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My head says : Mark III but my heart wants D800

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Thread started 25 Jun 2012 (Monday) 10:31   
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jonneymendoza
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jdizzle wrote in post #14668241external link
Don't forget that I have a 1D X on order now. :)

are u a pro tog or a hobbiest?

Post #76, Jul 04, 2012 01:48:15


Canon 5dmkIII | Canon 85L 1.2 | Sigma 35mm ART 1.4|Canon 16-35mm L 2.8 |Canon 24-70mm L f2.8 | Canon 70-200mm F2.8L MK2 | Canon 430EX MK2 Flickrexternal link

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cputeq007
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MikeG50 wrote in post #14663216external link
From the Pop Photography tests:

The 5D3 received Very Low noise rating at ISO 800, the D800 a low.
The 5D3 received Very Low noise at ISO 1600, the D800 moderately low.
The 5D3 received Very Low noise at ISO 3200, the D800 received a moderate.
The 5D3 received a Low noise rating at ISO 6400, the same rating (1.6) as the D800 at ISO 800.
The 5D3 received a Low noise rating at ISO 12,800, the D800 an Unacceptable rating.
At ISO 25,600, the Canon received a moderate rating (2.4), slightly better than the Nikon at ISO 3200.
The first Unacceptable rating for Canon was at ISO 51,200, vs the Nikon's at 12,800.
The 5D3 smoked the D800 badly from my viewpoint.
Think of that, the Canon was as good at ISO6400 as the Nikon at ISO800!

I like reading Pop Photography, but not for the camera benchmarks. They're bogus.

Please read their methodology so that you don't start quoting them again :D

They test RAWs using manufacturer's supplied software at the software's default settings. It's an absolutely worthless test, instead of just using a freaking standard testbed like Adobe Lightroom. or other RAW converter.

I'm frankly amazed at how awesome their test bench setup is (they've described it twice, and it's A-1), only to ruin camera benchmarks with a craptastical methodology.

Post #77, Jul 04, 2012 02:06:05


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Neilyb
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Think of that, the Canon was as good at ISO6400 as the Nikon at ISO800!

I have seen files from both and that is BS, the Nikon's only weak point IQ wise is that the DR drops off pretty quickly from ISO200, and at ISO3200 the Canon is better. But still has more noise in the shadows compred to the Nikon.

Post #78, Jul 04, 2012 03:22:34


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jdizzle
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Charlie wrote in post #14668291external link
I don't understand why you would shoot both systems, unless you were getting a sponsorship to shoot a brand, or free gear. I can't understand it.

Because I can. ;)

David Arbogast wrote in post #14668309external link
Because nothing is perfect...those that can shoot both have an opportunity to exploit the best of each. :)

And the experience is wonderful. :)

jonneymendoza wrote in post #14668383external link
are u a pro tog or a hobbiest?

I just got out of the business this year. I now shoot for me. :)

Post #79, Jul 04, 2012 05:20:33


Phase One, Nikon, Sony, DJI Quadcopter, and Canon.

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jdizzle
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iLvision wrote in post #14668272external link
Not fair!!! Wanna donate that 1Ds3?

Hehe! I'm keeping it. :)

Post #80, Jul 04, 2012 05:22:45


Phase One, Nikon, Sony, DJI Quadcopter, and Canon.

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Glenn ­ NK
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kcbrown wrote in post #14667870external link
It just depends.


I have serious doubts that the D800 autofocus system is anywhere near as bad as the completely laughable 5D2 autofocus system (a system where only the center point is truly usable on a camera whose claim to fame is shallow depth of field and low light capability? Seriously?), but if you need the best thing going in autofocus today short of the 1DX, the 5D3 is it. However, if you need good but not exquisite autofocus, I'd wager the D800 is probably plenty good enough.

Remember, the D800's autofocus system is complicated, just like the one on the 7D. It may be more finicky than the one on the 5D3, but really good once you figure it out, or it may not be all that great even once you do have it figured out. Only someone who has had plenty of time to experiment with the D800's autofocus system to find its strengths and weaknesses will really be able to comment on it. There's also the inevitable quality control issue, something that has apparently plagued some 7D owners as well (quality issues are generally the luck of the draw, unless the quality control is so bad that problematic units are being released constantly -- something that is fortunately rare).

Or maybe not:
http://www.nikonians.o​rg ...d=7368&mesg_id=7368​&page=external link

One in three is approaching "poor luck of the draw" and not rare, but I may be not too good at stats. ;)

Post #81, Jul 04, 2012 10:18:36


When did voluptuous become voluminous?

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jwcdds
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Glenn NK wrote in post #14669506external link
Or maybe not:
http://www.nikonians.o​rg ...d=7368&mesg_id=7368​&page=external link

One in three is approaching "poor luck of the draw" and not rare, but I may be not too good at stats. ;)

But for $600 less, and 36mp, you can simply use center AF and "crop" your composition to make it look like you used the left AF points. :lol:

Wow. 1/3 of the users in that poll experiencing AF issue. Good thing landscape photographers don't use AF. ;)

Post #82, Jul 04, 2012 10:46:07


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dgrPhotos
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jwcdds wrote in post #14669616external link
But for $600 less, and 36mp, you can simply use center AF and "crop" your composition to make it look like you used the left AF points. :lol:

Wow. 1/3 of the users in that poll experiencing AF issue. Good thing landscape photographers don't use AF. ;)

I bet at least 80% of the 1/3 is end user error and the other 20% need a recall.

Post #83, Jul 04, 2012 11:07:55




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jdizzle
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jwcdds wrote in post #14669616external link
But for $600 less, and 36mp, you can simply use center AF and "crop" your composition to make it look like you used the left AF points. :lol:

Wow. 1/3 of the users in that poll experiencing AF issue. Good thing landscape photographers don't use AF. ;)

Nikonians is a poor source of noobs. :lol::lol:

Post #84, Jul 04, 2012 11:10:51


Phase One, Nikon, Sony, DJI Quadcopter, and Canon.

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jdizzle
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dgrPhotos wrote in post #14669706external link
I bet at least 80% of the 1/3 is end user error and the other 20% need a recall.

I joined that site a few months ago and just read through a lot BS. :rolleyes::lol:

Post #85, Jul 04, 2012 11:14:43


Phase One, Nikon, Sony, DJI Quadcopter, and Canon.

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jwcdds
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jdizzle wrote in post #14669727external link
I joined that site a few months ago and just read through a lot BS. :rolleyes::lol:

Probably a bunch of canon fanboys pretending to own D800 and sabotaging the poll, right?

Post #86, Jul 04, 2012 11:39:40


Julian
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jdizzle
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jwcdds wrote in post #14669808external link
Probably a bunch of canon fanboys pretending to own D800 and sabotaging the poll, right?

Ya never know but, that forum isn't anything like POTN. I'm a real user and there just might be some issues with certain bodies but, haven't run into any issues. I'll be posting photos once I get back from my trip. :)

Post #87, Jul 04, 2012 11:44:39


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jdizzle
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kcbrown wrote in post #14667870external link
It just depends.


I have serious doubts that the D800 autofocus system is anywhere near as bad as the completely laughable 5D2 autofocus system (a system where only the center point is truly usable on a camera whose claim to fame is shallow depth of field and low light capability? Seriously?), but if you need the best thing going in autofocus today short of the 1DX, the 5D3 is it. However, if you need good but not exquisite autofocus, I'd wager the D800 is probably plenty good enough.

Remember, the D800's autofocus system is complicated, just like the one on the 7D. It may be more finicky than the one on the 5D3, but really good once you figure it out, or it may not be all that great even once you do have it figured out. Only someone who has had plenty of time to experiment with the D800's autofocus system to find its strengths and weaknesses will really be able to comment on it. There's also the inevitable quality control issue, something that has apparently plagued some 7D owners as well (quality issues are generally the luck of the draw, unless the quality control is so bad that problematic units are being released constantly -- something that is fortunately rare).


The D800 has some serious advantages over the 5D3: noise control in the shadows, dynamic range, and resolution, to name the 3 most obvious ones. There are some applications for which there is no substitute for those things.


I expect that both the 5D3 and the D800 are so good as general purpose tools that the selection between the two should generally be driven by personal preference and one's existing lens collection. Since the deep-shadow banding issue apparently still exists even in the Canon 1DX, I have little faith Canon will be able to rectify that anytime soon, so it'll really come down to how much you need the resolution and the deep shadow capability of the D800. Most people hardly even know what dynamic range is, much less have any true interest in making use of it (as is evident by all the people who think that if you're pushing your shadows hard, you "didn't expose properly"), so they'll have no need at all for the D800's dynamic range. The same is true of resolution, really -- you have to print enormous images for the D800's extra resolution to truly matter. The 5D3 wins in burst rate and probably in autofocus as well, but many people don't use fast burst much and, similarly, don't have much use for a top-of-the-line autofocus system (witness the plethora of people who proclaimed that the 5D2 was "just fine" for them, and it is neither faster nor nearly as good in terms of autofocus as the D800). Hence, my contention that personal preference and existing lens collection should dominate the equation when deciding between the two, unless one knows he will need one of the distinguishing characteristics discussed above.

KC, you're correct about the D800 being finicky. Although, once set up to one's needs it friggin' rocks! :) It took me some time to dial it in for my usage and it's equally good to Canon's 1D series. :)

Post #88, Jul 04, 2012 12:01:13


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neilgcart
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kcbrown wrote in post #14667870external link
It just depends.


I have serious doubts that the D800 autofocus system is anywhere near as bad as the completely laughable 5D2 autofocus system (a system where only the center point is truly usable on a camera whose claim to fame is shallow depth of field and low light capability? Seriously?), but if you need the best thing going in autofocus today short of the 1DX, the 5D3 is it. However, if you need good but not exquisite autofocus, I'd wager the D800 is probably plenty good enough.

Remember, the D800's autofocus system is complicated, just like the one on the 7D. It may be more finicky than the one on the 5D3, but really good once you figure it out, or it may not be all that great even once you do have it figured out. Only someone who has had plenty of time to experiment with the D800's autofocus system to find its strengths and weaknesses will really be able to comment on it. There's also the inevitable quality control issue, something that has apparently plagued some 7D owners as well (quality issues are generally the luck of the draw, unless the quality control is so bad that problematic units are being released constantly -- something that is fortunately rare).


The D800 has some serious advantages over the 5D3: noise control in the shadows, dynamic range, and resolution, to name the 3 most obvious ones. There are some applications for which there is no substitute for those things.


I expect that both the 5D3 and the D800 are so good as general purpose tools that the selection between the two should generally be driven by personal preference and one's existing lens collection. Since the deep-shadow banding issue apparently still exists even in the Canon 1DX, I have little faith Canon will be able to rectify that anytime soon, so it'll really come down to how much you need the resolution and the deep shadow capability of the D800. Most people hardly even know what dynamic range is, much less have any true interest in making use of it (as is evident by all the people who think that if you're pushing your shadows hard, you "didn't expose properly"), so they'll have no need at all for the D800's dynamic range. The same is true of resolution, really -- you have to print enormous images for the D800's extra resolution to truly matter. The 5D3 wins in burst rate and probably in autofocus as well, but many people don't use fast burst much and, similarly, don't have much use for a top-of-the-line autofocus system (witness the plethora of people who proclaimed that the 5D2 was "just fine" for them, and it is neither faster nor nearly as good in terms of autofocus as the D800). Hence, my contention that personal preference and existing lens collection should dominate the equation when deciding between the two, unless one knows he will need one of the distinguishing characteristics discussed above.

Totally agree, I was going to buy Nikon a few years ago when changing systems, luckily I had a chance to play with a D300 and 5D at the time the handling of the Canon was so much better for me and I found the Nikon frustrating to use and tiring. I therefore became a Canon owner and have not regretted it. When the 5D MK III and D800 came out the decision was a simple one the 5D MK III. I shoot a lot of landscape and architecture but wanted an all round camera. I personally see no pratical advantage with the D800 in practice but I have never encountered dynamic range issues I could not resolve through carefull shooting and never print that large that the extra resolution will show so I would rather keep my canon lenses and will be safe in the knowledge that the 5D MKII will be comfortable to use which will allow me to take better pictures.

In practice both will do the job better than the majority of cameras on the market so the only way to decide is to try both and see which one feels the best.

Neil

Post #89, Jul 04, 2012 12:43:40




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Andrew_WOT
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jwcdds wrote in post #14669616external link
But for $600 less, and 36mp, you can simply use center AF and "crop" your composition to make it look like you used the left AF points. :lol:

Wow. 1/3 of the users in that poll experiencing AF issue. Good thing landscape photographers don't use AF. ;)

dgrPhotos wrote in post #14669706external link
I bet at least 80% of the 1/3 is end user error and the other 20% need a recall.

Could be, same was happening to 7D. But on the other hand seems like 5D3 users are universally happy with AF performance. There must be something in it.

Post #90, Jul 04, 2012 12:47:27




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