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How to proceed with this situation.

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Thread started 11 Oct 2006 (Wednesday) 12:07   
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swatcop169
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I was contacted by a agency to do a shoot for 15 clients so they can advertise in this brochure the agency is putting out. At the time I didn't know how many they had planned on printing, so I quoted them for only 10,000 copies. Today, they call and say they are printing 50,000 copies and offer me a full page to advertise my business if I would consider working with them on price.

Now mind, you I haven't given them a price yet. I was going to charge them $600 for the entire shoot (basically works out to $40 a client and a days worth of work.)

According to OZimages this job should br priced at $1000 due to the number of copys being sold.

Post #1, Oct 11, 2006 12:07:32




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vwpilot
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Wait, you are going to take 15 photo for 15 clients for 15 seperate ads in this brochure?

Is that right?

If so, you should be charging for 15 seperate uses for a brochure at 50k circulation. At least that is how it looks on the surface.

Otherwise, dont look at it as a "per client" fee and just charge the agency a fair day rate and add on the usage fees.

I would look for at least $1000 for something like this, probably giving them a day rate of $1500, do the shoot and allow them a one time use on the photos. Think about it, that is a deal for them, they are getting 15 photos for advertising use for only $100 each.

What it sounds like you are really looking at here though is 15 different photos for 15 clients for their advertising use in this brochure. Ideally, its sounds more like you should be looking to try to get the usage fee from each client which could range from about $300-$700 per.

Or am I totally wrong in how I am reading your description?

Post #2, Oct 11, 2006 13:52:22


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swatcop169
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I will be taking 15 photos thats it. Once client will be advertising in this brochure. So there will only be 1 photo per client.

Post #3, Oct 11, 2006 14:32:33




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matthewlrigdon
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Have a friend call up ask the agency what they'd charge for a full page ad in this brochure, then figure out whether the advertising is worth it to you.

Also, ask them to throw in layout and design for free. They're an agency, after all.

Post #4, Oct 11, 2006 15:05:43 as a reply to swatcop169's post 33 minutes earlier.




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swatcop169
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matthewlrigdon wrote in post #2107406external link
Have a friend call up ask the agency what they'd charge for a full page ad in this brochure, then figure out whether the advertising is worth it to you.

Also, ask them to throw in layout and design for free. They're an agency, after all.

They are including layout and design for free. I'll see what I can find out abou the price they charge.

Post #5, Oct 11, 2006 15:13:02




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vwpilot
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swatcop169 wrote in post #2107266external link
I will be taking 15 photos thats it. Once client will be advertising in this brochure. So there will only be 1 photo per client.

So you are taking 15 photos for 15 clients for 15 advertising uses.

To me, that means that each client should be paying for each use and that means that normally you should be recieving about $350-$700 per client for each use. If I had 15 clients, they would each be paying that amount for one photo to use in this ad.

However, its all being arranged by the agency and the clients arent paying anything for it, then you could do it as a single shoot for the agency, however, you have 15 photos being used, so that is a fairly hefty usage rate.

This isnt like going in and doing a shoot in which you will take 15 photos but only one will end up being used, all the photos are being used so its a fairly big usage fee here.

This is how I understand it anyway. Remember, time or the fact you can do it in one day has nothing to really do with it, you have to evaluate the usage and you are having 15 photos used for advertising in the end. That should be compensated fairly.

Post #6, Oct 11, 2006 17:23:58


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PhotosGuy
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However, its all being arranged by the agency and the clients arent paying anything for it, then you could do it as a single shoot for the agency, however, you have 15 photos being used, so that is a fairly hefty usage rate.

Tricky situation, isn't it? No matter how you figure it, someone is probably going to get screwed. Probably you! :D

Selling - Getting paid
ASMP Pricing Strategies (American Society of Media Photographers_
http://www.asmp.org/co​mmerce/digitalps_6.phpexternal link
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NPPA: Cost of Doing Business Calculator
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Post #7, Oct 12, 2006 09:49:52


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vwpilot
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PhotosGuy wrote in post #2110749external link
Tricky situation, isn't it? No matter how you figure it, someone is probably going to get screwed. Probably you! :D

Not totally, you just need to price the shoot to the agency accordingly. You still have the advertising usage of 15 images, just price it out properly and you can come out ok here.

IMO anything under $1500 though is definately getting screwed, you should be in the several thousand dollar range IMO.

Post #8, Oct 12, 2006 12:32:58


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chtgrubbs
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It's seems unlikely to me that you can shoot for 15 different clients in one day, unless they are headshots in one location or single product drop-out shots. I would figure on two days shooting, plus post production time. I would figure at least $2000. The Photographers Index usage calculator puts the fee for a 1/4 page photo as $350-600 each, so that would be a minimum of of $4500 for usage alone, so even at $2K they are getting a bargain.

Post #9, Oct 12, 2006 17:23:29




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amonline
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It sounds like all they need is a photographer. I think you should look at the bigger picture - future possibilities with them. If that is a possibility, then yes, I would get my foot in the door by giving them a deal on a one-day shoot. (15 clients) $600 sounds reasonable to me. If they want you to cut that down, I'd just quote what the industry standards are and tell them you'll do it for $500 - period. (I'm going on the assumption this is head shots... not sure what type of agency)

You should get final say in layout and color proofing.

Just my opinion...

Post #10, Oct 14, 2006 16:24:36




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vwpilot
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And that is the totally wrong way to think.

There is no "getting your foot in the door" in this business. Once you price something out, that is it, that is what they will always expect from you. And allowing those kinds of uses for that kind of money is nothing but wrong and will hurt you and the business as a whole.

How much do you think the agency is making from those ads and for this mailer? Its should be significant. These photos have serious value to them, that value should be paid for.

Post #11, Oct 14, 2006 19:21:07


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amonline
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Forgive me, but none of us know the actual situation because the OP hasn't truly stated the whole ball of wax. Based on 15 headshots that could take as little as an hour or two - 4 tops with PP... I think $150 an hour is more than fair.

How 'bout saving your soap box until the time's right. ;)

Post #12, Oct 14, 2006 20:22:43




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vwpilot
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An hourly rate means nothing in this situation, it doesnt matter if he can take all 15 shots in less than 15 minutes.

The basis here is the usage. He will have 15 shots used for advertisement in a direct mail brochure reaching 50,000 people. Its the USAGE that will drive the rate in such instances, not how long it takes you to do the job.

The greater the worth of the photos to the client, the greater the worth of the photos to you. Hence advertising is worth more than editorial because its going to make the client more money. Hence a national advertising job is worth more than a local one, as it will reach a wider audience for the client. Hence a brochure with 15 shots going to 50k people is worth a heck of a lot more than one with one shot going to 10k people.

Its USAGE and that is what photographers need to wrap their minds around, not how long it will take them to take the photo.

And BTW, there is enough info here to know that $500 is waaaay too low. 15 photos, 50,000 circulation, and advertising is about all you need to know to understand that its too low. Any more info helps you fine tune a quote, but $500, or even $1000 is too low.

Additionally, when I think someone is undercharging significantly that will skew the value of photos in the industry, I think that is a perfect time to pull out the soapbox. I think I am saving it for the right time.

Rather than folks think people like myself or chtgrubbs are up on a soapbox, it would be nice to see them actually listen and take to heart valid information that might help them actually learn something and allow them to make some money in this profession.

Post #13, Oct 14, 2006 22:32:57


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amonline
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Fine, I'm wrong. It just seemed to me that this is not as big as it sounds. I will be checking back to see what this actually turns out to be. I'm really hoping for specifics.

Post #14, Oct 14, 2006 22:37:09




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swatcop169
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Sent a quote two days ago, still waiting to hear back from them. We'll see what they say.

Post #15, Oct 15, 2006 00:58:43




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