Assistance with Client Payment

[JacobPhoto]

FYI -

if you drop this without chasing payment at all, you may get the reputation as someone who doesn't actually need to be paid for outstanding invoices. At the very least, send a signed / dated letter via certified mail (which has delivery confirmation) requesting payment and threatening legal action for failure to pay. Then you will need to follow thru with that legal action.

On top of that, take this situation as an opportunity to learn and get your paperwork in order before accepting jobs like this in the future.

[pixel_junkie]

Without contract, it would be hard to get your money back if he doesn't want to pay you.

About what others said about not sending photos before you get payment - I always do but I also always make sure I have a signature on a very detailed contract before I do the job at all. And I would never give the client the RAW files, it is never part of the deal and I would never agree to it if they ask for it. I own them, I own the images and distribution rights, the clients gets usage rights only, nothing else.

[JBell91]

Originally Posted by JacobPhoto

FYI -

if you drop this without chasing payment at all, you may get the reputation as someone who doesn't actually need to be paid for outstanding invoices. At the very least, send a signed / dated letter via certified mail (which has delivery confirmation) requesting payment and threatening legal action for failure to pay. Then you will need to follow thru with that legal action.

On top of that, take this situation as an opportunity to learn and get your paperwork in order before accepting jobs like this in the future.

I have the invoice I created from PayPal sitting in my cabinet here at work, and a certified mail request letter I found online...just trying to decide if fronting the cost initially for the plane tix to Vegas and court fees will be worth it if he never pays me regardless if I win the case or not.

Would you guys still send the invoice to the client and the letter?

[JacobPhoto]

best case scenario - you send the letter and invoice, and the client pays.
most likely scenario - you send the letter and invoice, and the client doesn't pay.
worst case scenario - your letter comes back returned because he didn't accept it (which makes it harder to go to court).

In the above 3 scenarios, 1/3 of them end in payment. That's better than 0, which is the likely outcome if you DON'T send the letter.

An American Cop - "stop or I'll shoot"
An English Cop - "Stop or I'll.... shout stop again!"

don't be the English cop.

(that was a joke, btw)

[mikeinctown]

Originally Posted by JacobPhoto

best case scenario - you send the letter and invoice, and the client pays.
most likely scenario - you send the letter and invoice, and the client doesn't pay.
worst case scenario - your letter comes back returned because he didn't accept it (which makes it harder to go to court).

In the above 3 scenarios, 1/3 of them end in payment. That's better than 0, which is the likely outcome if you DON'T send the letter.

An American Cop - "stop or I'll shoot"
An English Cop - "Stop or I'll.... shout stop again!"

don't be the English cop.

(that was a joke, btw)

Trust me, refusing a certified letter doesn't make it any harder. if all it took to avoid court was refusing certified letter, no company or individual would ever accept one and lawsuits would be stopped in their tracks. What you need to do is show you attempted, and the certified does this, returned or not.

based on what I see though, he is continually calling this person even though he got notice that the funds were being transferred, which if you have a new account, can take several days. I would give it some time and not bug someone so much. Also, there are laws regarding what you can and cannot do regarding collecting money. Don't cross the line here. For me, I'd go to Vegas just because it's Vegas and if you collect that just makes it even better. Most likely you will get paid. After all, this guy needs to do business as well and others will not work with him if they think they will not get paid.

[Ray Marrero]

The way I do it:

1. Contract
2. Deposit
3. Client Does NOT SEE* any images until the balance is paid in full

When I finish a job I talk up how great the images came out. Makes them want to pay me faster to see the images. Of course this is all explained during the interview for the job. I am interviewing them to see IF I would work with them. I go with my gut. If I don't feel it, I refer them out.


*Within reason. Sometimes, I shoot tethered and they do see it at the studio. But If it's just me or an event, then they don't get to see.

[JBell91]

Originally Posted by mikeinctown

Trust me, refusing a certified letter doesn't make it any harder. if all it took to avoid court was refusing certified letter, no company or individual would ever accept one and lawsuits would be stopped in their tracks. What you need to do is show you attempted, and the certified does this, returned or not.

based on what I see though, he is continually calling this person even though he got notice that the funds were being transferred, which if you have a new account, can take several days. I would give it some time and not bug someone so much. Also, there are laws regarding what you can and cannot do regarding collecting money. Don't cross the line here. For me, I'd go to Vegas just because it's Vegas and if you collect that just makes it even better. Most likely you will get paid. After all, this guy needs to do business as well and others will not work with him if they think they will not get paid.

This is certainly not the case, I have patiently waited 4 days for him to transfer money from his account before I contacted him--AMONG the 2 months of hassle with him "sending my check" and "my assistant just gave me the check" BS cards.

Trust me I would love to go back to Vegas, however getting settled in at my new job and having to pay bills/rent...I'm slowly getting ahead after being unemployed for 6 months (with no unemployment), and the funds to go to vegas are simply not here.

Originally Posted by Ray Marrero

The way I do it:

1. Contract
2. Deposit
3. Client Does NOT SEE* any images until the balance is paid in full

When I finish a job I talk up how great the images came out. Makes them want to pay me faster to see the images. Of course this is all explained during the interview for the job. I am interviewing them to see IF I would work with them. I go with my gut. If I don't feel it, I refer them out.


*Within reason. Sometimes, I shoot tethered and they do see it at the studio. But If it's just me or an event, then they don't get to see.

Yea I walked into this a little more excited for the job and all logic went out the window. My mistake, and I am probably going to pay for it.

[AAphotog]

You say he's been sending you messages from his iPad. Make sure you save all of his messages stating that he woould pay you

[cdifoto]

Originally Posted by P51Mstg

The thing you need to understand here is HE APPARENTLY has permission to use the photo. The client just never paid for it. The permission still exists in the sales "contract" (unwritten and if you don't think there are 2 sides to a story you've never been to court).......

Copyright deals with using something without permission, here, we have permission, we just never got paid. So its a matter of enforcing the contract to get paid and collecting the money.

If you can get a court to say YOU BREACHED THE CONTRACT and NO LONGER CAN USE THE IMAGE and they still use the image, then you have a copyright case.

I never really did contract law, but I still remember a lot of it from law school 25+ years ago.

More questions, happy to chat about it.

Mark H

Client broke the verbal contract by not paying. Therefore other contract terms are null & void...terms like usage rights. You don't need a court to say the contract was breached before you slap him via his web host and such. Let him take YOU to court over that. It'd be on him to prove he has usage rights to the judge.

It's like taking out a loan for a car then not paying the loan. Guess what? You don't have the rights to that car anymore. It doesn't matter if you promised to pay...you didn't pay. Car gets repossessed. You can't actually take images back but you can revoke usage until payment is made.

[smacatl]

Originally Posted by JacobPhoto

best case scenario - you send the letter and invoice, and the client pays.
most likely scenario - you send the letter and invoice, and the client doesn't pay.
worst case scenario - your letter comes back returned because he didn't accept it (which makes it harder to go to court).

4th scenario - the house sells while you are deciding what to do and the cheapskate takes down the web ad as it's no longer needed.

Mail the letter TODAY!

[JBell91]

Originally Posted by smacatl

4th scenario - the house sells while you are deciding what to do and the cheapskate takes down the web ad as it's no longer needed.

Mail the letter TODAY!

And to add to that 5th scenario I am supposed to get a $5000 bonus if the house sells in 90 days with my images....

[smacatl]

Originally Posted by JBell91

And to add to that 5th scenario I am supposed to get a $5000 bonus if the house sells in 90 days with my images....

Dream on!!!!

[Dan Marchant]

Originally Posted by JBell91

And to add to that 5th scenario I am supposed to get a $5000 bonus if the house sells in 90 days with my images....

Are you serious and did you believe that?

[Fester]

This may be nasty, but it gets me paid all the time.
Not sure of the laws in your state but they cant be too different from Texas.
M&M leins. (mechanic's and materialman's lien) You can download the form online.

I'm a plumbing contractor, so here is what I do, Send a copy of the lien you are filing to the homeowner, even if you never dealt with the homeowner, tell him you have 5 days to make payment or the lien gets filed. A properly executed lien will prevent the property from being sold until the lien is released. But most importantly, the Homeowner will insist on this jerk paying you off immediately. Or maybe he'll just pay it and deal with the realtor at closing?

No one wants a lien on their property, especially one put on there because of a 3rd party business.

Trust me this is the easiest and fastest and cheapest way to get paid.

[Ray Marrero]

Originally Posted by Fester

This may be nasty, but it gets me paid all the time.
Not sure of the laws in your state but they cant be too different from Texas.
M&M leins. (mechanic's and materialman's lien) You can download the form online.

I'm a plumbing contractor, so here is what I do, Send a copy of the lien you are filing to the homeowner, even if you never dealt with the homeowner, tell him you have 5 days to make payment or the lien gets filed. A properly executed lien will prevent the property from being sold until the lien is released. But most importantly, the Homeowner will insist on this jerk paying you off immediately. Or maybe he'll just pay it and deal with the realtor at closing?

No one wants a lien on their property, especially one put on there because of a 3rd party business.

Trust me this is the easiest and fastest and cheapest way to get paid.

You're so nasty!