Flash questions? multiple 580EX II or pro heads?

[johndoe_252]

Hello everyone,

I'm a bit confused... and i'd really apreciate some help regarding a choice a have to make...

I own already a 580EX II flash.. I'm quite new to flash imaging but i've worked a little with some studio pro flash heads...

I want to start building a small studio... Mainly product photography and also beauty/fashion/glamour/portraits. Also i want to do outdoor sessions..

I'm thinking that i can choose on either going slow and buying another 580ex II and later maybe an additional one or an 430ex II. This is a small investment at this moment but keep in mind that i'll need additional light standings, mounting, umbrella, softbox,etc.

Or i can directly buy an Hensel kit with 2 x 500w heads or some multiblitz 2x400w kit. Their price are around 1500Euros for each kit..

Can i do some good flash work with the 580ex II flashes? or should i go directly to the pro heads? What would be more wise?

Thanks a lot...

[dshankar]

The 580 EX IIs have excellent versatility, with the ability to be used in studio shoots with enough power/oomph to put in large softboxes/octoboxes. Yet, they are battery powered, which I feel is a HUGE hassle. Yet, the flexibily/versatility whatever is more important.

Just make sure you get a lot of NiMH batteries and recharge them at regular intervals!

[dshankar]

FYI, outdoor sessions are tough, when you have to overpower the ambient with a small camera flash.

Outdoors + 580 EX II + softbox in bright 3pm sunlight does NOT work.

If you don't use diffusers and use it directly, it may work.

In these instances, it may help to put two 580 EX IIs into a softbox (that has worked for me in the past). Then again, if you plan on doing a lot of outdoor sessions, its more economical/convenient to get a strobe such as the Alienbee B800 and a Vagabond battery pack (or a cheaper DIY battery pack).

[Curtis N]

Originally Posted by dshankar

FYI, outdoor sessions are tough, when you have to overpower the ambient with a small camera flash.

Outdoors + 580 EX II + softbox in bright 3pm sunlight does NOT work.

That really depends on the distance. I use a 580EX II + umbrella outdoors quite a bit, usually at half power or less. But you need to keep it close to your subject. Ok for headshots or maybe half length portraits, but not enough power for anything more.

To the OP: With Canon EX Speedlites, you're paying for advanced metering technology and compatibility with Canon cameras. But keep in mind that a 580EX II has no more power than the $80 Sunpak 383.

For portrait lighting, there are other routes to give you much more bang for your buck.

[cdifoto]

Why 580EX IIs? That's an expensive, overly complex solution to a rather simple problem.

If you want portability, get cheap manual flashes. Vivitar 285HVs can be purchased brand new for 1/5th the cost of a 580EX II and they have pretty much the same maximum power.

If you want to overpower the sun & use modifiers, get studio heads and lug around the corresponding power requirements.

[johndoe_252]

:dshankar i don't mind changing batteries.... anyway if this becomes a hassle i think there are some external psu for 580exII... and also batteries are a plus if thinking of outdoor sessions...

can you please tell me what softbox did u used when attaching 2 x 580ex?
anyway the outdoor sessions are not the most important ones...


:cdifoto i know that there are cheaper solutions but i think that 580exII's are quality products and also have IR triggering included.. not to mention the weather proof feature...


anyway... what amount of power do u think it's necessary for outdoor sessions? and what amount of W/s are the 580exII supposed to be?


thanks...

[cdifoto]

IR triggering needs line-of-sight. It's ok, but not always reliable. If you're serious about it, you should use a radio triggering system, IMHO.

Radio triggering means no E-TTL unless you go with those Radio Poppers. If you're not using E-TTL, you can use cheaper strobes. The consistency of manual is better than ETTL, IMHO.

If I'm in a precarious situation, I'd rather lose a $40-90 flash than a $400 one. My insurance deductible precludes me from filing a claim either way.

[johndoe_252]

:Curtis N - how would you compare a 580ex II with a studio flash head of let's say 400w/s? half of it? 1/4 of it?

for portrait lightning? what other routes are you saying?


:cdifoto

thanks for all this details... i'm already aware of the limitations of the IR triggering and i already know about those cactus triggers/pocket wizard/radio poppers..
you are very kind to share all that with me...

would an investment in a studio heads kit would be more wise? i know that the price difference is quite big but thinking on long term... and supposing that after a while i'll be doing more outdoor sessions... what do u think?

[dshankar]

Starting out, I don't think so. Once you get your own studio and get settled, then yes.

I mean, you can get the same pictures out of a 'pro flash head' and a 'canon flash.' It's the same light coming out (generally, color shift blah blah blah)

Your question on 'power' -
a.) watt-seconds are a measure of input, not a measure of light output
b.) check and see if your current 580 EX II is powerful enough to do portraits and studio work. If it is, then just get more flashes for fill, background lights, hair lights etc. If its not, you need a more powerful key light.

[Curtis N]

Comparing the output of a hotshoe flash to a studio strobe is difficult, but when I used a light meter to compare the 580EX II to my B1600 (640 wattseconds), firing them both into the same umbrella, I got about 4 stops less light with the 580EX.

Theoretically, that puts the 580EX II at about 40 wattseconds.

Remember that wattseconds is a measurement of energy usage, not light output. But in practical terms, you would need ten 580EX II units to get as much light as a 400ws strobe, if you were using the same modifier.

The reflector and fresnel lens of a hotshoe flash makes it extremely efficient by directing most of the light into your field of view. Diffuse the light in any way, and that efficiency is gone.

[johndoe_252]

:Curtis N - that's exactly what i wanted to know... not something exact.. but only an order of measurement...

I'm afraid that taking the 580exII way will be very soon a dead end and also afraid of having a big restraint regarding the power i can use..

:dshankar - this discussion was from the beginning with the thought that i want do build my own studio.

i think from what i've heard from you i have to decide between power and mobility. the 580ex will be very easily carried on locations..

if i would choose the studio strobe solution... would you choose

Multiblitz Profilux 400
Flash power: 400 Ws.Control range: 50-400 J/Ws.Recycling time: 0,5-1,3 sec.Flash duration: 1/200-1/700 sec.Halogen modeling light 100%: 150 W.Integral long range slave cell with IR function.Optical and acoustic firing monitor.Weight: 1,85 kg. Equipped with the P-type bayonet.

either

Hensel Expert Pro Plus 500

Stored energy: 500 J Recharging up to 1/1: 2,2 s Recharging up to 1/16: 0,5 s Flash Duration t 0,5 (1/1 Energy): 1/1600 s Flash Duration t 0,1 (1/1 Energy): 1/500 s Aperture at 1m (2m), 100 ASA, t 1/60: f 64,7 (f32,7)** Power control flash: in 1/10 f: 6f Output adjustment modeling light: off/ full/ proportional/autoreduction Modeling Lamp: 300 W/G 6,35 Remote control: Radio control, power, adj. mod. lamp, syn. Measurements, L x W x H: 33 x 15 x 23 cm Weight: 2,87 kg


I think that the main difference between the two is the triggering. Multiblitz still has IR triggering, and hensel has either IR or Radio.
I know that radio si the way but i'm looking at the Multiblitz specs and they seem better. Is the IR triggering of pro studio heads weak as one of the hotshow flash?

thanks a lot for all the info...

[dcmiles]

the 580exII is "supposed to be" around 60ws of power. however i have read someplace that claimed 90ws of power from them. my personal experiences would lean much closer to the 60ws previously stated. thus making an ab1600 flash @640ws around 10 times the "relative power" of the 580exII. i personally use both and for vastly different applications. if i need to shoot mid-day 11-3ish, i use the ab1600 and a 5 foot octobox. there are times when i use 2 580's firing into one shoot through wescot umbrella to simulate my octobox set up with awesome results. for almost EVERYTHING else, i just use 1,2,3, or more 580exII's.

just my .02, hope it helps a little.

[dcmiles]

for what its worth, i shoot people. mostly lifestyle photography with a small amount of fashion and a small amount of wedding/engagement. i use 580's 99 percent of the time and the ab1600 for the other 1 percent.