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Old 4th of October 2010 (Mon)   #1
snails
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Default Profesionalism. *Soapbox Warning*

Frankly, I'm disappointed.

My back story is this: I recently started taking photos of high school football at the invitation of a friend of mine who is coaching the team. So, I've been working to build a business relationship with the school. Frankly it's been my first real push to make any real money from my photos.

Last week the team played against one of several surrounding high schools that are more... well off. The visiting team brought their own photographer. I'm totally ok with this, I regularly share the field with the school's yearbook and photo club students. I'm not worried about sales, and I'm not territorial.

What wasn't ok was the photographer's level of professionalism. When I tried to have a friendly conversation with the visiting photog, a guest, he was curt and rude. Additionally, he helped himself to the entire field and spent significant time on the home team's sideline. A fact the coaches were not happy with.

What's wrong with people? Can't anyone be professional and courteous? Friendly? I'm not stealing anyone's business. I didn't feel the need to get back to his side of the field, but I could have. Instead I tried to make nice, say "hi" ask him where he's from.
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Old 4th of October 2010 (Mon)   #2
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Default Re: Profesionalism. *Soapbox Warning*

Without knowing the exact circumstances a few things come to mind.

If a visiting team brings a photographer to my school I'm always happy to help out, unless the game going on. If you were talking to him during the game I can see why you'd get the brush off. If it was well before or after, then maybe the person is just anti-social, who knows, shrug it off.

If the coaches weren't happy with where he was, the AD or Assistant AD should have moved him, pretty cut and dry there.
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Old 4th of October 2010 (Mon)   #3
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Default Re: Profesionalism. *Soapbox Warning*

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Originally Posted by polarbare View Post
Without knowing the exact circumstances a few things come to mind.

If a visiting team brings a photographer to my school I'm always happy to help out, unless the game going on. If you were talking to him during the game I can see why you'd get the brush off. If it was well before or after, then maybe the person is just anti-social, who knows, shrug it off.

If the coaches weren't happy with where he was, the AD or Assistant AD should have moved him, pretty cut and dry there.
You're excusing bad behavior? Is it common for sports photogs to be jerks? Should I brush up on my cold demeanor? He was the guest, I was with the home team.

My attempt at socialization were not during the game.

The AD takes a backseat at the games lets the coaches run the show, and the coaches had their hands full with coaching the game.
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Old 4th of October 2010 (Mon)   #4
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Default Re: Profesionalism. *Soapbox Warning*

Not everyone wants to jabber-jaw. Not stopping to talk to you isn't "bad behavior" - it's just not behavior you expect and prefer. It's not the end of the world either.

The coaches can bring the issue of photographers being in the way (which I would agree is bad behavior) with their AD and their AD can be more observant next time.
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Last edited by cdifoto : 4th of October 2010 (Mon) at 18:19.
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Old 4th of October 2010 (Mon)   #5
snails
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Default Re: Profesionalism. *Soapbox Warning*

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Originally Posted by cdifoto View Post
Not everyone wants to jabber-jaw. Not stopping to talk to you isn't "bad behavior" - it's just not behavior you expect and prefer. It's not the end of the world either.

The coaches can bring the issue of photographers being in the way (which I would agree is bad behavior) with their AD and their AD can be more observant next time.
I wasn't asking the guy to give me his life's story, simply an introduction. I wasn't interrupting his shooting, he wasn't taking pictures at the time. I promise I'm not making a big deal over the fact that he didn't want to talk, but he gave the impression that he thought he was better than me.

It doesn't take a whole lot of time to be polite either. That you are defending his actions is just plain silly.
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Old 4th of October 2010 (Mon)   #6
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Default Re: Profesionalism. *Soapbox Warning*

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I promise I'm not making a big deal over the fact that he didn't want to talk, but he gave the impression that he thought he was better than me
Actually it would appear that you are making a big deal of it. I don't want to appear that I am taking sides, after all we only have your take on the situation. When I am working a venue I don't go out of my way to get to know any other photographers that happen to be there. I am totally focused on the task at hand. Do you know how many of these introductions a person can go through at some events. Maybe this guy has just had enough. I will always try and make time for those that want to chit chat when I have time or we are sitting around the in the press facility. Sometimes I shudder when I see someone coming at me because you never know if it is a mere "Hi, how are you" or something much more long winded.

I say live and learn. Wait until you happen to bump into in on the sidelines so that it is more casual or wait until half time. As far as staying on one side of the field, perhaps it was lighting or something that he saw that simply made him prefer that side. I don't do high school sports so I wouldn't know if there is a "rule" about this or not. I've worked some venues where I see where another photographer is and I say, "Damn I hope he moves soon" because I want it but if he doesn't I can only be mad at myself for not being there early enough to snag it.

You will have to become a little thicker skinned than you are as this happens quite often. I am not saying it is right, it is part of life. Move on.
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Old 5th of October 2010 (Tue)   #7
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Default Re: Profesionalism. *Soapbox Warning*

Quote:
Originally Posted by snails View Post
I promise I'm not making a big deal over the fact that he didn't want to talk, but he gave the impression that he thought he was better than me.

It doesn't take a whole lot of time to be polite either. That you are defending his actions is just plain silly.
hmmm... but you may be assuming incorrect impressions. unless he actually said something about your equipment, your abilities, etc. it may just be the difference between a busy professional on a tight schedule and ..... you !
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Old 4th of October 2010 (Mon)   #8
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Default Re: Profesionalism. *Soapbox Warning*

Quote:
Originally Posted by cdifoto View Post
Not everyone wants to jabber-jaw. Not stopping to talk to you isn't "bad behavior" - it's just not behavior you expect and prefer. It's not the end of the world either.

The coaches can bring the issue of photographers being in the way (which I would agree is bad behavior) with their AD and their AD can be more observant next time.
Co-sign with this.
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Old 4th of October 2010 (Mon)   #9
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Default Re: Profesionalism. *Soapbox Warning*

Remember, he was working. He may have been on the hook to get multiple pictures of every kid on his team, etc. Yeah, it'd be nice if he was friendly, but he is on the clock and he's got a lot to capture over the course of only about an hour+.
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Old 4th of October 2010 (Mon)   #10
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Default Re: Profesionalism. *Soapbox Warning*

The advantage to being on the opposing teams sideline------>>>Is you get "your team" in the background. Seems like a sensible move.

There a lot of reasons people don't hit it off...It could be anything. Don't worry about it.

You do your thing and like water off a ducks back...let it roll off, why let it ruin your day?
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Old 5th of October 2010 (Tue)   #11
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Default Re: Profesionalism. *Soapbox Warning*

To tell the truth, most PRO photographers love to talk to each other, in the down time. During the game, you start to chat and you will get dirty looks. The other issue is walking across my shots. You need to keep the other shooters in mind when you move around to not walk across their shots. But I think this is another issue, my guess is the other guy is NOT a pro (sports photographer).

He may be just you just starting out. Most pro sports shooters do not bother with HS sports unless there is something special about the game or team. So that most likely means he is a beginner, or a wedding and portrait shooter that wants to get into team stuff. He may see you as a threat to any potential sales of images he shoots.

Like others have said don't sweat it. Shooting for cash is not like shooting in a photo club. If you don't get the shot you don;t get paid. It is just that simple. I am getting more and more cantankerous in my old age. It seems every time I pull out my gear it attracts some idiot that wants to know the price, the weight, this that or other fact. I am working and don't want to chat unless it is down time between aircraft.
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Old 5th of October 2010 (Tue)   #12
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Default Re: Profesionalism. *Soapbox Warning*

I don't shoot sports. Are Photographers only allowed to be on the side of the team they are working for? I would think coaches could care less. Seems to me they would only get concerned if you interfere with the game.

Some people are just not outgoing.
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Old 5th of October 2010 (Tue)   #13
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Default Re: Profesionalism. *Soapbox Warning*

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Originally Posted by zagiace View Post
I don't shoot sports. Are Photographers only allowed to be on the side of the team they are working for? I would think coaches could care less. Seems to me they would only get concerned if you interfere with the game.

Some people are just not outgoing.
That's it in a nutshell. Go where you need to go, but stay out of the way and everything is usually fine.

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Old 5th of October 2010 (Tue)   #14
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Default Re: Profesionalism. *Soapbox Warning*

The same rule applies to bus drivers, you can't talk to them whist they are working.

This is a pointless rant, I am a nice guy but I don't talk to anyone when I am working either.
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Old 5th of October 2010 (Tue)   #15
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Default Re: Profesionalism. *Soapbox Warning*

Quote:
You're excusing bad behavior? Is it common for sports photogs to be jerks? Should I brush up on my cold demeanor? He was the guest, I was with the home team.
My attempt at socialization were not during the game.
#1 - I never said I agreed with him, I said without knowing the circumstances I wasn't ready to judge him as rude and arrogant like you are. If I'm on the sideline of a game I'm working even if I'm not shooting at that particular time. Want to chat with me? I'd love to, away from the field.

#2 - You seem to think that because you work for the home team and you're both photographers that he somehow owed it to you to be nice and interact with you, he doesn't.

I'm not saying you're wrong or that he was right, just that some photogs aren't going to want to chat and that is there prerogative. Life is too short to worry about something this insignificant enough to go home and post about it on the internet. He snubbed you, just tell yourself he's a jerk and go on to the next thing..

Quote:
The AD takes a backseat at the games lets the coaches run the show, and the coaches had their hands full with coaching the game.
Your AD needs to reread what it means to be an AD, this is precisely the type of thing that they should be handling at a game because the coaches shouldn't be worrying about those types of things
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Last edited by polarbare : 5th of October 2010 (Tue) at 11:30.
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