Unfair Airshow T&C's?

[whereswally?]

Hey Guys,

Over here in Perth we have a RAAF airshow this coming weekend (The last was back on 2005) and reading though the T&C's here (You may have to click Conditions of Entry) the following section stood out:

13. Exploitation of Film, Sound, Video, Recording, Software etc.

13.1 No person who enters or has entered the Event site or carparks shall without the prior written consent of the Organisers sell, license or otherwise exploit, or attempt to exploit, any material whether written or in the form of digital or photographic film, sound, video or other recording or computer software obtained or made at the Event site or carparks.

13.2 Without limiting the provisions of condition 13.1, it is a condition of entry to the Event and the carparks that:
(a) a person cannot make, create, record, transmit, reproduce or use any recording, data or image at the Event or in the carparks for any form of public advertisement, transmission, display, or for profit or commercial gain, or for any other purpose (except for the private enjoyment of the person making the recording, data or image) without the prior written consent of the Organisers; and
(b) if a person makes, creates, records, transmits, reproduces or uses any recording or image of, at or in relation to the Event or any part of it or in the carparks with or without the consent of the Organisers, that person shall, on request by the Organisers, assign in writing all copyright and all other intellectual property in any such image or recording to the Organisers or their assignees or nominees as directed by the Organisers.

13.3 All persons entering the Event site or carparks agree that the Organisers’ remedies for breach of this condition 13 shall not be limited to damages and may include all and any profits made as a result of such breach.

To me it reads that any images that you take and if you upload them online to share your effectively signing over the copyright to your images.

That doesn't seem like a reasonable clause, to me.

What are people's thought's on this? And are other airshows like this?

[Jensgt]

Sounds like the rules they have at zoos where you can't use the images in a commercial way...but I have never seen that at an air show.

[Joe Ravenstein]

The clause seems to be fair and not unreasonable, did you plan on selling images taken at the airshow? If you had no intention of selling the images you are good to go IMO If you were planning to make a profit they want their fair share. If you don't shoot with-in the airfields boundary I don't think they have any say but once again this is MY opinion.

[whereswally?]

Originally Posted by Jensgt

Sounds like the rules they have at zoos where you can't use the images in a commercial way...but I have never seen that at an air show.

I can understand about commercial purposes but 13.2b sort of sounds like even if you share them online like here for example you sign away your copyright to them.

Originally Posted by Joe Ravenstein

The clause seems to be fair and not unreasonable, did you plan on selling images taken at the airshow? If you had no intention of selling the images you are good to go IMO If you were planning to make a profit they want their fair share. If you don't shoot with-in the airfields boundary I don't think they have any say but once again this is MY opinion.

I had no plans on selling any images, but it sounds like I can't even "display" and share my images with people.

[PhotosGuy]

Originally Posted by whereswally?

I can understand about commercial purposes but 13.2b sort of sounds like even if you share them online like here for example you sign away your copyright to them.


I had no plans on selling any images, but it sounds like I can't even "display" and share my images with people.

(b) if a person makes, creates, records,...
Looks to me that all you have to do is take a shot. I don't know your laws, but I wish them a lot of luck enforcing that.

[Andrew Tingle]

It's funny this should pop up as I'm going both Sat and Sun with all my kit and I had read these T's & C's with some concern when booking the tickets. Clearly, this is not limited to those that go on to make money from any images, but is a "catch all" that snares any image taken that isn't just used for personal pleasure (so includes even showing any images that could appear on this very forum post the event).

I like to think that these T's & C's are just a bid to cover all eventualities, say, in instances where some guy jumps a fence at the end of the runway and starts firing off captures (which security could then relieve him of) etc.

I do understand that if someone makes money from images taken at the event the organisers would want their share of proceeds - I'm not intending to use any images commercially, incidentally - but to merely show one's photos on, say, a forum, resulting in possible loss of ownership of said images, I would be shocked if they enforce things to that degree should they happen on said images. Time will tell, of course, but, yeah, as said, I prefer to think that they just want to have themselves covered totally should they have issues later with image uses that they feel are, or could be, at their detriment. (if this makes sense).

Aside from this, very much looking forward to the show and, who know, we may happen upon each other (sending you a PM, btw).

[FlyingPhotog]

I'd pass on this show...

Merely showing up is by no means grounds for a work for hire arrangement.

If they gave an airshow and nobody came, would they notice?

[ChunkyDA]

Ha, post your pictures here and let's see what happens. They are treating the airshow like a Broadway performance.

[Andrew Tingle]

Originally Posted by FlyingPhotog

I'd pass on this show...
Merely showing up is by no means grounds for a work for hire arrangement.
If they gave an airshow and nobody came, would they notice?

lol, Jay, I think they just might. Fact is, I moved from the UK where I attended RIAT each year and in Western Aus airshows are pretty thin on the ground, so I cannot pass up the opportunity to get a good dose of jet noise and give my gear a much needed airshow workout.

Out of interest, I have seen terms like this at other venues here, at a speedway, for example, where the terms are just like this.

Originally Posted by ChunkyDA

Ha, post your pictures here and let's see what happens. They are treating the airshow like a Broadway performance.

This is entirely possible, Dave. I like to think I'll get a few worth looking at, lol.

[whereswally?]

Originally Posted by PhotosGuy

I wish them a lot of luck enforcing that.

Yeah trying to enforce that on 100,000's of images would be a little difficult.

Originally Posted by FlyingPhotog

I'd pass on this show...

Merely showing up is by no means grounds for a work for hire arrangement.

If they gave an airshow and nobody came, would they notice?

I don't think lack of attendance will be an issue, they are expecting over 40,000 spectators (Perth never gets anything cool, apart from the Red Bull Air Race)

[Andrew Tingle]

As a side note I notice that the military aircraft are set to start displaying from midday, at which point the sun starts slipping to back light the aircraft, which will thus fall into increasing shadow as they display. Hopefully I can dial in enough EC to combat this without impacting too much on the sky (it's set to be a sunny day, so light will be harsh).

Still very much looking forward to it, oc.

[PhotosGuy]

Originally Posted by Andrew Tingle

Hopefully I can dial in enough EC to combat this without impacting too much on the sky (it's set to be a sunny day, so light will be harsh).

"Enough" might be too much? I'd try about 1/2 as much to just retain shadow detail & not blow out the sky.

[ChunkyDA]

Over here, at least for the military birds, this would not be possible to enforce. We own the aircraft. So did you get any good shots?

[Andrew Tingle]

Originally Posted by PhotosGuy

"Enough" might be too much? I'd try about 1/2 as much to just retain shadow detail & not blow out the sky.

Thanks PhotosGuy - as the light was so differing depending on whether aircraft were passing either left to right or right to left (in major shadow or pointing at the sun, which rested pretty much in line yet back from the runway) I made the call to shoot M on the day as I found this easier to tweak as I went along.

I do also have a ticket for today, Sun, but have decided to not go (which is a shocker, for me, but I don't think I could work any better with the light than I have on Sat).

Originally Posted by ChunkyDA

Over here, at least for the military birds, this would not be possible to enforce. We own the aircraft. So did you get any good shots?

I did indeed and I will post up some samples hopefully today or tomorrow.