Canon Digital Photography Forums  

Go Back   Canon Digital Photography Forums > 'Sharing Knowhow' section > Talk About Photography > Weddings and Other Family Events Talk
Register Rules FAQ Members List Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read



Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 18th of June 2012 (Mon)   #1
mav496
Member
 
mav496's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: England
Posts: 190
Default Awkward predicament?

So, I helped my friend out at a wedding for him, doing 2nd shooter stuff as well as some group shots and romantics...

The bride and groom chose to have my friends package of edited photos on disc... (no worries so far...)

I told them as I was helping my friend out, would they mind me using MY shots on my website/FB page with my interpretation of their day..? (again, B&G say no worries)

This weekend my friend gives the B&G their photos on disc and they're chuffed to bits with them! He's then said I can go ahead and post my pics/edits on FB and my website now they have their disc (feel it was rude to post them on my site until the B&G get the "official" photos!)

Well my edited pics consisted of me doing a complete Black & White conversion on all the photos I took. IMO, they came out great and I really liked what I did to them....

This evening the Bride has contacted me saying she's seen my photos of the wedding, in B&W, and would like a disc of High Resolution photos to print at their expense!
Now i'm chuffed to bits she loves my conversions etc, but what sort of price do I charge for this? I don't want to be extortionate as I wasn't the Main shooter, but I also don't want to go too low.... I haven't told my friend yet as I think it could insult him.... ??

I edited 110 photos....

Hope you can help, and thanks for reading the essay!

Mav
__________________
My Gear... 5DMK2 Gripped, 400D Gripped, 24-105mmL, 10-20mm, 100-400mmL, 28-105USM, 50mm 1.8, 580EXII
Bowens Gemini 400 Studio Lights & Bowens umbrellas and Softboxes....
mav496 is offline   Reply With Quote
This ad block will go away when you log in as member
Old 18th of June 2012 (Mon)   #2
tnis0612
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Virginia, USA
Posts: 231
Default Re: Awkward predicament?

Someone else i'm sure will comment on legally what you can/should do..but in my opinion you need to tell your friend and work something out with him assuming you didnt have a contract with him for your 2nd shooting job. If your friend says it's fine to charge whatever you want then you can go from there, but I think your first step needs to be to discuss with your friend. You're right, it may insult him, but that's not really your problem. He will likely be more upset if you are selling photos behind his back of shots that he setup and a job that he was hired for.
__________________
5d Mark II, 7D
17-40L, 35L, 50L, 85 1.8, 70-200 2.8L IS II
tnis0612 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18th of June 2012 (Mon)   #3
nicksan
Man I Like to Fart
 
nicksan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: NYC
Posts: 24,466
Default Re: Awkward predicament?

I agree. I would discuss with your friend first.
nicksan is offline   Reply With Quote
This ad block will go away when you log in as member
Old 18th of June 2012 (Mon)   #4
bigarchi
Member
 
bigarchi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: upstate ny
Posts: 962
Default Re: Awkward predicament?

hands down, these guys are 100% right.
__________________
~Mitch

my gear and feedback
bigarchi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18th of June 2012 (Mon)   #5
scorpio_e
Cream of the Crop
 
scorpio_e's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Pa
Posts: 6,520
Default Re: Awkward predicament?

What was your contract with the main photographer? If you are not working with a contract, you should call him.
scorpio_e is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 18th of June 2012 (Mon)   #6
btmlinedan
Senior Member
 
btmlinedan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: ohio
Posts: 1,556
Default Re: Awkward predicament?

if it were me, and ok with the main shooter, i'd hand them a disc with a smile.

"if you ever need any other photographery work, please don't hesitate to ask us!"

boom.
btmlinedan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18th of June 2012 (Mon)   #7
nicksan
Man I Like to Fart
 
nicksan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: NYC
Posts: 24,466
Default Re: Awkward predicament?

Quote:
Originally Posted by btmlinedan View Post
if it were me, and ok with the main shooter, i'd hand them a disc with a smile.

"if you ever need any other photographery work, please don't hesitate to ask us!"

boom.
Yeah, but then aren't you stepping on your friend's turf?

I would definitely check with the friend to make sure it's OK to make money off of what was essentially his gig and his client.
nicksan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18th of June 2012 (Mon)   #8
Tony_Stark
Goldmember
 
Tony_Stark's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Toronto, Canada
Posts: 4,026
Default Re: Awkward predicament?

Quote:
Originally Posted by nicksan View Post
Yeah, but then aren't you stepping on your friend's turf?

I would definitely check with the friend to make sure it's OK to make money off of what was essentially his gig and his client.
Of course. IMO this whole situation can get out of hand real fast, especially in the whole paradigm of doing business with friends. Slippery slope here. For the next event you shoot, you have to clearly iron out who edits all the photos, and if another situation arises such as this again, what will be done about it. I know in some cases, second shooters gives all their shots to the main shooter, and he is then responsible for delivering them to client etc.

While you did help out and were second shooter, the client did specifically ask for your shots. I think if compensation is given that the main shooter should get some money as well.

Im just throwing out ideas, not 100% sure how to deal with a wedding, much less a situation like this.
__________________
Canon 6D | 17-40L | 50L
EOS M | 22 f/2 STM

Website | Flickr | Facebook | Automotive Portfolio | Instagram
Tony_Stark is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18th of June 2012 (Mon)   #9
LBaldwin
Goldmember
 
LBaldwin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: San Jose,CA
Posts: 4,490
Default Re: Awkward predicament?

As you say you were the second shooter, if that's true then the images belong to the primary photographer. Along with that thinking, you need to check with him first, to see if he wants to charge her for those images.

That would be the honorable thing to do, since you had no contract with her. In the future, make sure these things are ironed out prior to you starting to shoot weddings portraits etc.
__________________
Les Baldwin
http://www.fotosfx.com
LBaldwin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18th of June 2012 (Mon)   #10
mav496
Member
 
mav496's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: England
Posts: 190
Default Re: Awkward predicament?

Thanks all for the comments, I'll think i'll have chat with my friend and see what he says....

LBaldwin & Others....

Am I not right in saying then, that even though I was a second shooter, the copyright/images would belong to me as I was the one behind the camera shooting
__________________
My Gear... 5DMK2 Gripped, 400D Gripped, 24-105mmL, 10-20mm, 100-400mmL, 28-105USM, 50mm 1.8, 580EXII
Bowens Gemini 400 Studio Lights & Bowens umbrellas and Softboxes....
mav496 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18th of June 2012 (Mon)   #11
bnlearle
Senior Member
 
bnlearle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: San Diego
Posts: 1,897
Default Re: Awkward predicament?

There's some sort of unwritten codes in wedding photography. Probably at the very top of the list would be that you do not ever mess with your friends' clients when you're helping your friends. If I got an email asking for my photos, I would simply let them know that I was only helping the photographer and that they can get everything they need through the main photographer.
bnlearle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18th of June 2012 (Mon)   #12
tim
Light Bringer
 
tim's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Wellington, New Zealand
Posts: 49,437
Default Re: Awkward predicament?

You were working for your friend, and they already paid him. He should already have all the high resolution photos, and he should've supplied them to the couple already.

Apologise, cut off all contact, give the images to your friend no charge, and make sure you have written permission to use the images for your own marketing. Your real win was experience.
tim is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 18th of June 2012 (Mon)   #13
bnlearle
Senior Member
 
bnlearle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: San Diego
Posts: 1,897
Default Re: Awkward predicament?

Quote:
Originally Posted by tim View Post
Your real win was experience.
Bingo.
bnlearle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19th of June 2012 (Tue)   #14
awad
Senior Member
 
awad's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Philadelphia
Posts: 1,067
Default Re: Awkward predicament?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mav496 View Post
Thanks all for the comments, I'll think i'll have chat with my friend and see what he says....

LBaldwin & Others....

Am I not right in saying then, that even though I was a second shooter, the copyright/images would belong to me as I was the one behind the camera shooting
the images usually belong to the main photographer. you're working for them. You might able to use the images for your blog or portfolio, but usually those images belong to the main photographer.
awad is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19th of June 2012 (Tue)   #15
LBaldwin
Goldmember
 
LBaldwin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: San Jose,CA
Posts: 4,490
Default Re: Awkward predicament?

If you were ORIGINALLY there to assist your friend, not create images for your own income, then they belong to your friend. He should have rec'd them from you and included them into the first presentation to the couple.

You would not be at the wedding otherwise. Yes the copyright may belong to you, but morally they should go to him.
__________________
Les Baldwin
http://www.fotosfx.com
LBaldwin is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
engagement/wedding predicament jordyquint The Business of Photography 6 2nd of June 2012 (Sat) 09:39
Boom Arm Predicament Cuervo79 Small Flash and Studio Lighting 47 27th of May 2009 (Wed) 23:29
Peculiar predicament cynthia123 The Business of Photography 8 11th of February 2009 (Wed) 00:59
telephoto zoom for 5D predicament artyboy Canon EF and EF-S Lenses 30 23rd of June 2007 (Sat) 11:49


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 18:03.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.12
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
This forum is not affiliated with Canon in any way and is run as a free user helpsite by Pekka Saarinen, Helsinki Finland. You will need to register in order to be able to post messages. Cookies are required for registering and posting. HTML in messages is not allowed, plain website addresses are automatically made active by the board.