystems]

Here's some tips.

1: Practice on large, close flying birds. Luis' Gull is a perfect (and fabulous!) example.. in fact I find Gulls to be the absolute best bird to practice on.. as they are large and contrasty.. the camera likes to focus on them,. and unlike some other large birds I'll mention,. they are quite agile in flight so still pose a bit of a challenge. Other contenders are ducks and geese found in local parks etc.. (p.s. don't feed Ducks and Geese bread.. :) go the extra mile and save some cash by getting some dried corn feed or something that is actually healthy for the poor fat park ducks that are living on old wonder bread :( :( )

Only move on to Swallows once you feel very confident with the Gulls etc.. Swallows are truly one of the toughest targets around.. (excellent job Mitcon)

2: As Jobber mentions,. CF#4 is your freind. Switch your camera to custom function 4-1 and spend the next month or so getting used to focusing using your thumb on the * button.

3. AI servo and center focus point. Use all focus points only if you have a consistent solid background (blue sky) and are not trying to acheive focus on only the birds eye. However.. if you are using the 300D,. I don't even know if CF4 is availble??

4. Lens choice.. you are using the 400mm f/5.6.. which is in fact one of the best fastest focusing lenses for the job... so don't worry about your lens being a bottleneck.

5. Sun position.. if your subjects are even remotely back lit.. then focus is going to be mush more difficult.

[PhotosGuy]

However.. if you are using the 300D,. I don't even know if CF4 is availble?? It does have Auto AF point selection (Pg. 63) But I've never tried to use it in that mode.

[PacAce]

It does have Auto AF point selection (Pg. 63) But I've never tried to use it in that mode.
But unless you are using the 300D in Sports mode or you have the Russian hack, you won't be able to set it into AIServo mode and without it being in AIServo mode, using Auto AF point selection would be pretty much useless. I guess I should have made that a little clearer when I suggested the Auto AF point selection (along with the sky as the background, as CDS mentioned).

[PhotosGuy]

But unless you are using the 300D in Sports mode or you have the Russian hack, you won't be able to set it into AIServo mode Not true re the 300D, Leo. You must have missed this thread?
AI Servo and 300D (http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=73309)
I like Cadwells 1st option, & it worked great here:

Formula cars - Waterford Hills POTN Race Weekend (http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=95303)

[PacAce]

Not true re the 300D, Leo. You must have missed this thread?
AI Servo and 300D (http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=73309)
I like Cadwells 1st option, & it worked great here:

Formula cars - Waterford Hills POTN Race Weekend (http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=95303)
OK, Frank, I stand corrected. :o

But I did find that thread a little amusing. 300D owners getting excited about manually getting their camera to kick into AIServo mode. I thought the 300D, by default, was in AIFocus mode which automatically switches to AIServo mode when the subject moves. I guess the idea was to get the 300D in AIServo mode before the subject moved, eh? :)

[CyberDyneSystems]

.. er,.. I don't think CF4 has anything to do with auto af point selection?
Is it different on the 300D?

[Scottes]

Then, when you think you have mastered the art of autofocus/panning on a flying bird, switch over to a hummingbird doing its standard J-dive display. That will set you back.
ROFL! Yeah, too much of that and you'll go back to shooting weddings and be happy about it!

[Scottes]

5. Sun position.. if your subjects are even remotely back lit.. then focus is going to be mush more difficult.
And try for early morning or late afternoon, when the sun is lighting up the part of the bird you're look at - the bottom!

I did most of my bird-in-flight training shooting gulls just after dawn. I strongly recommended this for training.

[Mitcon]

Whats the advantage with using CF#4 ? I see that it allows you to focus without setting exposure untill you take the capture, but this only works in one-shot AF/single point focusing. If your using AI Servo/continuous focusing there is no real need. Just using the shutter button alone is fine as in AI servo mode half pressing the shutter button only activates focusing. Exposure is not set untill you fire/the button is fully depressed.

Am I missing the point ? I don't understand, anyone able to help me understand this better please ?

[PacAce]

Whats the advantage with using CF#4 ? I see that it allows you to focus without setting exposure untill you take the capture, but this only works in one-shot AF/single point focusing. If your using AI Servo/continuous focusing there is no real need. Just using the shutter button alone is fine as in AI servo mode half pressing the shutter button only activates focusing. Exposure is not set untill you fire/the button is fully depressed.

Am I missing the point ? I don't understand, anyone able to help me understand this better please ?
The differences are:

CFn04 = 0: Focusing is initiated by half-pressing the shutter button. Exposure is determined just before opening a shutter. AE is locked so if shooting a burst of frames, they are all exposed the same way.

CFn04 = 1: Focusing is initiated by pressing * button. Exposure is locked as soon as you depress the shutter button halfway. AE is locked so for a burst of frames, all frames are exposed the same. This setting allows you to AE lock on a scene different from the scene you are focusing on.

CFn04 = 3: Focusing is initiated by pressing * button. Exposure is determined just before each frame is exposed. If shooting a burst of frames, AE is NOT locked so each frame will have exposure recalculated.

I have my cameras set to CFn04=3 almost all the time.

[Mitcon]

Thanks Leo, I know/undertand the different settings and what they do but I was informed that CF#4=0, AE wasn't locked and sets each time the shutter fires. Also I read the manual it states that under both CF#4=0 and CF#4=3 the AE is taken as the shutter is released/image captured. This is why I'm confused as I hear people say that CF#4=3 is the way to do it but all the information I get/read states it as no different except for the fact you use 2 different buttons.

My brain hurts lol. I can't make use of this function anyway but I'd really like to know for certain just for my own understanding. Just seems like both options do the same thing to me unless the manual and info I get are incorrect. I'm not saying anyone here is wrong at all, I'm just confused by it or the difference in information

[PacAce]

Thanks Leo, I know/undertand the different settings and what they do but I was informed that CF#4=0, AE wasn't locked and sets each time the shutter fires. Also I read the manual it states that under both CF#4=0 and CF#4=3 the AE is taken as the shutter is released/image captured. This is why I'm confused as I hear people say that CF#4=3 is the way to do it but all the information I get/read states it as no different except for the fact you use 2 different buttons.

My brain hurts lol. I can't make use of this function anyway but I'd really like to know for certain just for my own understanding. Just seems like both options do the same thing to me unless the manual and info I get are incorrect. I'm not saying anyone here is wrong at all, I'm just confused by it or the difference in information
As I stated in my previous post, the camera focusing and AE behave as indicated. The problem with the manual is that it doesn't always give complete information about the camera's behavior. Often you only get part of the "story".

But, if you really want to be sure, then the best way to find out is to try it yourself, as I did. Set the camera to the different CFn04 settings and see what results you get. Nothing beats learning by personal experiences, I always say! :)

[CyberDyneSystems]

Whats the advantage with using CF#4 ?

Am I missing the point ?

Well maybe..

The definitive thread on the subject is here;
http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=46965


Just like "lens tests " etc.. it's hard to quantify in typed dialogue.. and test results mean little to me (this is a personal thing.. others feel very differently about such tests and discussion)


So I have this to offer..
What DOES matter to me is the bottom line,. or my and my equipments end results..

With little more than a solid months practice using CF 4-1 I was able to see a substantial increase in keepers in difficult situations. With 6 months under my belt,. I was convinced that having total control of when the AF is on and when it is not and when exposure is locked and when it is re-set for changed circumstances, has improved my own ability to make good photos more than any other change in how I shoot has had.

This remains true today having shot this way now for nearly two years.

Nothing has made a larger difference to my end results,. not better glass or better cameras, nothing.

[PhotosGuy]

300D owners getting excited about manually getting their camera to kick into AIServo mode. Leo, I for one, thought we only had it in Sports mode until that thread, so it was nice to find out that wasn't true. The manual doesn't show AI Servo in the Creative Modes (pg. 122).
I guess the idea was to get the 300D in AIServo mode before the subject moved, eh? For me it was a case of getting it to wake up & kick in faster.

[Mitcon]

Thanks Leo and CDS, if you have used it that long with success I must certainly be misinformed. I always believe the proof of the pudding is in the eating. I much prefer real world use to testing. Just not being able to use it myself I couldn't find out for myself. Sorry if I have caused anyone else confusion lol as this wasn't intended btw, I justed wanted to know if it really did make a difference. The only info I had was the manual which is a good little read but on this it isn't clear and some tech's but I already had my doubts about them also.

Thanks again for being understanding and putting up with my question, least I know whats what for certain now.