How to start selling ball game pictures to parents?

[gnnbtrn]

My kid just started to play soccer (football for the rest of the world).
He had just a few games, and I'm very proud that he scored his first goal!
Of course, I had my camera and took a couple shots. Some parents came back to me and complimented the pictures, nobody asked for the prints though.
I'm thinking can I sell the prints? What would be a fair price? should I print them and offer to parents, or ask them to order?

Here is some pictures I took:






I personally like the pictures, but is it really worth trying to sell some of them or my child family album is all where they should be?

[mcmadkat]

Don't you have to have a model release for each kid in the photo?

[gnnbtrn]

Originally Posted by mcmadkat

Don't you have to have a model release for each kid in the photo?

Don't think so, the pictures were taken at a public place.

[dmwierz]

Genna,

Is it really worth trying to sell some of them or my child family album is all where they should be?

The only people who can answer your question are the parents themselves. I've been shooting kids stuff for a few years and still can't figure out why one shot sells and another doesn't. Sometimes I get what I consider to be a great shot of a kid, with a close-up of his face showing the "thrill of victory", and the parent buys the one of his back, 30 yards distant, running away.

Your shots show good action and have the players' faces and all, but I would suggest you work a little on your timing so that you not only are getting faces (and ball, and action) but also the kid's eyes, because it's the EYES that really pull at the parent's pocketbooks.

Having said that, I'd think any parent would be happy to have the shots you posted as they're much, much better than they would or could get themselves.

Also, regarding prices, this varies quite a bit, but a typical 4x6 goes for from $5 to $8 per print. What did you have in mind in terms of product offerings?

Oh, and BTW, you don't need a model release since you're not using these to sell anything else (like in a print or broadcast media ad) and since they were presumably taken at a public venue and event, where anyone could attend.

Dennis

[gnnbtrn]

Originally Posted by dmwierz

Genna,



The only people who can answer your question are the parents themselves. I've been shooting kids stuff for a few years and still can't figure out why one shot sells and another doesn't. Sometimes I get what I consider to be a great shot of a kid, with a close-up of his face showing the "thrill of victory", and the parent buys the one of his back, 30 yards distant, running away.

Your shots show good action and have the players' faces and all, but I would suggest you work a little on your timing so that you not only are getting faces (and ball, and action) but also the kid's eyes, because it's the EYES that really pull at the parent's pocketbooks.

Having said that, I'd think any parent would be happy to have the shots you posted as they're much, much better than they would or could get themselves.

Also, regarding prices, this varies quite a bit, but a typical 4x6 goes for from $5 to $8 per print. What did you have in mind in terms of product offerings?

Oh, and BTW, you don't need a model release since you're not using these to sell anything else (like in a print or broadcast media ad) and since they were presumably taken at a public venue and event, where anyone could attend.

Dennis

Thanks Dennis for advice, next time I'll go lower and shoot from the ground to get the eyes.
I've thought to give away some 4x6 prints, and at the time ask the parents what they'd like the CD to print themselves or order prints from me.

[dmwierz]

Thanks Dennis for advice, next time I'll go lower and shoot from the ground to get the eyes.
I've thought to give away some 4x6 prints, and at the time ask the parents what they'd like the CD to print themselves or order prints from me.

Genna, all I can say is to fight the urge to give away your prints if you have any thoughts of selling anything to these same parents later. By charging a fair price for your work, you are establishing yourself as a serious photographer in their eyes, and when/if you choose to market a CD to them later, it will be MUCH easier to charge for it.

People just starting out frequently feel uncomfortable charging for their work, especially if it's to friends or other parents, but think about this: could the other parents have taken the shots you did? Probably not. You have the skills and equipment that are worth more than free, so you should establish this up front.

You're probably going to ask what is a typical fee for a game's worth of images? Honestly, even when I was in my first year of shooting it would have not been unusual for a team to pay me $350 for this, and now it's more than this. What they get for this money is a guaranteed minimum 5 "magazine quality" action shots of each player (providing the kid actually plays - if not, I get the player on the bench, or in warm-ups etc), professionally edited and suitable for printing up to poster size. With each team having around 20 players (more for football, for which I charge more), this works out to only $20 or so per player, which if you think of it, really isn't bad at all.

Anyway, this is probably more than you wanted to know, but in summary, don't be afraid to charge for even the initial prints. If $8 or even $5 seems too much, charge $3...

[gnnbtrn]

Originally Posted by dmwierz

Genna, all I can say is to fight the urge to give away your prints if you have any thoughts of selling anything to these same parents later.

Thanks, Dennis
This is a PRICELESS advice. Everybody who was in the same situation are against giving the stuff for free. I have change my mind and not gonna do it, but let the parents pay for it.

[burndog]

Originally Posted by dmwierz

Genna,



The only people who can answer your question are the parents themselves. I've been shooting kids stuff for a few years and still can't figure out why one shot sells and another doesn't. Sometimes I get what I consider to be a great shot of a kid, with a close-up of his face showing the "thrill of victory", and the parent buys the one of his back, 30 yards distant, running away.

Your shots show good action and have the players' faces and all, but I would suggest you work a little on your timing so that you not only are getting faces (and ball, and action) but also the kid's eyes, because it's the EYES that really pull at the parent's pocketbooks.

Having said that, I'd think any parent would be happy to have the shots you posted as they're much, much better than they would or could get themselves.

Also, regarding prices, this varies quite a bit, but a typical 4x6 goes for from $5 to $8 per print. What did you have in mind in terms of product offerings?

Oh, and BTW, you don't need a model release since you're not using these to sell anything else (like in a print or broadcast media ad) and since they were presumably taken at a public venue and event, where anyone could attend.

Dennis

I considered trying to maybe sell pic to soccer parents at my daughter's soccer games, but chickened out. The way I see it anyway is that you would still need a model release. For example, I shoot a picture of my daughter's teammate fighting for possession of the ball with a member of the other team. Now I offer to sell it to the teammates Mother. That seems fine, but I would not be pleased if I was the parent of the opposition player, afterall, they may see it as someone making money off of my child without my permission. I don't know all the legal ins and outs, but to be honest in the posted photos above ( nice shots by the way ), if one of them was my child I would not be pleased to see photos of him posted to the internet without my permission. I could be way off base. Maybe I am paranoid, but before I found trouble, I simply gave some pics to team members at the end of the season party.

[Mike R]

Originally Posted by burndog

I considered trying to maybe sell pic to soccer parents at my daughter's soccer games, but chickened out. The way I see it anyway is that you would still need a model release. For example, I shoot a picture of my daughter's teammate fighting for possession of the ball with a member of the other team. Now I offer to sell it to the teammates Mother. That seems fine, but I would not be pleased if I was the parent of the opposition player, afterall, they may see it as someone making money off of my child without my permission. I don't know all the legal ins and outs, but to be honest in the posted photos above ( nice shots by the way ), if one of them was my child I would not be pleased to see photos of him posted to the internet without my permission. I could be way off base. Maybe I am paranoid, but before I found trouble, I simply gave some pics to team members at the end of the season party.

You may not have anything to worry about. The only calls I get is from parents who want me to get more shots of their kid and the parents of the visiting team usually think that I'm with a local paper. Not all parents will purchase photos but all of them want to see shots of their kid in action. I never bothered trying to get releases for every kid on every team. There is a legal term "Undue Burden" and while I'm not an attorney, it may cover you. Basically it is saying that it would be very hard to be able to meet with all the parents to get releases signed. Check with an attorney.

I had the same concerns as you when I started 2 years ago but after reading may posts and doing other research, I found that most school sports photographers don't worry about it.

[WillMass]

Originally Posted by burndog

I don't know all the legal ins and outs, but to be honest in the posted photos above ( nice shots by the way ), if one of them was my child I would not be pleased to see photos of him posted to the internet without my permission. I could be way off base.

That's probably a good reason to talk to an attorney.

[cosworth]

My biggest success is selling by team(s). I tell the prospects that I will do it for X and will supply the entire team and they can split it. I shoot the TEAM, with specialized attention. If I'm lucky I also have the opposing team at the same time.

The person who is on site printing on demand taking orders for shots and having to employ 2-3 shooters at tournaments seems to have WAY too much overhead. I deliver prints or a DVD to the team a week later with zero stress. I walk in, shoot and leave.

Be aware though, that it's not everyone gives you $30 and you hand over a DVD. THE WHOLE team pools the cash and gives you the total before prints or DVD. That way you avoid someone paying you $30 for a dvd that gets copied 20 times or just passed around. Charge more for the DVD of course and reduced, print size jpg only.

[DD974]

Originally Posted by cosworth

My biggest success is selling by team(s). I tell the prospects that I will do it for X and will supply the entire team and they can split it. I shoot the TEAM, with specialized attention. If I'm lucky I also have the opposing team at the same time.

The person who is on site printing on demand taking orders for shots and having to employ 2-3 shooters at tournaments seems to have WAY too much overhead. I deliver prints or a DVD to the team a week later with zero stress. I walk in, shoot and leave.

Be aware though, that it's not everyone gives you $30 and you hand over a DVD. THE WHOLE team pools the cash and gives you the total before prints or DVD. That way you avoid someone paying you $30 for a dvd that gets copied 20 times or just passed around. Charge more for the DVD of course and reduced, print size jpg only.

Jason,

Did you pass out fliers or something to inform the participants about what you're offering. I'm doing a cheer comp. in Jan. and there will be several schools participating and at the most I'll have one person helping me, but I'll be shooting. I'm trying to nail down how to sell the images and I can't print them right there...many of these teams are traveling a long distance and I feel if I don't get them to pool together and sign-up and pay right there that it'll be a harder sell later because interest will wain and the next competition will come along.
I thought about getting the names and contact info, perferrably email address of each team's coach/advisor and sending a mass email to all of them with a flier(PDF) which will be the same one I'd have at the event. The email would make the offer to "pool" the parents to purchase a Team CD for everyone but the price would be $20 each if everyone participates or $30 each individually. In this flier I'd like to use the model you outlined for the "Team CD" and at the event I'll have a couple tables setup with business cards/fliers and maybe a banner with business name. This is my first large event like this and I'm trying to get all my ducks in a row....any advice would be appreciated.

[dmwierz]

Jason - Yes, that's a very effective way to sell. I'll tell interested folks that the price of a CD/DVD is $XXX, and suggest they solicit money from as many players/parents as possible. The more participation they get, the less the per-person charge is. If someone doesn't pay, I might still shoot the player (in case they change their mind and come back to me later - this has never happened, BTW), but I won't edit them or deliver images of non-participants on the CD.

I'll also shoot the other team for "stock" and approach them later to see if they'd be interested in buying a team CD/DVD.

In any event, the money is due 60% up front and 40% upon completion of the game - literally AT the game. Until they pay the balance, I don't even START to edit their shots. In these cases, I almost never sell prints, so there is no need to provide proofs or contact sheets. The parents take the files, or sometimes the CD/DVD to Costco or wherever and print the files themselves.

I offer a no questions asked, money-back guarantee to any parent who doesn't love the photo's of their kid.

Interestingly, I have never had a team complain that my fees are too high - even those that only had a handful of participants. In fact, my first independent customer was an individual mother who paid the entire fee herself. She was so happy that she called me on the phone crying, with her football player son in the background looking at the pictures. This was back when I had a "real" job, and this occurrence was one of the first times I realized what a cool thing it was to take pictures for a living (the only times I had ever made anyone cry at work prior to this was for the wrong reasons, being a boss, and all).

[hawk911]

great thread, as I'm in the same game. I want to shoot HS sports, and provide an outlet for parents that might be interested in the shots. I plan to develop a website and use a decent print house so the quality of the print will reflect the quality of the images. I want to keep a professional approach, and image so my work is not in question.

That's my goal, not what I currently do.

[superdiver]

I use smugmug (note, i am NOT trying to make a living at this) and it works out great!

I just tell the parents where to look for the pictures. Get a GoDaddy.com name that they can remember that will direct them to your site. I didnt have one at first and it didnt work well....ASK ME HOW I KNOW....LOL

Then they buy if they want...and word gets around fast!