too polite?

[recrisp]

Originally Posted by Ltdave

Actually though I DID NOT have to suck it up and move on. On the public street they have NO REASONABLE EXPECTATION of privacy... the same way it is LEGAL to shoot through an open (no blinds/drapes) into a building/house/bedroom provided no extra steps or effort ks taken to get said photograph ... you can't climb on anything or shoot with an extraordinarily long lens. If it is visible from street level it is legal and no photographer "has to suck it up and move on"....

AND for those joining late who haven't read all kt the posts, I DIDN'T take his picture .....

I think that why everyone here is 'seemingly' against what you feel is, the last part of your first post...
Everyone was on your side when you went up and asked 'politely', but it was when you stated that you had a "bad week" and felt as though you wanted to take the shot anyway, after he had already declined. That is when the tables turned, I feel, I may be wrong though.
I do have to say though, WE ALL feel as you did at some point, maybe not under the same circumstances, and really, I don't think that people are hating on you, it's just that you seemed really defensive about it all, a little too much. Had you said, "I really wanted to go ahead and take his shot anyway, but I knew that wasn't right", nobody would've posted anything from then on in a way that you deem negative. What you 'thought' is normal, the part about wanting to go ahead and shoot him, or tell him what you thought, ESPECIALLY after the week you have had, and the boss thing. I know exactly how you felt, I know I've been there, I've worked 12 hours for weeks before, and I sometimes wonder if I didn't win the lottery on sorry bosses, I had a few years of it, so I can definitely relate.
Where (I think) you may have gone wrong is when you crossed the line HERE, not what you felt at the time, maybe had you worded this slightly different this wouldn't be the way it's going now.

I promise, we're all human, and as humans we have done way worse things that what you 'felt' at that time and place, so you are not a jerk, or a monster, it was bad timing on a lot of things, that's all.
Imagine your week, then imagine that guy's week, y'all may have had a really similar time lately, he may have had just as bad of a week/month/life, as you had.

Anyway, looking at it from your point of view after reading what has been said to you, some people here could've worded their responses to you a LOT differently, I sometimes wonder why people feel as though they have to be so brutal. I am sure that didn't help your situation, especially when you came here amongst 'your peers', (or, so you thought) and just kind of vented, then you yourself feel attacked, that doesn't feel good, I'm sure. Just last week I asked for some 'help' on a certain subject, after a while, I started getting rude remarks, all I was wanting to do is get some help. So, no matter what the subject matter, there will be some that act the exact opposite of what you (or me) expect, and WE just have to expect that if we post in a public forum, we are ALL susceptible to that, no matter how popular we are, or think we are.

Anyway, long story short, I hope this goes away, but that you feel better about it all before it does. I may be WAY OFF on this, but if not, I hope that you see how it could be the same for any of us too.
To be honest, I am a pretty easy-going guy, I don't look for trouble... ever, but there is not a day that goes by that I don't want to bitch-slap some idiot, people are people, they can be really loving, or they can be the ones I want to slap. The real difference is, I don't say it publicly, and I sure don't follow through with my bitch-slapping fantasies...
(What I do is, if I feel at all stressed out over someone that has screwed me, or screwed with me, I write an e-mail, it may be way longer than this post, and I write it as polite and to the point as I can, but I don't leave any stone unturned. [Meaning I tell them exactly what I think of what they did to me in a manner that is civilized]I then let it sit in my OUTBOX overnight, and if I still feel the way I did when I wrote it, I send it... I have never, EVER sent one yet, in anger I might undo what has taken me a long time to do, so I have to think long and hard before I do what I feel is 'right' at the time)

I sincerely hope that people here stop the negatives on you and think about the stuff that we all might not agree with, but most people don't, I guess...

Randy

[cdiver2]

Originally Posted by Ltdave

well, i DIDNT take the guys picture...

but should we ask EVERYONE we come across for permission to take their photo? should PJs ask for permission to shoot news scenes that might not be flattering to the subject or might embarrass them or their families?

Well in my case YES. I worked a job that had my photograph become public it could have cost me my life, and you thought you had had a bad day. Kudos for asking but when he said no like a dick head or not move on, like others have said he may have a day a lot rougher than yours or like me a very good reason not to.
Personally I am against taking someones photograph without asking unless it is something newsworthy. I have only taken 2 photographs of strangers and I asked each time and was given a yes each time, if it had been no then move on it is no big deal not geting a photograph of someone I dont know and I can not do anything with it.

[Josh V]

Too many people these days with questionable motives hiding behind technicalities. So often do I hear people say "I wasn't being offensive, I was just stating facts." It usually seems to come from anger which of course is rejected by the person.

If you really do live by such a code where the only thing that matters to you are the facts and technicalities, then I could respect you for that, however if the man would have replied in a different way like maybe "You know I'm very flattered but I really would like it if you wouldn't take my photo, I'm going through a lot today and really wouldn't want to have this moment frozen in time as a reminder.I'm sure you understand but again thanks, I really do appreciate you for asking.", I have a feeling this thread wouldn't have even been created, thus proving my theory but I could be wrong.
Also of course thinking something and doing it are two different things so you get some credit for not following through and taking the mans photo anyway but I believe it's not just actions, we have to change the way we think and not let our anger get the best of us. I mean, you don't even know what that man could have been capable of potentially putting yourself in danger. I'd much rather risk my life when it comes to principles on so many other things that a snapshot.

[cdiver2]

Originally Posted by Josh V

Too many people these days with questionable motives hiding behind technicalities. So often do I hear people say "I wasn't being offensive, I was just stating facts." It usually seems to come from anger which of course is rejected by the person.

If you really do live by such a code where the only thing that matters to you are the facts and technicalities, then I could respect you for that, however if the man would have replied in a different way like maybe "You know I'm very flattered but I really would like it if you wouldn't take my photo, I'm going through a lot today and really wouldn't want to have this moment frozen in time as a reminder.I'm sure you understand but again thanks, I really do appreciate you for asking.", I have a feeling this thread wouldn't have even been created, thus proving my theory but I could be wrong.
Also of course thinking something and doing it are two different things so you get some credit for not following through and taking the mans photo anyway but I believe it's not just actions, we have to change the way we think and not let our anger get the best of us. I mean, you don't even know what that man could have been capable of potentially putting yourself in danger. I'd much rather risk my life when it comes to principles on so many other things that a snapshot.

Also of course thinking something and doing it are two different things so you get some credit for not following through and taking the mans photo anyway

But he said

i thought of shooting him from across the street as i wandered on but the lens was too short.

[Christopher Steven b]

I seriously don't understand this constant fallback to what is legal. Is what is legal really the highest bar we set for ourselves ? What about what is ethical ?

This man didn't want his photo taken--it was confirmed. It wasn't like in many situations out of which street candids emerge where it is ambiguous what the desire of the potential subject is. Here it was CLEAR. So if you know the guy doesn't want his photo taken, why would you take it anyway ? To me, taking the photo despite knowing the person doesn't want to be photographed is inconsiderate--it suggests a way of being that doesn't consider the perspective of the other person, who, e.g., might have had a really terrible day, or might be incredibly self-conscious. Who knows why.

[Stickman]

Originally Posted by Ltdave

i ALMOST told him that as long as he was outside the building, he was fair game and that i could photograph him with no repercussions

I feel no remorse for guys who push buttons and then get what they ask for.

As someone who has "Ltdave" as their user name, it makes me wonder what you are a Lt of.

[CanonXtiDude]

OP sounds like a total dick. Its legal to blow farts in your wifes general direction and waft the fumes up to her nose by waving my hands and fanning it towards her. Nothing illegal about it since its in a public place and thats just something people do naturally is fart. Next time I see your wife i'm almost gonna feel an urge to do that cause its legal and I can and get away with it. Check the laws. Nothing illegal about farting then waving the noxious toxic fumes right into her face. I almost feel like doing that now cause I farted and she didnt like my fart smell and I was having a bad day. Who does she think she is not to appreciate my farts when I get up all in her face with it. I politely asked her if she would smell my fart. I'll walk off then stand about 5 feet from her face the other way but fart towards her and wave my hands to waft the fart smell. Its not illegal man totally within my rights. Free country. AMERICA! F*K yeah!

Youre a total ass man. Like another person said on the first page youre lucky you didnt get your camera kicked in and your face smashed cause you really are a jerk.

[Christopher Steven b]

^ I think you would be being far far too polite if you held it in and if you didn't waft, to be honest.

[Christopher Steven b]

I have to say I'm incredibly surprised (proud ?) that amongst a bunch of photographers, a significant portion of us aren't simply worshipping the final image and disregarding everything else (you know, our impact on the world around us, other people).

[Indecent Exposure]

Originally Posted by Christopher Steven b

I have to say I'm incredibly surprised (proud ?) that amongst a bunch of photographers, a significant portion of us aren't simply worshipping the final image and disregarding everything else (you know, our impact on the world around us, other people).

There may be hope yet.

[Ltdave]

Originally Posted by CanonXtiDude

OP sounds like a total dick. ... Free country. AMERICA! F*K yeah!

Youre a total ass man. Like another person said on the first page youre lucky you didnt get your camera kicked in and your face smashed cause you really are a jerk.

Oh My God!!!!

you are SO VERY VERY RIGHT!

oh WOW, how could i EVER even begin to THANK YOU for your profound insight into life and photography!

please please tell me where i can come and bow down before your all magnanimous omnipotent being!!!!

how i SO WISH i could be so eloquent and lofty as you...

and youre right, i AM an Ass man. YOU sir are just an Ass...

[Deiseman]

If Zapruder had shot (no pun intended) his film of the J.F. Kennedy assassiation should that have been deleted? Mind you, it was quite a number of years before the U.S. government at the time deemed it fit for public release! Photography is a capture of a moment! It's not just about scenery, fauna & flora. It's about events, people & their lives however uninteresting it looks or appears. It's the shots that are in Life magazine. The gruesome shots from the great wars, the shots captured from WWII, the battle of the Pacific. The falling of the Berlin Wall. Photography is a history of humanity, it's greatest moments & it's greatest failings, however mundane it appears!

[Ephur]

Originally Posted by paintballkidz

some people just dont want to be photographed.. move on, that is all.
If I was being photographed with out my consent despite telling you to not photograph me you might be walking away with a broken camera or worst a jaw.

Right, because having your picture taken is grounds to assault someone else and vandalize their property. Your image is captured dozen of times a day by security cameras, traffic cameras, accidentally framed into view in others pictures or videos. I just clicked open this thread, but what a ridiculous thing to say.

Anyway, back to the OP:

I do agree with just move on, some people don't want you taking their picture, you asked, he said no, so what's the point of asking if the no isn't respected? If you're set to take the picture, just do it without asking.

[jonneymendoza]

Originally Posted by Ltdave

so i had the evening to myself while the family was out at some other family thing...

i went to dinner and then wandered around town. theres never much going on 'after hours' in my town but i looked at the architecture and did some window shopping...

walked by a guy who i think was probably a worker of some kind at a restaurant downtown, sitting on the window ledge getting ready to smoke...

i walked up to him and offered my card and asked if he minded if i shot a couple of pics of him. he kind of got all defensive as if he thought i was going to exploit the images for commercial gain but i was just looking to do some shooting...

he handed me back the card and said no thanks...

being perpetually tired (from 72 hour weeks) and fed up with an idiot boss, i ALMOST told him that as long as he was outside the building, he was fair game and that i could photograph him with no repercussions, until he reentered the building. i thought of shooting him from across the street as i wandered on but the lens was too short. i love the 70-200 f2.8 but DANG is it heavy for schlepping around!

as long as i was in the area i kept fighting the urge to go back over to him and start shooting just on general principles...

the lighting was getting pretty flat but i still think he would have been good material...

move on..

jeeze. learn how to respect peoples space.

Sorry for being harsh but its true. never force someone