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Old 21st of August 2006 (Mon)   #1
79TAKid
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Default Ever been told "You dont have permission to be here?".. I did

Just wanted to share my experience at the track the other day.

So ive been going over to the track for the past TWO years taking pictures (around the starting line, to 60' mark, or sometimes burnouts, which are OK places to be).

So this Saturday I was there, I go over with my dad every Saturday, know all the racers, and take pictures to learn, and possibly sell. Mainly to learn and have fun while im there instead of sitting around all day waiting for my dad to race.. Thats how I got into photography and bought my XT.
I'm up there taking pictures like normal, the only photographer up there, and once of the starters (throws switch for tree to come down) just switched spots with the other guy I know whos usually up there. I know the other guy sort of because hes been there a long time, but never really talked to him.
So he sees me and is like "HEY, GET OVER HERE!"
I walk over and hes like "You Dont have permission to be up here anymore because of what your doing in the pits!"

I was pretty surprised at that and didnt think to ask WHAT AM I DOING WRONG?!? The only thing I could think of is giving out a few pictures to my friends and people who do stuff in return for us.

I thought I "POed" the track manager or someone, so I go find him and ask him "Why Cant I take Pictures anymore?" and he had no clue what I was talking about.
I told him my story, and he was pretty busy but is a nice guy so he said he'd go talk to Ace (the starter) when he had time.

The only other reason I could think of why he would say anything is because the "Track Photographer" who is employed there (doesnt get paid) showed up for the 1st time in 5 months. I was pretty mad that I had only gotten 90 pictures in and was bored the rest of the day. I didnt even get to try out my new 4GB Transcend card or battery.

Well, thats my story, the guys just a big @sshole. Went and talked to the announcer for awhile (I know just about everyone there) and he said that the dude never shows up for work and is a big prick and that I should be able to be up there since that guys just the starter and doesnt have any say in anything.


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Old 21st of August 2006 (Mon)   #2
liza
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Default Re: Ever been told "You dont have permission to be here?".. I did

So, outbid him for the job. That would be justice, to say the least.
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Old 22nd of August 2006 (Tue)   #3
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Default Re: Ever been told "You dont have permission to be here?".. I did

heck yes. put together a small portfolio of your work, explain to him that you are excited and capable to do the work, and emphasize that you will actually show up and do a good job. im sure that they will entertain the offer.

if they have an unpaid "track photog", and he only shows up once every 5 months, what is he even doing for them.

PS. dont kill them with 100 shots, just get 10 or so really sharp ones printed about 8x10 and talk to them about what you can do...
keep in mind what you want... if you just want to take pics for fun you may not want the responsibility. if you become the track photographer, will that hinder your ability to do your own thing, probably not.
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Old 22nd of August 2006 (Tue)   #4
tim
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Default Re: Ever been told "You dont have permission to be here?".. I did

You say to him "Are you an offical of this event?" If he says no tell him he can stick his opinion up his a***. Make sure you have offical permission before trying this line.
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Old 22nd of August 2006 (Tue)   #5
Steve Parr
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Default Re: Ever been told "You dont have permission to be here?".. I did

It sounds like you're in a pretty favorable position to negotiate the rights to shoot. You've been shooting there a while, you continue to go on a regular basis, and you intend to continue. Add to that the fact that the "official" track photographer rarely shows up, and you're standing on pretty solid ground.

Tim's advice of telling him to stick his opinion is, well, bad advice. The guy may not be a "track official", but it's probably a safe bet that he's good friends with the guys who are.

If you're already acquainted with the people who work there, use that to your advantage. Use that along with your portfolio and the fact that the "official" guy never shows up, and you may well find yourself trackside...
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Old 22nd of August 2006 (Tue)   #6
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Default Re: Ever been told "You dont have permission to be here?".. I did

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Parr
Tim's advice of telling him to stick his opinion is, well, bad advice. The guy may not be a "track official", but it's probably a safe bet that he's good friends with the guys who are.
Fair call. That was my 2nd thought, my first thought was to... well... you don't need to know that
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Old 22nd of August 2006 (Tue)   #7
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Default Re: Ever been told "You dont have permission to be here?".. I did

Always check with the "official" official. My husband is a lawyer and I never want to have to ask him to get involved in anything I shoot. I usually e-mail the people who are in charge of an events, if I am not asked specifically to shoot it. It's an easy way to have a written response that you have permission or that you communicated already with the highest power.
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Old 23rd of August 2006 (Wed)   #8
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Default Re: Ever been told "You dont have permission to be here?".. I did

I'm sorry that had to happen to you man, I know how upsetting it can get when someone oversteps their bounds. I think you did the right thing. As soon as someone tells me I can't do something, the first thing I think is "does this M/Fer have any right to tell me this?" If I can't tell by just looking, I'll ask him, then I ask him who his boss is and how I can get ahold of him, or her. Then I will confirm the information. Typically I'm shooting in places that are in the grey area of law so I don't have much of a foot to stand on legally, but they don't know that. Good luck, I hope you can take that dudes "job" if you want it that is.
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Old 23rd of August 2006 (Wed)   #9
Steve Parr
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Default Re: Ever been told "You dont have permission to be here?".. I did

Quote:
Originally Posted by deadpass
As soon as someone tells me I can't do something, the first thing I think is "does this M/Fer have any right to tell me this?"
Probably a safe bet that you don't ask yourself the same thing if someone tells you that you can do something, though, right?
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Old 23rd of August 2006 (Wed)   #10
79TAKid
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Default Re: Ever been told "You dont have permission to be here?".. I did

Talked to the Track manager again last night and he still hadnt called the guy

I asked him if I could get an application to be a track photographer and he said I can probably be one next year (no schedual, no pay, can do just about anything) Sounds good to me
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Old 24th of August 2006 (Thu)   #11
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Default Re: Ever been told "You dont have permission to be here?".. I did

Yup - A few words to the right 'official' in the right way can really smooth out the path. A freeby now and then ain't bad either. Then, when or if you are challenged, start dropping names.

If you are serious about making a buck with an organization, start at the very TOP level - after that things fall into place. Starting anywhere else will mean a long climb up.
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Old 24th of August 2006 (Thu)   #12
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Default Re: Ever been told "You dont have permission to be here?".. I did

Actually, the best course is to back off until you can talk to the person in charge. An unpaid photographer is not a "track photographer". Is the property privte or public. If it is public then you can go where ever you want to.

If it is private talk to the OWNER or the manager of the track well in advance of your next planned arrival. Send him a letter on your letter head, and explain that you would like to take pictures for your own use (non commercial applications only for now. See if you can get the track to get you a photo pass or create one your self. It is legal. That way if anyone sees you from a distance you can flash your (home made) badge Put RACE PHOTOGRAPHER on it and a small image of you. On the reverse put a thuimb print and contact info. I know it is stupid but it works. Also make some photo business cards for advertise. It's funny but cards lend a sense of professionilism and lets them know that you are serious.

Do that for awhile gather some great images that rival what is being published in magazines. Then submit the images to the magazines first and don't stop until they use one. Then take that to the track officials show them the PUBLISHED image and get the track gig. BUT do not ever sign over the rights to the images to anyone, period.

Sell or make large prints, get some wall space on or near the track so that others can see your work and go from there. You may have to make a few freebies to get the ball rolling but if someone can afford thousands of dollars to make and run a dragster they can afford good images.

Good luck,

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Old 24th of August 2006 (Thu)   #13
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Default Re: Ever been told "You dont have permission to be here?".. I did

there arent any photographers getting stuff published there, just others like me and one guy that is 'hired' by the track, but is there once every 5 months.

I am friends with the track manager and most of the employees there. The track manager doenst mind that I go take pictures. We dont really have passes there, you just need a little armband that you get with your entry ticket to be up by the starting line.
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Old 24th of August 2006 (Thu)   #14
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Default Re: Ever been told "You dont have permission to be here?".. I did

Hey Aaron,

I know what you mean, but having written permission and a credential of some kind will usually takes the wind out of any blowhard, that appoints themselves an authority. It happens to me every once in a while where a well meaning parent tries to keep me from taking pictures at a HS football game or other event. I have been rousted by all manner of cops, security officers and just plain knuckleheads. Oddly enough when I am shooting bikini stuff in the middle of downtown San Jose I get lots of helpers...... and an occasional assistant director . Try the letter thing, make your own badge to ID yourself if nothing else put Hagen Race Team Official Photographer. People are usually loud and often fooled.

Have fun and be safe at the track.

Les
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Old 24th of August 2006 (Thu)   #15
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Default Re: Ever been told "You dont have permission to be here?".. I did

read this http://www.rcfp.org/photoguide/
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