Q's for those that do focus stacking..

[CyberManiaK]

Hey I keep wondering what are your techniques/tips to shot handheld with focus stacking in mind with magnifications greater than 1:1 ? And I mean shooting on the field, not bringing the bugs to the "studio" and then doing the photoshoot....

have been watching a lot of pictures, focus stacked that for example says more than 20 pics.. Are those shots really possible by hand at the field ?

I have been experiencing that it's very hard to keep almost the same frame of the live bugs quite the same for more than 5 shots lol..

So any tips you want to share ??

Thanks.

[Martin G.]

I rarely go more than 6 or 7 shot for my stacks handheld in the field, that is still a good number of frames to allign, the reason I have quite a few is because I tend to shoot fairly wide.

But if you shoot between f9 - f11, sometimes 2 to 3 shots will be more than enough to have the important parts in focus.

If course, it will also vary depending of magnification.

I try to lean on something stable as much as possible, that helps having the frames allign better.

But in all honesty, as far as I am concerned, what is most important is to "master" the stacking software that you use and the PP part. My shots never allign perfectly, I always have to manually fix my stacks.

a few recent shots of mine.

this one is roughly 2.5:1, stack of 7 shots at f5.6



this one is 11 shots, close to 3:5 at f5.6 as well




this one 6 shots at 1:1, f5.6, a relatively flat subject and low mag



to give you an idea, I will restack them without touch up and will post them again.

Martin

[Martin G.]

ah, nevermind, those stacks actually allign almost perfectly now that I rerun them, let me look for others that did not go so well.

one thing I try to do, which I guess could be considered cheating is that I like to move the insect on the ground, so I can lay down, that gives me maximum stability.

Not sure if that helps

Martin

[CyberManiaK]

Thanks Martin this clear a lot my mind. But those examples are great !!! I do my "focus stacking" with photoshop the photomerge tool only.. So this could be the reason why I'm having more weird results.

edit: for example this shot are only 2 stacked on photoshop


This one worked better than I expect... but I have somes that photoshop makes some very strange aligns lol maybe I should learn another software to do the stacking. What do you think..

[Lester Wareham]

I use a technique I call stochastic stacking.

I have limited control over the exact focal plane in the field so I take a number of burst at slow (4 fps) and pick the best for stacking.

Note I stack manually using photoshop layers which gives me complete control over what parts of an image I use in the stack.

Number of frames used varies, 2-3 is common but can be 5-7, often less is more. I want it to look like a photo but just give the impression of more detail where it is important.

[Martin G.]

Carlos, Photoshop seems to be working very well for some. I use Zerene and I am more than happy with it, it is a matter of getting the final result you want. I tried photoshop and even though the output was more usable than Zerene, I was not able to edit the images as I wanted them to look like.

Like Lester, I think that you do not always need everything to be in focus. In my opinion, just the essentials. For insects, the head and eyes are the most important.

Your mantis looks quite nice, maybe one more shot for the outer eye and it would have done the trick.

I use a different technique than Lester, no bursts of shots. I strickly use liveview, magnify 5x or 10x and take the shot where I exactly want it to be and progress forward with the stack. It removes leaving it to chance to have the frames you need and I seldom have any "missed" shots. I always shoot with a shutter speed of 1/200 to freeze motion blur and adjust aperture according to what I want the picture to look like. I shoot higher iso (normally minimum 800) and open relatively wide, that means that I try to allow as much natural light in, even if I shoot with flash. This allows for much nicer blurry backgrounds, much smoother lighting and avoids black flash fall out backgrounds that I find unesthetic.

I start with the front of the eyes and take shots until I have reached the most distal parts of the eyes (always in live view). Than I come back to try to do the antennae, if I am lucky the insect will not have moved, but as you can see with my two examples above, I was not able to secure the shots. I always start with the eyes as they are essential to make the shots usable. If I would have started with the antennae in these shots, I would have not have anything to share as the fly would have moved before I finished the eyes.

Same if I do a side portrait.

At lower mags, 2 or 3 shots are enough.

Martin

[CyberManiaK]

Thank you very much !! Today I was practicing at mag 4:1 using live view@5x and damn everything everything shakes real hard and a little wind blowing take the subject out of frame very easy...

On a side question, maybe a dumb question hehe When you are aiming for focus stack and change the focus point. You change the focus point by moving forward the camera or rotating the barrel ?

I'm asking this because on my setup if a rotate the barrel I don't notice any focus change, only by moving the camera but that change result on a very different framing, more like if I'm zooming..

This could be due to my setup?? Manual extension tubes on M42 135/2.8 with a Raynox DCR-250

BTW: Any exercises you could suggest ? I was making some test with a small screw but get very mixed results lol...

[Martin G.]

Hello Carlos,

Sorry for the long delay, I am out of town on a conference.

I always move the camera back and forth, also, since I use the MPE the most, rotating the barrel changes magnification, so that would not work. But with a regular macro lens, I still go back and forth.

I think one thing that can be misleading, I know my friend that it was the case and when I explained he started to get it. When you handheld, at whatever mag, and on top of that do 5x or 10x on the liveview, the image is not stable, there is absolutely no way I can hold the camera still for more than a fraction of second. It is a matter of training your eye-camera shutter reflex that as soon as your eye sees where the shot should be, you press the shutter. The shutter speed of 1/200 will take care of freezing movement.

I hope that clarifies a little.

The only advice I can really say is practice-practice-practice, there is no way around. Start with narrower apertures to get a little more DOF and once you will regularly hit the shots exactly where you want them to be, you can start experimenting with other things.

All the best

Martin

[CyberManiaK]

Thank you Martin..

So the final answer I guess would be just practice lol...

Also I'm thinking on getting a monopod maybe could help a bit to make things stable enough, right now that is how I'm doing it, back-forth half pressed and once I pass the focus point click, And now my keeper rate has increased..

[Tom Camilleri]

Originally Posted by Lester Wareham

I use a technique I call stochastic stacking.

I have limited control over the exact focal plane in the field so I take a number of burst at slow (4 fps) and pick the best for stacking.

Note I stack manually using photoshop layers which gives me complete control over what parts of an image I use in the stack.

Number of frames used varies, 2-3 is common but can be 5-7, often less is more. I want it to look like a photo but just give the impression of more detail where it is important.

Lester, do you focus at several points, taking a burst for each, and then choose the best frame from each burst or might you use more than one frame from a given burst?

[Lester Wareham]

Originally Posted by Tom Camilleri

Lester, do you focus at several points, taking a burst for each, and then choose the best frame from each burst or might you use more than one frame from a given burst?

It depends, in a well controlled situation I can chose the focus point and fire almost single shots. In a very I uncontrolled situation I burst and chose a subset that give me the best focal plane distribution. There are variations inbetween.

The situation might be uncontrolled because it is a little bit breezy or because I can't hold the camera steady due to an awkward position in the field.

[Tom Camilleri]

Originally Posted by Lester Wareham

It depends, in a well controlled situation I can chose the focus point and fire almost single shots. In a very I uncontrolled situation I burst and chose a subset that give me the best focal plane distribution. There are variations inbetween.

The situation might be uncontrolled because it is a little bit breezy or because I can't hold the camera steady due to an awkward position in the field.

Thanks for reply. Are you changing the focus point each time you burst and taking the frame that best captures your intended focus plane for stacking with the best frames of the other bursts in your set? Or are you taking one burst and using the variations between the frames to make your entire stack? I have practically never used burst mode so it's a bit hard for me to visualize.

[Lester Wareham]

Originally Posted by Tom Camilleri

Thanks for reply. Are you changing the focus point each time you burst and taking the frame that best captures your intended focus plane for stacking with the best frames of the other bursts in your set? Or are you taking one burst and using the variations between the frames to make your entire stack? I have practically never used burst mode so it's a bit hard for me to visualize.

If it is a very low control situation there is enough random movement to get a different focal plane on each frame in a burst without doing much other than keeping still.

When there is more control I'll move the focal plane around during the burst.

You often can't easily use frames from different bursts as there will be small changes in perspective, although each situation is different.

I don't always burst, but I just leave the camera on 4fps, you can control the burst to single variation using the shutter button.

I find 8fps is too fast for stacking, I save that for fast moving small birds etc.

[Tom Camilleri]

Originally Posted by Lester Wareham

If it is a very low control situation there is enough random movement to get a different focal plane on each frame in a burst without doing much other than keeping still.

When there is more control I'll move the focal plane around during the burst.

You often can't easily use frames from different bursts as there will be small changes in perspective, although each situation is different.

I don't always burst, but I just leave the camera on 4fps, you can control the burst to single variation using the shutter button.

I find 8fps is too fast for stacking, I save that for fast moving small birds etc.

Thanks Lester, that "makes it real" for me. Clears things up greatly. I guess the camera motion becomes somewhat controlled after one gets the hang of it. After focusing I'd move the camera back as small a distance as I could and then forward in as continuous a motion as possible. Trying to hold the camera too steady would introduce a lot of shake. Moving smoothly within such tight bounds presents a learning curve, I'm sure .

[Lester Wareham]

Originally Posted by Tom Camilleri

Thanks Lester, that "makes it real" for me. Clears things up greatly. I guess the camera motion becomes somewhat controlled after one gets the hang of it. After focusing I'd move the camera back as small a distance as I could and then forward in as continuous a motion as possible. Trying to hold the camera too steady would introduce a lot of shake. Moving smoothly within such tight bounds presents a learning curve, I'm sure .

Yes I often do this, its the basic idea. But working in the real world you might not be able to keep things steady because either subject is moving or you are not well balanced, twisted upside down, hanging over an edge (don't want to sound too athletic here 'cos I am not).