Recording concert in bar - 5D II first time advice?

[inernets]

Hello, i have been asked by my good friend to record some video of his band playing tonight and i want to try out my 5D II. I have never really recorded videos with it, i was wondering if there was anything more to just pointing and shooting, making sure it's in focus. Are there any settings to control the exposure? Can i set f-stop before hand or ISO?

Also one other thing, should i try to use my canon 50mm f1.8 if i have room or use my 16-35mm f2.8 . I also have the canon 24-105mm f4 which could be good too.

Lastly, should i just do a wide shot of the band, or try zooming in on the singer, guitarist, etc. I think it would be easier to just set it and not mess with it.

edit: They are the first to play a 30 min set
Thanks!

[ben_r_]

Read page 139 in the 5D2 user manual.

[inernets]

Thank you for the reply, i have returned, it will be interesting to see the results, it was very very dark and i shot at 1/30 sec with ISO 3200.

[joeblack2022]

Which lens did you end up using?

[NivoMedia]

I shoot a lot of club video (nivomedia.com if you want to see some samples)

To have success with te 5dmk2 you must always keep this in mind
- ISO should stay under 2000
- use cine style
- a 1.8 or a 1.4 lense I required to capture the atmosphere of the place
- use try to make the shots as stable as possible by using a shoulder rig, if you don't have one use your tripod

I know this is late by maybe helpful for next time

[Dfigs]

Did you shoot at 24 or 30fps? I have read that the shutter should be be double the frame rate. So, I'm interested in seeing the result.

[inernets]

hello all, sorry i didn't see this before. I ended up using my 24-105mm F4 so i could zoom. I thought it would be boring with the stationary angle and i wanted to experiment with zooming.

Like i said, i had it in Auto-ISO and it went to ISO 3200. I had no idea how the lighting would be, i have ZERO practice with filming a band or anything more than wildlife so i'm just happy the video was in focus (atleast i think it is.)

I would love some constructive criticism, because i enjoyed doing it and would like to do it more.

If you don't have much time to watch, just go to the 2:50 mark and you can see the best part of the video, me zooming in on the lead singer and guitarist (my friends) and i think that was the best moment i recorded of the concert. Please, i am so sorry you have to listen to the audio, they are pretty much friends with very little to no band experience, the lead singer was overcoming her fears to sing in public so i commend her effort.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=szwyfr794-k

I am looking at ways to improve the audio too. While recording, i over compensated also while shooting in AV mode (i believe, i don't remember what mode i was in) because i thought it was just way too dark. This was a last minute thing and i admit that i didn't have time to really research what i was doing. I would like to buy some kind of external mic or an audio recorder, looking to spend under $200 but i would be willing to spend more to produce better audio, especially if i get good enough to where i could possibly be hired by friends to record their concerts.

[inernets]

Originally Posted by NivoMedia

I shoot a lot of club video (nivomedia.com if you want to see some samples)

To have success with te 5dmk2 you must always keep this in mind
- ISO should stay under 2000
- use cine style
- a 1.8 or a 1.4 lense I required to capture the atmosphere of the place
- use try to make the shots as stable as possible by using a shoulder rig, if you don't have one use your tripod

I know this is late by maybe helpful for next time

Thanks for the suggestions! My tripod was not the best, for sure. Its for photography and has an extending central column which i know when i want to zoom in caused movement.

Next time i do this, i'm going to try to get my hands on 1 or 2 more video cameras so i can have one planted somewhere with a wide angle with another planted possibly and certainly me moving around and trying to get different angles instead of just having one stationary camera always showing the same angle.

Also in this situation, i felt kind of weird standing by a tripod in this punk -type bar, it was strange. I was kind of in the middle of the room and i know a lot of people were watching me. I am just glad i got through it without any major problems!

Originally Posted by Dfigs

Did you shoot at 24 or 30fps? I have read that the shutter should be be double the frame rate. So, I'm interested in seeing the result.

Honestly i do not remember, and don't even know how to change that setting, and didn't think i could, lol. So whatever is default is what i shot in, so i think it was the 29.97

And if someone missed the link in my previous post, here it is, and the 2:50 - 3:30ish mark is the best part to watch for my "zoom work"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=szwyfr794-k

[Kolor-Pikker]

I ended up using my 24-105mm F4 so i could zoom. I thought it would be boring with the stationary angle and i wanted to experiment with zooming.

F/4 is too slow for this purpose; you definitely need at least f/2 or faster.

Like i said, i had it in Auto-ISO and it went to ISO 3200

Never use auto ISO when recording video, it will cause sudden jumps in brightness if the lighting changes, also 3200 gets fairly messy, try to keep it low. Best ISO settings to use for video are: 160, 320, 640, 1250, etc.

While recording, i over compensated also while shooting in AV mode

You should spend some time learning how to set the exposure in manual mode and stay there; quality video starts when all your camera's auto functions stop.

I would like to buy some kind of external mic or an audio recorder, looking to spend under $200 but i would be willing to spend more to produce better audio

Take a look at the Rode videomics, they come in various flavours, and probably other similar models you can check out online. (preferably at B&H or Adorama)

My tripod was not the best, for sure. Its for photography and has an extending central column which i know when i want to zoom in caused movement.

Yep, the tripod is a big limitation, you should at least look into getting a fluid head for your current tripod if you're short on funds.

Honestly i do not remember, and don't even know how to change that setting, and didn't think i could, lol. So whatever is default is what i shot in, so i think it was the 29.97

He's referring to the shutter speed you can set when in manual mode, ideally this should be twice as fast as the frame rate to reduce blur, though you can go slower if you need the light sensitivity. For 29.97 this would be 1/60th shutter.

And finally, try to refrain from zooming while filming, zooms are used very rarely in 95% of all visual motion content - and when it is, it has to be done with good reason... Unless you intend to make a "found footage" or "home video" style movie that's so popular these days. Zoom shots you mostly see on live TV; and when there is only one camera on hand or in sports programming.

[inernets]

thanks for your reply. How about f2.8? I have the 16-35mm II and would like to try that, i also have the 50mm 1.8 and 85mm 1.8, but i think the 85mm would be too tight, i'm guessing i would have to go with my 50mm.

Did you get a chance to see the lighting of the place? What ISO would you have used? 1250?

i shot at 1/30 i believe, so it's better to do twice the speed so 1/60sec would have been good?

Interesting what you say about no zooming. I was the only one filming with my camera. So if you were me, would you have shot in 1/60sec, ISO 1250 with my 50mm f1.8 set at f1.8. If that were the case, if i were standing where i stood, would you just keep following the lead singer for the most part, and moving over to the guitarist while the singer isn't singing?

[Kolor-Pikker]

How about f2.8? I have the 16-35mm II and would like to try that, i also have the 50mm 1.8 and 85mm 1.8, but i think the 85mm would be too tight, i'm guessing i would have to go with my 50mm.

The 16-35mm would've been better, but for the lighting in that place, the 50 1.4 would have been best.

Did you get a chance to see the lighting of the place? What ISO would you have used? 1250?

Going from f/4 to f/1.8 is just under 3 stops of light, which would have been enough for both ISO640 and a shutter speed of 1/60th with the 50mm, assuming we kept the exposure about the same.

i shot at 1/30 i believe, so it's better to do twice the speed so 1/60sec would have been good?

Generally yes, but it's more of a guideline than anything, basically anything slower than 2x frame rate (1/30th @ 30fps) will show more blur than what people are typically used to on TV and in movies, while going faster (1/120th @ 30fps) will produce a crisper image but you run the risk of the image looking jittery.

Interesting what you say about no zooming. I was the only one filming with my camera. So if you were me, would you have shot in 1/60sec, ISO 1250 with my 50mm f1.8 set at f1.8. If that were the case, if i were standing where i stood, would you just keep following the lead singer for the most part, and moving over to the guitarist while the singer isn't singing?

This simply isn't a thing I'd film with only one camera, event work (particularly bands/music) really needs at least two cams to work, otherwise you're asking for trouble. I'm not saying it isn't possible, and people have done it with clever editing before, but it'd rather decline the offer rather than do something I would feel be half-baked. Sorry if this isn't of much help.

[inernets]

Originally Posted by Kolor-Pikker

The 16-35mm would've been better, but for the lighting in that place, the 50 1.4 would have been best.

Going from f/4 to f/1.8 is just under 3 stops of light, which would have been enough for both ISO640 and a shutter speed of 1/60th with the 50mm, assuming we kept the exposure about the same.

Generally yes, but it's more of a guideline than anything, basically anything slower than 2x frame rate (1/30th @ 30fps) will show more blur than what people are typically used to on TV and in movies, while going faster (1/120th @ 30fps) will produce a crisper image but you run the risk of the image looking jittery.


This simply isn't a thing I'd film with only one camera, event work (particularly bands/music) really needs at least two cams to work, otherwise you're asking for trouble. I'm not saying it isn't possible, and people have done it with clever editing before, but it'd rather decline the offer rather than do something I would feel be half-baked. Sorry if this isn't of much help.

i appreciate your knowledge and time responding to my questions, thank you. I have learned a lot about recording videos with DSLR's by your responses so that is awesome!

I see what you are saying, 2+ cameras is required for a good product. The only way i see i could do this without being boring is with some zoom action, especially when people were dancing and blocking my view (that is if i don't move or don't ask people to move). Anyways thanks again

[KurtGoss]

Originally Posted by Kolor-Pikker

F/4 is too slow for this purpose; you definitely need at least f/2 or faster.

HUH? I shoot concerts all the time in clubs and large theaters. I use a 70-200 f2.8 as the go to lens.... at ISO 1600 @ f11! So an f4 can get the shot at 1/30 - ISO 1600 or 3200 no problem. Using a tele will actually have better exposure in low light, since you can zoom in on the players -- where the light tends to be. The wider the lens, the more "black" you will have on stage. Even for photo stills, the 70-200 is the go to concert lens. I have a 50mm f1.2 and the 16-36mmII... I RARELY ever use the 16-35. 70-200mm, 300mm and 400mm tend to be used more.

Musicians on stage tend to be lighting situations that really push the limits of the dynamic range, so you have to shoot for the highlights.

Shooting flat picture style (CineStyle works perfect) is highly recommended.

Using a tele means a tripod is a must. Handheld tele looks awful. I have used a 400mm f2.8 from the balcony of large theaters and the quality is amazing. Using a 50mm or wider tends to look boring and "real far away" POV. You want to get right up into the action on stage. So even in a local club or bar, a 70-200 f4 is perfect lens.

If you are dark, bump up the ISO. Get good exposure and don't worry about the grain. Grain is better than black. Don't be afraid to go to ISO 3200 or HIGHER if needed!.

Always stay at 1/30th. Musicians on stage are always moving, so shallow depth of field will always make everything just look soft, I never go under f5.6. I always start at 1/30 and f5.6 / ISO 1600 and adjust the ISO for exposure. If there is enough light, I will bump up to f8 or f11. Just go for depth of field. You can try rack focusing, but things tend to move around too much for that technique to work, and you end up with out of focus footage. If you are shooting a staged event with multiple takes, then you can plan the action. But at a live event, just get as much depth of field as the light provides -- sharp focus saves the day. I can't tell you how many camera operators get zero useable footage because everything is soft. Especially rock bands with lead singer bouncing around.

Use a custom white balance and use it for the entire shoot. Color grade in post to bring out the color.

Sync audio from eternal recorder. Plural Eyes works wonders.

Use more than one camera. Always have a static straight on camera of the stage -- this is used as the "base shot" that you fall back to on the timeline while editing. Use the DSLRs with tele zoom shots to cut into the base straight on angle POV. 3 cams is the minimum... 5-6 on a bigger event with larger budget - where one camerman is dedicated to capture everything from ONE person on stage. Then you have close-ups of everyone for all songs. Makes it easy to edit the highlight for each song. The straight on camera is usually dead center above all crowd -- perfect straight on shot -- near the soundboard, so if possible, get an audio feed from there and feed it to the center camera.

HINT: Tell new camermen that you can't rotate the DSLR camera to vertical position -- you watch video in horizontal only. Had one guy come back with 50% of his video in vertical rotation... it looks great when lying down on the floor.

[tupper]

Originally Posted by Dfigs

Did you shoot at 24 or 30fps? I have read that the shutter should be be double the frame rate. So, I'm interested in seeing the result.

Work with some Hollywood cinematographers, this was the way they did it. Shooting at 24fps would equate to 1/50 shutter (48 isn't an option obviously).

[KurtGoss]

Originally Posted by tupper

Work with some Hollywood cinematographers, this was the way they did it. Shooting at 24fps would equate to 1/50 shutter (48 isn't an option obviously).

24fps vs. 30 fps.
Use 24 if you are mixing the footage with Other footage done on film (24fps). But if you are going to distribute on the web, or DVD or Blu-Ray and all the footage is NOT FROM FILM, stay with 30 fps.

Shooting at 24 fps has a "look". Try shooting both frame rates and test which one you prefer, but 30 fps is more of a standard with digital.

1/30 vs 1/60 Shutter Speed (for 30 fps)
Again, this is another "what do YOU prefer" kind of thing. Shooting at 1/30 has a more fluid look on action. Increasing the shutter speed makes things look sharper and more frozen in time. If you go higher than 1/60, then you are actually going to increase the choppiness to the look of the scene, almost like a strobe effect. When you pan the camera, shooting at higher shutter speed makes the image more frozen in time, so it actually enhances the unwanted rolling shutter effect. So by shooting at a higher shutter speed, it can make the look for harsh, and less like film. But that also can be a look you want. "Saving Private Ryan" was shot at a very high shutter speed, like 1/90 sec on purpose, it made explosions and dirt seem to freeze in the air, almost like a slo-mo effect -- but you watch it in real-time. So the shutter speed changes the look - for sure. Which one is up to you...but the slower 1/30 has a more "film" look.

For low-light concert type stuff... I always shoot 1/30 sec. and start at ISO 1600. Then I play with the aperture and try to get the MOST amount of depth of field as possible on every scene -- because you tend to have more footage that will be in focus, especially if thy are moving around back and forth on stage. If a singer runs from the left to the right stage, you do not want to be trying to pull focus on that... you never get it perfect every time, so lean towards as much depth of field as the light on stage will give you. Last thing you want is a key part of the show be soft focus.

Shooting Outdoors in bright light... everything changes. Then you are down to ISO 100 for sure... and you might even need ND filters if it is too bright. You would be still at ISO 100 at 1/60 sec... and that might be well over f22 in bright sunny day... so you need a 2 or 3 stop ND. So you must plan your amount of light based on 1/30 or 1/60 shutter speed.