Can we play nice?

[Ursie]

This gets more and more interesting to read. It is ironic that there is bickering even here.

While I don't need to have my hand held, the lack of face to face conversation means we lack the means to read one another's body language, tone of voice and other cues you'd get IRL. That is what causes internet etiquette to require more care, IMO.

Yes, I appreciate a good critique, when it's given in the spirit of 'a personal opinion' rather than the only reasonable truth. That is where I see the biggest problems in terms of critique.

When it degenerates to personal insults insinuating or directly stating the 'you moron' approach, I admit, I have a problem with it and wonder why manners had to go out the window.

I'm curious, (really, please do not misinterpret, this is true curiosity. I really do want to understand your point of view as it baffles my mind) Does it really not bother some of you when it reaches these levels? Do you enjoy (or just brush it off easily as nothing) having opinions shoved down your throats as facts? Do you enjoy being belittled?

[RTPVid]

Don't particularly enjoy being belittled, but I have no problem with a vigorous, lively, even heated, debate over issues I am passionate about. Some people are so easily insulted, I can't state views with any passion while worrying about them.

I have no problem with people not putting "IMO" after everything, and, in fact, become annoyed when others demand that I do. Some things are just obviously opinions.

An enthusiast discussion will always have passionate stating of opinions, view, criticisms, etc., about everything from equipment to technique to technology to results. I guess if a person is not up to that, maybe that person should just pass by certain threads.

[hollis_f]

Originally Posted by RTPVid

No, you don't.

Yes, you do!


Sorry, is this the 5 minute argument or the full half hour?

[RTPVid]

Originally Posted by hollis_f

Yes, you do!


Sorry, is this the 5 minute argument or the full half hour?

This isn't an argument! It's just contradiction!

[Channel One]

Originally Posted by RTPVid

Some people are so easily insulted, I can't state views with any passion while worrying about them.

Or maybe if they are that sensitive they shouldn't have tossed out what was being replied about to begin with.

I saw a wonderful example of this in action yesterday, here in the U.S. we have two major conventions coming up the RNC and the DNC and in preparation for those two conventions I and numerous others are taping and building politically related packages to be wrapped around the convention coverage.

One of the events we covered yesterday was a political rally and while we where there a crew from Al Jazeera showed up to cover the rally as well.

After collecting some b-roll, the reporter for Al Jazeera, an affable British chap working with a Canadian cameraman began doing one-on-one standup interviews and all was going well until they interviewed a woman by the name of Victoria Jackson who is an ex-standup comedian from the program Saturday Night Live and about fifteen seconds into that roll Jackson accused the Al Jazeera reporter and his station of being a few rather nasty things.

The interview was cut short, but I had a feeling their camera was still on record and the microphone the reporter was holding was still hot (been there and done that), so I walked over to this woman and with my camera tilted to clear the viewfinder from my face with the lens not aimed at her but still rolling I asked her why did she just hurl those accusations at the reporter and asked if she has ever watched Al Jazeera.

Her answer “because you are all the same and no I have never watched Al Jazeera I don’t know who they are.”

Now I have done hundreds and hundreds of interviews and have never done what I did next, but she deserved it, I got intimately close to her face and stated “you know what honey you’re right we are all the same, but you are a %^^ ## fool and that is how you are going to be portrayed on-the-air,” at which point I could see she was tearing up and getting ready to really lose it so I stepped back.

A couple of members of her group noticing what happened walked over and began to con-sole her after which I was told to leave the area…

Should I have more sensitive to her feelings and baseless accusations? While others might I don’t think so, as to do such limits my freedom of speech.


Wayne

[Wilt]

Originally Posted by echo

Thanks Wilt! My tea is now splattered all over my computer display

Now you that your monitor is clean, I'll accept your thanks for the service!

[Channel One]

Originally Posted by Ursie

When it degenerates to personal insults insinuating or directly stating the 'you moron' approach, I admit, I have a problem with it and wonder why manners had to go out the window.

In my opinion (yea I said it alright J) when you see the personal insults coming out don’t have a problem with it, just understand the person hurling the insults has run out of anything intellectual to say and with their back against the wall and unwilling to admit they where incorrect and with nothing left in their quiver they launch the personal insults.

Does it really not bother some of you when it reaches these levels?

It does not bother me because unless someone knows me personally I do not take their opinions personally.

Now that does not mean I do not consider the insults sent my way if they are not too ridiculous but most of the insults I have received on the Net are so off the wall they make the insulter not the insultee look bad.

Now if it degrades to threats of violence or death, those I take seriously and the few times I have received such they have been reported to the local constabulary

Do you enjoy (or just brush it off easily as nothing) having opinions shoved down your throats as facts? Do you enjoy being belittled?

Again that can only happen if you allow it and if you don’t allow it you are not going to be eating their can of worms no matter how hard they try to push to your side of the plate.

Wayne

[pwm2]

Originally Posted by Channel One

In my opinion (yea I said it alright J) when you see the personal insults coming out don’t have a problem with it, just understand the person hurling the insults has run out of anything intellectual to say and with their back against the wall and unwilling to admit they where incorrect and with nothing left in their quiver they launch the personal insults.

Lots of people don't need any back against the wall. They can start a debate by being very rude in their first post. That would obviously mean that they are either trolls or just very unsharp tools...

[Channel One]

Originally Posted by pwm2

Lots of people don't need any back against the wall. They can start a debate by being very rude in their first post. That would obviously mean that they are either trolls or just very unsharp tools...

For them I read once then ignore.

Wayne

[Thorrulz]

Originally Posted by Ursie

I have been coming here off and on for several years. There are a ton of super helpful, super knowledgeable people on this board that are a wonderful draw.

However, there are also a lot of people with some kind of ax to grind who seem to be intent on belittling anyone with a different POV from themselves. Or for that matter, the same POV with a different way of expressing it.

For those that like to tell people that their work is crap or that their question is stupid, do you read what you post?

I am wondering why you can't just leave well enough alone.

All of that said, does anyone know of a good photography forum where general manners are observed? I find the arrogance difficult to muddle through. I realize that not everyone is this way, but the attitudes are pervasive enough that it makes me not want to come back.

I am so thankful for the Wilt's and the Skip's on this board, but I sure could do without the angry, insulting characters.

Why on earth would you start a discussion about such a topic when it is for the most part already controlled quite well by the moderators on here? Sure there are often times where someones reply posting could be misconstrued and could ruffle another forum members duck feathers, but on a forum this size and with a group as diverse as this, misunderstandings will take place from time to time.

Originally Posted by Ursie

This gets more and more interesting to read. It is ironic that there is bickering even here.

While I don't need to have my hand held, the lack of face to face conversation means we lack the means to read one another's body language, tone of voice and other cues you'd get IRL. That is what causes internet etiquette to require more care, IMO.

Yes, I appreciate a good critique, when it's given in the spirit of 'a personal opinion' rather than the only reasonable truth. That is where I see the biggest problems in terms of critique.

When it degenerates to personal insults insinuating or directly stating the 'you moron' approach, I admit, I have a problem with it and wonder why manners had to go out the window.

I'm curious, (really, please do not misinterpret, this is true curiosity. I really do want to understand your point of view as it baffles my mind) Does it really not bother some of you when it reaches these levels? Do you enjoy (or just brush it off easily as nothing) having opinions shoved down your throats as facts? Do you enjoy being belittled?

You would really benefit more by posting and interacting on a regular basis, rather than by observing for the most part. If I saw what I thought was an inappropriate comment by another member I may ask what was the cause for such a short direct remark? Then that individual has a chance to go into a more indepth explanation if they choose to do so. More often that not they comply and you will see that they really meant no harm or ill will towards the OP. But you don't always know what's happening on the other side of the keyboard so you shouldn't make rash assumptions about any particular posting.

And sometimes people are just having a bad day, so give them a little space and they usually come out of it on their own. If not, that's why there are Moderators on here.

[centrarchidae]

Most of the problem, explained.

POTN is a lot better than the average. Certain better than most gun boards.

[SOK]

It's all about perspective.

POTN restores my faith in humanity after reading a few comment threads on You Tube!

[Lowner]

Originally Posted by centrarchidae

Most of the problem, explained.

POTN is a lot better than the average. Certain better than most gun boards.

I would never dream of going to such a forum. I can well imagine the macho attitudes you get in such places.

[stsva]

Originally Posted by Nature Nut

The irony how we argue on a thread about getting along....Time to inject some kindness



And this is for YOU...yes YOU...YOU know who I'm talking about

You definitely get the "niceness" prize!

[Ballen Photo]

Originally Posted by Lowner

I would never dream of going to such a forum. I can well imagine the macho attitudes you get in such places.

You might be surprised, "MOST" of those guys n gals are pretty nice.
-Bruce