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Old 31st of August 2012 (Fri)   #1
dennisoralls
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Default HS Football under the lights - SS debate please?

I've finally got decent enough equipment to maybe luck into a few good shots. Would some of you guys with experience share your opinions on the min ss you've found useful. I'll be shooting in av mode adjusting iso to get the ss I need.

While you're at it, any thoughts on exposure compensation?

Thanks in advance for sharing!
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Old 31st of August 2012 (Fri)   #2
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Default Re: HS Football under the lights - SS debate please?

If you are shooting under the lights, might as well shoot manual. Too many variables can effect your exposure using AV.
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Old 31st of August 2012 (Fri)   #3
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Default Re: HS Football under the lights - SS debate please?

That works in early evening when the light conditions start bright but are changing rapidly, but manual is my preference when the light conditions aren't changing drastically. My minimum shutter speed in ambient light is 640 to stop the action, & I prefer 800-1000, but when shooting at night I shoot flash.
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Old 31st of August 2012 (Fri)   #4
snyderman
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Default Re: HS Football under the lights - SS debate please?

Early season football is tough because the games usually start with pretty good light. By 2nd half, it's usually dark and under full stadium lighting.

As others mentioned, it's best to use full Manual mode to have best control over what is happening between daylight and full darkness. I guess AV could be used during the daylight part of the game. I used this shooting JV games on Saturdays at 10am start times. Worked fine keeping the AV at f/4 and seeing really high shutter speeds most of the time.

At night, the recipe for shooting ambient is 1/640 on the shutter, f/2.8 (if you have it) and continue to raise ISO setting to achieve proper exposure.

About EC, (exp comp); the camera has to get the extra exposure from somewhere. To the best of my knowledge, the camera's first choice is to slow shutter speed. Set the camera to proper exposure in full Manual mode and stick to the areas of the field that are well lit. This is usually between the 20 yard lines. Inside the 20s are usually pretty dark unless you're talking div 1 college or NFL stadiums. HS venues are notoriously UNDERlit.

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Old 31st of August 2012 (Fri)   #5
dennisoralls
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Default Re: HS Football under the lights - SS debate please?

Thanks to all the replies, this is extremely helpful.

I'm very inexperienced and have had basically horrible luck with full manual. It seems like every time I've used it, 1 setting is far enough off to ruin the photos. I will experiment this week though, full manual is my eventual goal.
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Old 31st of August 2012 (Fri)   #6
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Default Re: HS Football under the lights - SS debate please?

Quote:
Originally Posted by dennisoralls View Post
I've finally got decent enough equipment to maybe luck into a few good shots. Would some of you guys with experience share your opinions on the min ss you've found useful. I'll be shooting in av mode adjusting iso to get the ss I need.

While you're at it, any thoughts on exposure compensation?

Thanks in advance for sharing!
Sometimes you don't have much of a choice, because you're at the mercy of the light.

If you're lucky, you can get a useful action-stopping shutter speed, which will require a high ISO.



Focal Length: 200.0mm
Aperture: f/2.8
Exposure Time: 0.0025 s (1/400)
ISO equiv: 5000
Exposure Bias: none
Metering Mode: Matrix
Exposure: shutter priority (semi-auto)
White Balance: Auto
Flash Fired: No (enforced)
Orientation: Normal



Exposure Time: 0.0031 s (1/320)
ISO equiv: 2500
Exposure Bias: none
Metering Mode: Matrix
Exposure: shutter priority (semi-auto)
White Balance: Auto
Flash Fired: No (enforced)
Orientation: Normal
Color Space: sRGB



Focal Length: 104.0mm
Aperture: f/2.8
Exposure Time: 0.0020 s (1/500)
ISO equiv: 3200
Exposure Bias: +0.33 EV
Metering Mode: Matrix
Exposure: shutter priority (semi-auto)
White Balance: Auto
Flash Fired: No (enforced)
Orientation: Normal
Color Space: sRGB

Three fields, three different levels of illumination and three sets of exposure settings. All taken from a light meter and adjusted for taste. Of course, in general, the faster the shutter speed, the higher the ISO.
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Old 31st of August 2012 (Fri)   #7
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Default Re: HS Football under the lights - SS debate please?

Quote:
Originally Posted by dennisoralls View Post
Thanks to all the replies, this is extremely helpful.

I'm very inexperienced and have had basically horrible luck with full manual. It seems like every time I've used it, 1 setting is far enough off to ruin the photos. I will experiment this week though, full manual is my eventual goal.
You'll get that in AV mode as well, as the camera will at times meeter off of a different light source.

As to your question, acceptable SS. I'll not shoot with less then 1/800. 1/640 can work but you'll have some motion blur in the hands, ball and feet.

As far as exposure compensation, yes use it. You'll be shooting with a high ISO and you'll want to shoot to the right so the images clean up better.

Last point, all out door stadiums will have darker ends (say 10 yards from the end zone to the back of the end zone), doesn't really seem to matter if they have four stacks of lights or six. At my fields that measures out to be about a 1/3rd or half of a stop difference. So I'll set my body to over expose around a 1/2 at mid field, knowing I'll need another half stop at least near the end zone. As they work the ball towards the end I know I need to up the exposure. Worse case (as in I don't adjust when they near the end zone) it only means I'll have a little more grain in the image...but with two clicks of the wheel I'm where I need to be. You just need to pay attention to your cameras light meeter. The sooner you get in that habit, the sooner you'll have more keepers. So between play's don't just sit there, meeter when they're in the huddle and make sure you're where you need to be.

AV is easier...but before you know it you'll have underexposed images just due to the fact you're not keeping an on the ambient light. So even in AV you'll need to constantly be checking your ISO for proper exposure. Instead learn to do it the right way, and you'll be good to go in the future.

Good luck, and don't forget to post your images.
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Last edited by dwarrenr : 31st of August 2012 (Fri) at 11:39.
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Old 7th of September 2012 (Fri)   #8
dennisoralls
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Default Re: HS Football under the lights - SS debate please?

OK, here are a couple. There was still a lot of light at the beginning of the game. Feel free to be as brutal as is appropriate.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg _MG_9196 R.jpg (128.5 KB, 199 views)
File Type: jpg _MG_9239 R.jpg (144.7 KB, 199 views)
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Old 7th of September 2012 (Fri)   #9
dennisoralls
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Default Re: HS Football under the lights - SS debate please?

Two more
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File Type: jpg _MG_9321 R.jpg (141.0 KB, 199 views)
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Old 7th of September 2012 (Fri)   #10
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Default Re: HS Football under the lights - SS debate please?

Only keeper is #1...but it still appears a little soft. All others it seems you've missed focused. #3 appears to be back focused and #4 appears to be front focused.

What focus point(s) are you using?
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Old 7th of September 2012 (Fri)   #11
dennisoralls
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Default Re: HS Football under the lights - SS debate please?

Quote:
Originally Posted by dwarrenr View Post
Only keeper is #1...but it still appears a little soft. All others it seems you've missed focused. #3 appears to be back focused and #4 appears to be front focused.

What focus point(s) are you using?
Wow you're tough!!

I see what you're talking about. I was using single point, I think it's just a matter of I was thinking about so many things that I got sloppy on focus.
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Old 7th of September 2012 (Fri)   #12
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Default Re: HS Football under the lights - SS debate please?

Quote:
Originally Posted by dennisoralls View Post
Wow you're tough!!
Well you did say:
Quote:
Originally Posted by dennisoralls View Post
OK, here are a couple. There was still a lot of light at the beginning of the game. Feel free to be as brutal as is appropriate.
LOL
Quote:
Originally Posted by dennisoralls View Post
I see what you're talking about. I was using single point, I think it's just a matter of I was thinking about so many things that I got sloppy on focus.
Like anything...there is a lot going on and to stay focused (pun) on...just takes time then everything will start slowing down. You'll get it.
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Old 7th of September 2012 (Fri)   #13
dennisoralls
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Default Re: HS Football under the lights - SS debate please?

Quote:
Originally Posted by dwarrenr View Post
Well you did say:


LOL


Like anything...there is a lot going on and to stay focused (pun) on...just takes time then everything will start slowing down. You'll get it.
I really appreciate you taking the time, I learned a ton (believe it or not) before I dared post here. Thanks to all of you.
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Old 7th of September 2012 (Fri)   #14
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Default Re: HS Football under the lights - SS debate please?

Quote:
Originally Posted by dwarrenr View Post
Only keeper is #1...but it still appears a little soft. All others it seems you've missed focused. #3 appears to be back focused and #4 appears to be front focused.
I agree, the softness in the pics is not due to shutter speed (1/800)
1/800 should freeze most football action (but not all!)
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Old 8th of September 2012 (Sat)   #15
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Default Re: HS Football under the lights - SS debate please?

Couple of additional comments.

Crop tight, in your first picture there is no benefit to all of the space around the QB.

No ball, no picture.

Shoot in RAW. If you do, you will have more flexibility to adjust exposure.
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