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Thread started 23 Mar 2012 (Friday) 10:03
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Nikon D800 tested at DxOMark, gets the #1 spot

 
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DarthVader
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Mar 23, 2012 21:55 |  #61

Wow even D7000 is better than $20,000 Hassy :lol:

http://www.dxomark.com ...0/%28brand2%29/Hass​elbladexternal link

I guess Vogue photographers have been using D7000 lately :lol:.


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The ­ Fox
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Mar 23, 2012 21:56 |  #62

borism wrote in post #14139115external link
Now i have a question, Canon on Dxo is always way down on the scale compared with Nikon , Sony etc.. why is that and what does that mean in real life?

It is a very special site, I personally dont view DxO labs as anything scientific anymore. I refuse to believe that a D3x is better then my P65+ digital back. There is no way in hell, and I still feel that DxO labs can just disassemble nikon files better then other manufactures. I have owned a D3x, and it has a lot less dynamic range, detail and image sharpness at 100% and the color was not as accurate. The nikon had issues with greens being really yellow, and reds being way to over saturated, while the digital backs has none of those issues at all and renders color extremely neutral. The shadow detail on the nikon is not as smooth when you try to bring it back as it is with the digital back, same with highlights. The highlights on the D3x are not really smooth when you go too far over and tend to loose much of the color saturation. The P65+ files tend to hold the color detail better and show more gradiance around the blown out areas while the nikon creates a blown out blob on the image that has rather hard edges. Even my friends 22mp leaf back on his hasselblad is sharper and far better in everything besides noise performance.


"I work from awkwardness. By that I mean I don't arrange things. If I stand in front of something, instead of arranging it, I arrange myself" -Diane Arbus
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MrWho
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Mar 23, 2012 21:59 |  #63

Shadowblade wrote in post #14142617external link
The numbers give you a way to quantify the quality of the image the camera is capable of producing, independent of variables you can't correct for, e.g. the photographer.

So images aren't important, only numbers.

Like I said, I criticized one, so I'll criticize the other. I should've said earlier, it would be unfair to criticize Pop Photo for doing the same thing DxOMark is doing, yet praise DxOMark's word and worship it as the truth.

The flaws and hilarity of some of DxOMark's results have already been pointed out and discussed, I don't need to any further.


Gear

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liupublic
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Mar 23, 2012 22:09 |  #64

ejenner wrote in post #14142634external link
OK, explain this:

http://www.dxomark.com .../483|0/%28brand2%29​/Canonexternal link

Both have the same DR despite the much higher noise in the S100 and much lower sensel well capacity. How does that make physical sense?

S100 sensor uses micro-lenses and on-chip noise cancellation system. This can boost dynamic range quite significantly but does not help ISO noise too much.

So with good light, S100 is actually a very good camera capable of great pictures at 12 megapixels.

It might surprise many people here that Canon DSLR sensor does not utilize the most advance image sensor technology out there. Most of the technology advance is actually in smaller size image sensor. The reasoning is quite simple: market size. Many more cell phone, laptop, tablet and etc with image sensor than DSLRs. Most of the DSLR users don't care enough anyway to shoot in Raw to get the best dynamic range.

It's similar to Sony sensors (inside lots of Nikon DSLR) of having much better measurement results than Canon DSLR sensors. Sony image sensor are often the best mass market sensors. Micro-lenses is one such example. With very small amount of real estate to capture photon signals, micro lens is developed as a way to reduce photon reflection from signal interconnects and focus them directly to the sensor site bury underneath. BSI and 3d stacking of image processing circuit are two other examples.

And yes, I am an engineer working in the semiconductor industry for the last 14 yrs.

Sensor size is very critical, but it's not the only thing.

Anyway, DxOMark results basically tell me this:
On a D800 w/ raw shooting, it's possible to underexpose by 2 stops and still be able to pull the same details out of the dark area as a 5d2. That's pretty impressive. That will come in pretty in harsh light conditions. Don't know how it will compares to 5d3 but I doubt 5d3's sensor has made much of a difference in dynamic range.


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elitejp
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Mar 23, 2012 22:24 |  #65

MrWho wrote in post #14142391external link
Using computers to say 1 camera is better than another. I like the take pictures and judge with your own eyes method more. Looking at pictures is more fun than looking at numbers anyway.

I dont know how anyone can do that looking at pics off the internet. Even full size images i have a very hard time telling the difference when a tester uses different cameras to take the exact same picture. Ive seen on this forum how some have looked at a full size 5d3 or a d800 pic and one will say how they think its soft and another will say how its bleeding sharp.:rolleyes: I think some people are taking this thing a little too personally. If canon got higher points i think everyone would be praising dx0mark. lol In any case BOTH are really good cameras.


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jwcdds
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Mar 23, 2012 22:34 |  #66

Shadowblade wrote in post #14142320external link
That's not necessarily true. You can increase contrast without decreasing DR.

Generally, when you increase contrast, you're shifting the midtones further from the mid-point by a much greater degree than the highlights and the shadows. For instance, a value of 155 (out of 255) might go to 180, whereas a value of 20 might only got to 16, and a value of 235 might only go to 240. A value of 254 would probably stay as 254. You've increased the contrast, but haven't decreased the dynamic range - the shadow and highlight detail is still there, just compressed into narrower bands at each end (and probably not compressed all that much).

In contrast, if you don't have the dynamic range, what would have been values of 235-255 (for instance) would all be 255, and what would have been values of 1-20 would all be 0.

Probably. I don't know all the numbers. Someday, if I'm fortunate enough to test out the D800, I can give it a try to see whether it is something that I would want to shoot with. But as per my sig... ignorance is bliss. :lol:


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Shadowblade
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Mar 23, 2012 22:46 |  #67

DxOMark doesn't correct for sensor size.

Basically, if two sensors achieve the same score in one particular aspect and are the same size, their performance with respect to that particular measure should be the same. If one sensor is larger than the other, you need to apply a correction for sensor size to determine which is better. What the score means, however, is that, if the larger sensor were cropped to the size of the smaller one, the performance of the smaller sensor will be equal to the performance of the cropped area from the larger sensor.

For instance, if two sensors - a full-frame 24x36mm sensor and a medium-format 36x48 sensor - both scored 1120 on the high-ISO test, it would mean that a 24x36mm crop of the MF sensor would have the same high-ISO performance as a 24x36mm crop of the full-frame sensor (i.e. the whole sensor area). In practice, this would mean that, since the MF sensor is double the area of the full-frame sensor, its high-ISO performance would be one stop better. If the full-frame sensor scored 2240 and the MF sensor 1120, however, the overall high-ISO performance would be the same.




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Shadowblade
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Mar 23, 2012 22:47 |  #68

No, what it means is that the D7000 sensor is better than a Hasselblad shot cropped to the same sensor area as the D7000.

Given that the D7000 sensor is much smaller than the Hasselblad sensor, it would need to score much better than the Hasselblad to have the same overall IQ.




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rick_reno
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Mar 24, 2012 00:17 |  #69

I'm waiting to get the word from the guys at Best Buy, they're experts and wouldn't steer us wrong.

Seriously, Nikon has hit a home run with this body.




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williejr
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Mar 24, 2012 00:31 |  #70

DarthVader wrote in post #14142756external link
Wow even D7000 is better than $20,000 Hassy :lol:

http://www.dxomark.com ...0/%28brand2%29/Hass​elbladexternal link

I guess Vogue photographers have been using D7000 lately :lol:.

Hardly... but if you pull out a D7000 at a Vogue photo shoot, you might as well kill yourself or look for another line of work. :lol:


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DarthVader
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Mar 24, 2012 00:49 |  #71

Wow my D700 is as good as the $8,000 1DS3

http://www.dxomark.com .../436|0/%28brand2%29​/Canonexternal link

Thank you DxO :lol:...although not sure how come D700 output is pretty dull though :lol:.


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jwcdds
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Mar 24, 2012 00:53 |  #72

DarthVader wrote in post #14143465external link
Wow my D700 is as good as the $8,000 1DS3

http://www.dxomark.com .../436|0/%28brand2%29​/Canonexternal link

Thank you DxO :lol:...although not sure how come D700 output is pretty dull though :lol:.

If you play your cards right, you might be able to sell your D700 for $7500 to some unsuspecting soul by giving them the DxO link and use the extra money to buy the D800. :)


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DarthVader
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Mar 24, 2012 00:53 |  #73

:lol: the magazine will change its name to Vague :lol:.

williejr wrote in post #14143409external link
Hardly... but if you pull out a D7000 at a Vogue photo shoot, you might as well kill yourself or look for another line of work. :lol:


Nikon/Fuji.
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DarthVader
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Mar 24, 2012 00:55 |  #74

:lol: let me start with some Nikon wannabees first :lol:.

jwcdds wrote in post #14143480external link
If you play your cards right, you might be able to sell your D700 for $7500 to some unsuspecting soul by giving them the DxO link and use the extra money to buy the D800. :)


Nikon/Fuji.
Gear is important but skills are very important :)

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Shadowblade
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Mar 24, 2012 01:00 |  #75

DarthVader wrote in post #14143465external link
Wow my D700 is as good as the $8,000 1DS3

http://www.dxomark.com​/index.php/Cameras/Com​pare-Camera-Sensors/Compare-cameras-side-by-side/%28appareil1%29/4​41|0/%28brand%29/Nikon​/%28appareil2%29/436|0​/%28brand2%29/Canonexternal link

Thank you DxO :lol:...although not sure how come D700 output is pretty dull though :lol:.

If you don't need 21MP, the D700 is just as good.

Remember, DxOMark's measures don't take sensor size or megapixels into account. They measure how good the output is per area of sensor, regardless of whether that area is divided into 1MP or 100MP. The D800 won't score any higher or lower just because it has 36MP and not 21 or 12. The iQ180 won't score better just because it has a bigger sensor. But, given that it has a bigger sensor, the output per area of sensor doesn't need to be as good to give a better overall result - a full-frame camera would need much better scores to overcome the size difference and equal the output of the iQ180. Similarly, a tiny s100 sensor could be a great-performing sensor - again, per area of sensor - just that it doesn't contain very much sensor. Therefore, it needs to perform much better than a larger sensor would in order to provide the same final image quality.




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