Canon Digital Photography Forums  

Go Back   Canon Digital Photography Forums > 'Sharing Knowhow' section > Photography Industry News
Register Rules FAQ Members List Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read



Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 12th of August 2012 (Sun)   #31
jdizzle
Darth Noink
 
jdizzle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Harvesting Nano crystals
Posts: 69,309
Default Re: Nikon D800E v.s Hasselblad H4D40: the end of medium format superiority

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tareq View Post
Well, again of those pointless comparisons blogs, i just commented on Getdpi about that comparison thread, I had H3DII-39 and tested it against 1Ds MarkIII, i loved Hassy a lot over 35mm DSLr, then got H4D-60, i use Canon only for sports and few outdoor shots.
It's getting to the point where Digi MF is loosing it's niche. Why do you think Hassy dropped their prices?
__________________
Phase One, Nikon, Sony, DJI Quadcopter, and Canon.

"When your're blessed, the haters come out. When you wear God's blessings well, don't be surprised if it draws jealousy out on people."
jdizzle is offline   Reply With Quote
This ad block will go away when you log in as member
Old 13th of August 2012 (Mon)   #32
Tareq
"I am very lazy, a normal consumer"
 
Tareq's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Ajman - UAE
Posts: 16,544
Default Re: Nikon D800E v.s Hasselblad H4D40: the end of medium format superiority

Quote:
Originally Posted by jdizzle View Post
It's getting to the point where Digi MF is loosing it's niche. Why do you think Hassy dropped their prices?
Loosing its niche is a healthy thing, even it happens between Canon and Nikon and Sony and so on.

About Hassy dropping prices, well, i don't think it is only because of 35mm DSLR, but also Phase One and Leaf have their strong competition.
Tareq is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13th of August 2012 (Mon)   #33
David Arbogast
Goldmember
 
David Arbogast's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Lee's Summit, Missouri
Posts: 4,815
Default Re: Nikon D800E v.s Hasselblad H4D40: the end of medium format superiority

That other MF competition has been there for years right? Yet the price drop seemed to coincide with the release of the D800/E. I think that's why it's assumed that the D800/E helped trigger the price drop.

But, I guess the question is: has the D800/E started creating any sort of serious migration from MF?
__________________
David | Flickr
Camera: [ Canon 5D III ] [ Sony a7R ]
Lens: [ Canon TS-E 17mm, TS-E 24mm II, 70-200mm II ] [ Zeiss (ZE): Otus 55mm, Apo Sonnar 2/135]
David Arbogast is offline   Reply With Quote
This ad block will go away when you log in as member
Old 13th of August 2012 (Mon)   #34
bjyoder
Senior Member
 
bjyoder's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Central Ohio
Posts: 1,664
Default Re: Nikon D800E v.s Hasselblad H4D40: the end of medium format superiority

Quote:
Originally Posted by David Arbogast View Post
But, I guess the question is: has the D800/E started creating any sort of serious migration from MF?
I'd love to see stats on that, though I'm sure they'll be hard to come by.

My guess: Most of the guys using MF have the means to keep using MF, especially with some price drops. From what I've seen, the D800/E is still a step (more?) behind a good MF back. The people using MF are looking to eke out that last little bit of imaging quality. If they have the means to stay with MF, and MF gives better results, why would they choose something of lesser quality for their work? (Though, the D800/E could definitely be a decent backup/on-location camera for that crowd).
__________________
Ben
bjyoder is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13th of August 2012 (Mon)   #35
pyrojim
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: San Jose, CA
Posts: 1,859
Default Re: Nikon D800E v.s Hasselblad H4D40: the end of medium format superiority

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tareq View Post
Loosing its niche is a healthy thing, even it happens between Canon and Nikon and Sony and so on.

About Hassy dropping prices, well, i don't think it is only because of 35mm DSLR, but also Phase One and Leaf have their strong competition.


The entry leaf Aptus is $8000.... If you already have a body... It's really hard to compete against that.
__________________
PhaseOne H25
Camera agnostic
pyrojim is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13th of August 2012 (Mon)   #36
Shadowblade
Cream of the Crop
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Melbourne, Australia
Posts: 5,101
Default Re: Nikon D800E v.s Hasselblad H4D40: the end of medium format superiority

Don't forget, a lot of the technologies which have made the D800E competitive with some MF bodies would also benefit MF if they were transferred to MF digital backs. A full-frame 645 (56x42mm) CMOS sensor could very well have 15-16 stops of DR (using DXOMark's reference ranges), high ISO capability, 100-120MP and fully-functional live view. Same goes with a panoramic 24x72mm CMOS sensor.

But, with the D800E being the new benchmark, and future 35mm-format sensors improving on it, these benefits will likely only be relevant to 1% of photographers, and affordable to just 1% of these. MF manufacturers would do well to concentrate on the $10k-$15k end of the market, rather than $40k digital backs, and provide a greater variety of lenses, particularly at the wider end. After all, if Hartblei can stick a Canon TS-E 17L onto a MF digital back, while still retaining tilt/shift capabilities, then so can Zeiss, Schneider or Rodenstock. At the moment, you can shoot wider on a single 35mm frame than on a single MF frame, which is a big disincentive to go MF. But, with a proliferation of $10-$15k CMOS bodies and better UWA capability, a lot of people who would otherwise have bought a 35mm system would be tempted to go for MF instead. These are people who shoot primarily at the UWA-to-medium-telephoto range, who don't shoot action and need the flexibility of camera and lens movements - something that MF does much better than 35mm formats.
Shadowblade is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13th of August 2012 (Mon)   #37
jdizzle
Darth Noink
 
jdizzle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Harvesting Nano crystals
Posts: 69,309
Default Re: Nikon D800E v.s Hasselblad H4D40: the end of medium format superiority

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shadowblade View Post
Don't forget, a lot of the technologies which have made the D800E competitive with some MF bodies would also benefit MF if they were transferred to MF digital backs. A full-frame 645 (56x42mm) CMOS sensor could very well have 15-16 stops of DR (using DXOMark's reference ranges), high ISO capability, 100-120MP and fully-functional live view. Same goes with a panoramic 24x72mm CMOS sensor.

But, with the D800E being the new benchmark, and future 35mm-format sensors improving on it, these benefits will likely only be relevant to 1% of photographers, and affordable to just 1% of these. MF manufacturers would do well to concentrate on the $10k-$15k end of the market, rather than $40k digital backs, and provide a greater variety of lenses, particularly at the wider end. After all, if Hartblei can stick a Canon TS-E 17L onto a MF digital back, while still retaining tilt/shift capabilities, then so can Zeiss, Schneider or Rodenstock. At the moment, you can shoot wider on a single 35mm frame than on a single MF frame, which is a big disincentive to go MF. But, with a proliferation of $10-$15k CMOS bodies and better UWA capability, a lot of people who would otherwise have bought a 35mm system would be tempted to go for MF instead. These are people who shoot primarily at the UWA-to-medium-telephoto range, who don't shoot action and need the flexibility of camera and lens movements - something that MF does much better than 35mm formats.
Until that day comes where I can have at least 40 MP at a reasonable price( not including Pentax's 645D), I'll stick to 35mm for now.
__________________
Phase One, Nikon, Sony, DJI Quadcopter, and Canon.

"When your're blessed, the haters come out. When you wear God's blessings well, don't be surprised if it draws jealousy out on people."
jdizzle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13th of August 2012 (Mon)   #38
jdizzle
Darth Noink
 
jdizzle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Harvesting Nano crystals
Posts: 69,309
Default Re: Nikon D800E v.s Hasselblad H4D40: the end of medium format superiority

Quote:
Originally Posted by pyrojim View Post
The entry leaf Aptus is $8000.... If you already have a body... It's really hard to compete against that.
How many MPs is the $8k back?
__________________
Phase One, Nikon, Sony, DJI Quadcopter, and Canon.

"When your're blessed, the haters come out. When you wear God's blessings well, don't be surprised if it draws jealousy out on people."
jdizzle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13th of August 2012 (Mon)   #39
jetcode
Cream of the Crop
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: West Marin
Posts: 6,194
Default Re: Nikon D800E v.s Hasselblad H4D40: the end of medium format superiority

Quote:
Originally Posted by danpass View Post
I only read the first part but here is an off-the-cuff MF shot, simple auto tune in LR, full shot then 100% light eye, then 100% dark eye to show shadows and this was just a Phase One P45 (which I believe are CCD sensors):

I had a Hassy V 120 macro mounted on a d800e and tried to get a shot of the owner but the light was really hot (outdoor high noon) and I couldn't get the right shutter speed at f/11 hand held. I need to setup a session with flash and a similar face in order to produce a reasonable comparison. I also shot too close. Magnification matters as well. I was between 1:2 and 1:3. When I get the opportunity I will post the results.

Last edited by jetcode : 13th of August 2012 (Mon) at 21:34.
jetcode is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13th of August 2012 (Mon)   #40
pyrojim
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: San Jose, CA
Posts: 1,859
Default Re: Nikon D800E v.s Hasselblad H4D40: the end of medium format superiority

Quote:
Originally Posted by jdizzle View Post
How many MPs is the $8k back?
22 megapixels on a 36x48mm chip.

Remember megapixel count is only a small part of the story
__________________
PhaseOne H25
Camera agnostic
pyrojim is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14th of August 2012 (Tue)   #41
Tareq
"I am very lazy, a normal consumer"
 
Tareq's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Ajman - UAE
Posts: 16,544
Default Re: Nikon D800E v.s Hasselblad H4D40: the end of medium format superiority

Funny that Leaf has also that back of 33mp [Aptus II 33] and 40mp [Aptus II 40] under same price = $14,990, and Leaf Credo 40mp = $19,495
Hasselblad H4D-31 = $11,995

Last edited by Tareq : 14th of August 2012 (Tue) at 06:14.
Tareq is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14th of August 2012 (Tue)   #42
andrikos
Senior Member
 
andrikos's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Stuttgart, Germany
Posts: 1,778
Default Re: Nikon D800E v.s Hasselblad H4D40: the end of medium format superiority

Either way you slice it, it's quite obvious that the MF "slice of the pie" will be getting smaller and smaller...
It's already a niche among niches, expect it to become even more "nichy"
__________________
7D, 400D, EOS-M, EF-S 10-22mm, EF-M 18-55, Sigma 30mm f/1.4 EX DC, 40mm pancake you'd be crazy not to own one, EF 50mm f/1.4, EF 100mm f/2.8 macro, Sigma 50-500, EF-S 18-135 IS, 430 EX II, 90EX, 055XB, 680B, 488RC2
Think new Canon lenses are overpriced? Lots (and lots) of data will set you free!
Photography is not what the naked eye sees, but the mind's eye instead...
andrikos is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14th of August 2012 (Tue)   #43
Maverique
Member
 
Maverique's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Portugal
Posts: 833
Default Re: Nikon D800E v.s Hasselblad H4D40: the end of medium format superiority

News just in: medium format still kicks small format's ass, no matter if it's Nikon, Canon, Canikon...
__________________
My website | My flickr
Maverique is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14th of August 2012 (Tue)   #44
jdizzle
Darth Noink
 
jdizzle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Harvesting Nano crystals
Posts: 69,309
Default Re: Nikon D800E v.s Hasselblad H4D40: the end of medium format superiority

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maverique View Post
News just in: medium format still kicks small format's ass, no matter if it's Nikon, Canon, Canikon...
We all know that. Unless we're printing large billboards, it's impractical to most.
__________________
Phase One, Nikon, Sony, DJI Quadcopter, and Canon.

"When your're blessed, the haters come out. When you wear God's blessings well, don't be surprised if it draws jealousy out on people."
jdizzle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14th of August 2012 (Tue)   #45
pyrojim
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: San Jose, CA
Posts: 1,859
Default Re: Nikon D800E v.s Hasselblad H4D40: the end of medium format superiority

Quote:
Originally Posted by jdizzle View Post
We all know that. Unless we're printing large billboards, it's impractical to most.
medium format DIGITAL is impractical for most(thread context)




Film on the other hand....is wicked fun! 6x7 negatives are just plain sexy! (out of thread context)

The look and feel of 6x7 negatives is pretty special. Im really glad I picked up a medium format camera... also makes my 1Ds feel light
__________________
PhaseOne H25
Camera agnostic
pyrojim is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
WTB: Medium Format System (Mamiya/Hasselblad) MichaelAlan_Photo Classifieds: Buy 3 5th of November 2008 (Wed) 22:20


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:53.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.12
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
This forum is not affiliated with Canon in any way and is run as a free user helpsite by Pekka Saarinen, Helsinki Finland. You will need to register in order to be able to post messages. Cookies are required for registering and posting. HTML in messages is not allowed, plain website addresses are automatically made active by the board.