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FORUMS Canon Cameras, Lenses & Accessories Canon EOS Digital Cameras
Thread started 25 Jan 2011 (Tuesday) 23:36
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Canon's Camera devolution

 
smorter
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Jan 25, 2011 23:36 |  #1

Although I'm a Canon fanboy, I'm also realistic. Canon's camera range is in a sad state at the moment.

The fact of the matter is, Canon is now like Intel was about 10 years ago. AMD was able to offer the Athlon chip with better performance, for less money than the Pentium III. Intel could only rely on its market reputation, and its contracts with computer manufacturers, to remain competitive.

We have a Nikon D3S that is in pretty much in every way superior to the 1D Mark IV. We have a Nikon D700 which is superior to the 5D mark II for those who don't need the megapixels (with its usable AF). We have a Nikon D3X which is in every way as good as the 1Ds Mark III IQ wise, and is better in all other regards.

Prior to the release of the D3, Canon were leaders in high ISO performance in every way. The 5D classic spat up and chewed even the Dx series Nikon. Now, we're content and feel relieved with statements like "the 5D2 is "only" 1 stop worse than the D3s" as if that is an acceptable margin. How sad we have become as Canon users...

Canon's eagerly awaited 5D Mark II was released with "Evolution" fanfare. Instead, it was a devolution to ISO 100 banding and the same, borderline usable AF. If they meant the evolution of the Dinosaurs to Cavemen - they succeeded

Similarly, Nikon are starting to jump ahead in the lens ranks too. They are able to offer lenses like the 14-24G cheaper than the 14mm prime from Canon, yet most will acknowledge the Nikon zoom is a far superior performer, at least in versatility if not IQ.

Hopefully, we will see Canon wake up and become the market leaders and innovators again, as Intel has done. But at this point in time, the Canon top end line up is a disgrace compared to the breadth and quality of Nikon's offerings.

My fellow Canon fanboys will offer up excuses such as:

"Canon's lens offerings are better"
> Such as? Like the 24LII? Oh, Nikon has one now. Like the 70-200 f/2.8L II? Oh, Nikon has a v2 too. Like the 24-70? Oh, Nikon has a far better one. Like the 14 f/2.8L II? Oh, Nikon has a 14-24G
etc. etc.

"Canon's lens offerings are cheaper"
> Such as? Like the cheaper 70-200 VR? Like the cheaper 14-24G? Like the cheaper 24 f/1.4? The only Nikon lenses that are more expensive are the supertelephotos...I don't think these are everyday lenses for most of us.

"Different cameras have different purposes. The 5D series aren't designed for sports"
> Aren't designed for sports? Or just not capable of sports because of inferior features?

"Canon has better video"
> Yay. That makes our photographs better eh?

Am I being too harsh? Your thoughts?


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r31ncarnat3d
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Jan 25, 2011 23:48 |  #2

I'd like to bring up a counterargument from a different standpoint: that of the beginner.

Compared to most people here I'm still relatively new to photography. I started in Sept of '09 with a Rebel XTi. At the time, I was comparing the Canon XTi/XSi to the Nikon D40/D40x. I studied both systems with the viewpoint of a beginner: would I be able to get the system I want going into Canon or Nikon?

I went with Canon because I saw (and still see) their beginner systems as superior. Nikon's entry level bodies lack an AF motor even today. People usually bring up "but that only matters with legacy glass". The issue was that from the get-go I was interested in prime lenses. Most of Nikon's affordable primes (with the exception of the AF-S 35mm f/1.8) are AF lenses, meaning I would not be able to autofocus with them on any Nikon body I could afford. With Canon however, every prime lens would have autofocus capabilities.

Another (although less important) point for me was the proliferation of USM vs. SWM. I was lucky enough to use my friends' gear before buying my DSLR and I fell in love with USM/SWM before I bought my XTi. The AF system is amazingly quick and helped me nab some great shots. Since I like to do a lot of candid photography, emotions on subjects faces can vanish in a second. With my old 50mm f/1.8 I lost a lot of good shots because the AF system was simply too slow. With Canon, I was lucky enough that most of the consumer ($300-$600) lenses were equipped with USM, and that USM was far more prevalent than SWM.

Until this day I don't regret my choice. I may not be as experienced as you or many POTN users, but I still feel Canon served my needs well. Before I upgraded to my current 50D, I was already using prime lenses on my XTi. I got some great shots out of my old 50mm f/1.8 and 28mm f/2.8, and still continue to get great photos out of my current 50mm f/1.4.

Do I believe Nikon's current body offerings have a better feature set than Canon's? I definitely do (I still long for in-body wireless flash control in my 50D and an improved AF system), but my most important needs are being met well by Canon.

Just my two cents :)


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edmyloo
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Jan 25, 2011 23:55 |  #3

Smorter has some pretty good points. From what I've seen, Nikon and Sony have really been stepping up their game while Canon rides on it's name. Subscribing! :D


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SASman
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Jan 25, 2011 23:57 |  #4

It seems as the industry as a whole has taken a shift to the casual consumer market. Consumer grade cameras are the biggest sellers, so they get the most constant tweaks and evolution.

I would imagine professional end camera users already have a very large investment in the equipment they've bought. They've already invested in a "system" so to speak. If all their lenses, flashes, cards and batteries etc. are Canon, small variances due to competition will not be enough to make them jump ship. The competition for loyalty is not so high. Regardless of small differences, they will / cannot abandon their chosen brand.

In the consumer grade market however, the competition is very high. Average consumers can change a system much quicker based on impulse or "the latest gimmick". They don't have large investment in one brand. They don't need to be as loyal. IF Canon loses this large part of the market, it could impact how they sustain the rest of their line. So competition at that level actually matters more than what one might expect. R31ncarnat3d gave a very valid view.

Canon and Nikon will always be in fluctuation with each other. But it has a bigger impact on the lower end of their line. The professional end competition will come, and it will be very interesting to see where they go next.


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dudemanppl
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Jan 26, 2011 00:10 |  #5

5DII works fine for sports. I came from a D3, don't see a difference except I can only use center point now, but whatever.




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r31ncarnat3d
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Jan 26, 2011 00:11 |  #6

dudemanppl wrote in post #11715710external link
5DII works fine for sports.

Oh hai there fellow Canon shooter :p


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HyperYagami
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Jan 26, 2011 00:16 |  #7

I think your comparison is extremely unfair.

There's no 50mm or 85mm f/1.2 on Nikon land (MF only).

On crop-land, they have no 17-55mm with IS/VR.

Their 24-70mm came out 5 years after Canon, it better be better than Canon's (of course people must have bitched about "5 years after Canon's and still no VR!?!?!?").

Their 14-24mm for now yes it's better, but Canon already have a patent of their own version.

The grass is always greener on the other side.



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monk3y
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Jan 26, 2011 00:22 |  #8

I am a Nikon shooter now... switched because it was cheaper for me coming from a 500D going to D700 than 5D MKII with very minimal lenses.

but I would hesitate to comment here until after I see what is cooking for this year.

I am pretty positve a 5D MKIII or a D800 is coming... and probably a 1DsIV also... so its not really the end for you guys shooting Canon :D


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r31ncarnat3d
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Jan 26, 2011 00:24 |  #9

monk3y wrote in post #11715749external link
I am a Nikon shooter now... switched because it was cheaper for me coming from a 500D going to D700 than 5D MKII with very minimal lenses.

but I would hesitate to comment here until after I see what is cooking for this year.

I am pretty positve a 5D MKIII or a D800 is coming... and probably a 1DsIV also... so its not really the end for you guys shooting Canon :D

Heard that was Q4 2011 though, so still a ways off.


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monk3y
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Cloud and Honey
Jan 26, 2011 00:26 |  #10

HyperYagami wrote in post #11715731external link
I think your comparison is extremely unfair.

There's no 50mm or 85mm f/1.2 on Nikon land (MF only).

On crop-land, they have no 17-55mm with IS/VR.

Their 24-70mm came out 5 years after Canon, it better be better than Canon's (of course people must have bitched about "5 years after Canon's and still no VR!?!?!?")

Their 14-24mm for now yes it's better, but Canon already have a patent of their own version.

Grass is always greener on the other side.

yeap it could always be argued... he had some valid points, you have some valid points as well :D

as what he said, currently Nikon has better offering than Canons... and as what I said, it would be pretty interesting this year. who knows Canon might release a 24-70mm IS :lol:


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monk3y
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Cloud and Honey
Jan 26, 2011 00:27 |  #11

r31ncarnat3d wrote in post #11715754external link
Heard that was Q4 2011 though, so still a ways off.

we'll never know :lol:


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Erik_L
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Jan 26, 2011 00:51 |  #12

I can easily mount a 14-24 Nikon on my Canon.... but not the other way around. best of both worlds?

I've tested the 5D II's AF pretty extensively and have very, VERY few shots that go in the trash due to missed focus. Either you're doing it wrong or you have too high of expectations.


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FlyingPhotog
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Jan 26, 2011 01:01 |  #13

I think until your gear list is filled with Nikon stuff, you need to put down the spoon and quit stirring the damn pot so much...

If you're so damn disappointed with Canon, sell it all and move on. You're like a broken record.


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Matthew ­ Hicks ­ Photography
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Jan 26, 2011 01:24 |  #14

Well, I've got hope. Camera manufacturers leapfrog, that's how it is. I'm looking forward to the 5D Mark III or whatever it turns out to be, and if that doesn't pan out, whatever full frame they have after that. There's also hope for an IS standard F/2.8 zoom, but it's only hope.
I doubt Canon's going to go into a huge downward slide, it's not like the 5D Mark II is a horrible camera.


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nicksan
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Jan 26, 2011 01:26 |  #15

I switched to Nikon back in April 2010. The reason was extremely specific to me. That's really all I can base things off. I don't regret the decision but overall, aside from the 1D4 debacle, I was very happy with Canon and in some ways miss it.

I think both brands offer something for everyone. However I would have to agree that currently Nikon is doing better as far as putting out well thought out cameras with the photographer in mind.

But as someone mentioned, it goes back and forth and this competition can only benefit us.

I look forward to finding out what's in store from each camp. I'm sure Canon will push out some exciting products in due time.


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Canon's Camera devolution
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