Firmware revision/ sharpness

[jimwong]

I have the 10d and taken some indoor test shots but was disappointed the pics not being sharp. it could be the low light/insufficent flash..

It helped with some sharpening in photoshop. My pics from my G2 are initially sharper and clearer than the 10d under same lighting conditions.

I wonder about the firmware revision 1.0. Is this the current?

[Vaio]

I believe that its the current one and the one that came with the cameras debut...

wanted to ask you, what lense (s) did you use?
I have been playing around and testing my 10D as I just got it and have been learning some interesting things ...

for example, have you already cleared all camera settings and also the custom ones? I noticed that I got better sharpness under that.
I use the 380 EX flash and it has worked good so far in my house... and as a good fill flash..

still testing though... so far results are coming better with learning about the camera. I guess at first I was trying to make it behave like my film ELan... that was wrong... you have to take a whole different approach..

[bluebomberx]

It is quite possibly a front-focusing issue. I posted a respone in another thread (http://www.photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=9894) today.

From what I've read about the Canon G series digicams, they utilize more judicious sharpening than the 10D in camera. Some G series owners have expressed their sadness that the 10D produces less than satisfactory images when compared to their other digicams. Image sharping is a subjective matter, however, most DSLR users prefer to sharpen their images in their post-capture workflow with USM in Photoshop. Fred Miranda (http://www.fredmiranda.com/actions) publishes some excellent actions for Photoshop. His CS Pro action, among his other fantastic actions, is a great tool. When the proper post-capture workflows are utilized, the 10D's images will easily outshine the P&S digicams.

-Richie

[Vaio]

I certainly agree..
I first thought about the same when I was comparing the first test shots with my Sony DSC-s70 with the Carl Zeiss Vario Sonnar lense, but I must agree now that with continued experiment and also working with photoshop that in NO WAY, does the sony compare to this magnificent camera...

[Yavor75]

Jim-
This is all true...but you also have to know how to do the sharpening. I've done tests between all the available sharpening routines and products..and good-old Photoshop USM still works wonderfully- if you know how to use it.

First, clear all presets/custom functions on the camera's custom function menu. (helps a bunch!)
Then- be sure you have a focused picture...and your auto-focus did not actually focus in front of the object you shot.
Use the standard sharpening settings on the camera...and of course large pix / fine - best size setting.
Open it in Photoshop and select Unsharpening mask. For a quick sharpen, set it at about 200-250 level, .3 radius and 0 threshold. One pass of this..and Badabing! If you have time, you can do the slow and better method of doing several passes of 50% and .3 .... like 5 passes...then a few passes of 50% at .2 and 50% at .1 . That's the pro way. You can set up a Photoshop action for macro'ing it.
The only better tool than this I've tried is Quantum Mechanic for $100 USD.
I own a Sony DSC707 as well, and I used to think it was really sharp...Like the G2...but it is totally consumer level compared to the film-like quality of the 10D.

Have Fun-
Bob

[rodbunn]

I can't believe that most of us paid over $1500 for this body and it sounds like MOST users think it should be BAU to sharpen the pics up with software ! The pics should be sharp right out of the camera ! It should NOT be a "given" that the pic won't be clear. Also, the body should work with all lenses. I'm finding out that with some lenses (canon's) that the camera "front focuses" at certain ranges of the lense. That sucks, now I have to worry about what I have the lense set at.

Wow. What's wrong with this picture? I expect more out of Canon.

[bluebomberx]

rodbunn wrote:
I can't believe that most of us paid over $1500 for this body and it sounds like MOST users think it should be BAU to sharpen the pics up with software ! The pics should be sharp right out of the camera ! It should NOT be a "given" that the pic won't be clear. Also, the body should work with all lenses. I'm finding out that with some lenses (canon's) that the camera "front focuses" at certain ranges of the lense. That sucks, now I have to worry about what I have the lense set at.

Wow. What's wrong with this picture? I expect more out of Canon.

Rod, you will have to send your 10D to Canon Professional Service in NJ to recallibrate your AF. Like I said in the other thread, it's related to longer focal lengths. Canon screwed up, but they will fix it if you send it to them.

As far as sharpening digital images goes, every digital image needs sharpening. Pixels are introduced and inherently produce softer images. It doesn't matter if they came from a Nikon Super Coolscan 4000ED, a Canon 1Ds, or a Canon 10D. If you don't want to sharpen your images in a post-capture workflow, then bump up the sharpening parameter in the parameters of your 10D. I shoot my 10D with Adobe RGB and do all of my sharpening in Photoshop afterwards. For those who don't want to learn USM in Photoshop, I urge you to check out the actions I linked to by Fred Miranda.

-Richie

[Yavor75]

Well Rod-
You could have spent $2200 and waited 2 months to get a D60 -3 months ago- to have the same camera as the 10D- but it shot 1 stop underexposed, couldn't focus unless it was in bright light, had a crappy LCD, was made of plastic, and made even softer shots out of the camera...and then have to drop-kick it on Ebay...just to get on the waiting list for a Fixed D60- the 10D. (hundreds of us did just that)

The 10D is a whopping deal of a camera for $1500- and has almost no flaws. Remember, If you didn't listen to the pros - nit-picking the finest details of the 10D apart, you'd probably be very happy with the camera. You are suffering from FBRS - Forum-burn-remorse-syndrome.

If you want to just download pix without adjusting them at all..just set the menu controls for ++ sharpness and ++ saturation. You want stunning pro-level shots?- Shoot RAW, and process with software...get all the quality you paid for.

Bob

[Dan_mobile]

rodbunn wrote:
I can't believe that most of us paid over $1500 for this body and it sounds like MOST users think it should be BAU to sharpen the pics up with software ! The pics should be sharp right out of the camera ! It should NOT be a "given" that the pic won't be clear. Also, the body should work with all lenses. I'm finding out that with some lenses (canon's) that the camera "front focuses" at certain ranges of the lense. That sucks, now I have to worry about what I have the lense set at.

Wow. What's wrong with this picture? I expect more out of Canon.

Dear Rodbunn
“Sharpness” often is confused with edge detail and shadow depth. Most consumer digital cameras produce limited dynamic range compared to a top rated digital SLR, and not expected to. Sometimes images viewed right out of a consumer camera’s box are perceived to be more “sharp” or even more in-focus. Unfortunately the edge detail and dynamic range are lost and can never (and I mean never) be recovered. Conversely ultra-fine gradations in pixel-to-pixel details sometimes makes RAW images look “soft” because there is no sharp differential at the edges. Nevertheless these edge details are easily adjusted with software for various output needs like printing, screen, web, etc. The RAW “negative” is never touched and the depth of detail is always available with readjustments for new output needs. The 10D (and most other digital SLRs) is designed for semi-professional use with more emphasis on the professional side. It is not a point-and-shoot device and thus will not produce consumer based results out of the box. The absolute amazing quality of images I have personally produced with my D60 and 10D are so superior to anything from a consumer-based point-and-shoot camera is beyond describing – must see it to believe it. Yes, it does take a little of post processing work, but the results are nothing short of stunning.
Dan
http://www.pettusphoto.com

[jimwong]

thanks for all the response. Further experimentation revealed better results. I put the 10D on a tripod for indoor photos and they are much improved. I still percieve that my G2 produced sharper photos out of the box than the 10D. I will use my 10D for sports where I need a long focal length lens. I have some consumer grade Sigma lenses, 24-70mm f2.8 and a Sigma 80-300 f3.5 - 4.8 zooms, approx $339 and $239 from B&H. I also have a 420EX flash.

I don't want to spend a fortune on the Canon "L" series lenses to get sharper pics. I will have to do post processing of my photos in Photoshop.

[robertwgross]

Jim, don't complain. I don't even have Photoshop!

I was one who purchased Corel Photo-Paint 8 back when it was a strong competitor. After investing time in learning it, I am too cheap to switch over to Photoshop.

It has many of the same features and functions as Photoshop, but it is just a little older and less automated.

Any Photo-Paint users out there?

---Bob Gross---

[jduncan]

Open it in Photoshop and select Unsharpening mask. For a quick sharpen, set it at about 200-250 level, .3 radius and 0 threshold. One pass of this..and Badabing! If you have time, you can do the slow and better method of doing several passes of 50% and .3 .... like 5 passes...then a few passes of 50% at .2 and 50% at .1 . That's the pro way. You can set up a Photoshop action for macro'ing it.

could you possibly explain this again a bit more simply with more direct instructions. what is the 'passes' part of it. i am trying to learn photoshop just now and am finding that some of the descriptions given a little vague.

also does anyone know of any good tutorials on USM

thanks
james