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Thread started 29 Jul 2010 (Thursday) 01:36
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Samyang Rokinon Vivitar 14 2.8 lens

 
brettjrob
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Norman, OK USA
May 14, 2013 21:07 |  #2086

Mookalafalas wrote in post #15932862external link
That sounds very strange. This lens has been out for a couple of years now, and it is almost unheard of for quality to go DOWN in a successful lens. I don't remember hearing problems like these...
One reason might be that the distance meter on the lens barrel isn't very accurate. If you set it to infinity when shooting things that are far away (which should be fine!) you are likely to have problems, because it's generally off. In fact, because the lens is so wide, when shooting something several meters away, the edges of the frame is likely to pick up things like the ground, walls, shrubbery (your feet!:)) that are much closer, and so may be out of focus. This is not because the lens is bad, however, just the user isn't use to this aspect of the lens. Just remember, the depth of focus on this is enormous! Unless you are trying to do close-ups of flowers or something, nothing should be out of focus (although field curvature may distort things near the edge). Just set the distance to much less than the distance of your subject. To repeat for the millionth time, if you set the distance at about 1.2 meters (4 ft.), at F5.6, everything from about 2.5 feet to INFINITY should be in focus. You can just leave it there and not worry anymore. I never worry about focus with this lens. For street shooting, I often don't even bother to look through the camera! I shoot from the hip, or just let my arm hang down and look off in another direction and click, click, click. People have no idea you are shooting them because you aren't focusing, and the camera may not be pointing anywhere NEAR them! It's so wide people almost next to the camera will still be in the picture. If you are shooting things close up indoors at F2.8, you will have to worry more about focus, but not too much more. Again, the DOF is giant on this thing.

Thanks for the input. Unfortunately, I'm fairly certain both copies I've had were decentered or otherwise optically sub-par. If you read reviews (particularly for the Rokinon variant) on Amazon or B&H, you'll see quite a few reports of severe copy variability. One of the top "helpful" reviews on Amazon states that they went through 3 copies before finding one that wasn't de-centered, but were ultimately very satisfied with the good copy they received. It seems that if you got a razor sharp copy on your first try, you should count yourself lucky.

I have played extensively with the focus ring, and have a good feel for how the actual focus deviates from the markings. The problem is that it seems the focal distance varies from one side of the lens to the other. For example, I can set the focus ring to the 3m mark, shoot a landscape, and the left 80% of the frame is sharp (except the corners at wide apertures). However, the right side is markedly softer. But interestingly, I found that if I included something much closer on the right edge (e.g., go out on my deck and shoot with the deck furniture near the right edge and faraway stuff to the left), the right side looks great! To me, this seems like a clear indication of decentering. If I crank the focus ring all the way to the end, past the infinity mark, the right edge improves a bit for distant objects -- but, of course, the rest of the frame suffers some. Seeing as I'll be using mine at infinity (for landscapes, sky, star trails, etc.) 95% of the time, it's unacceptable for me not to get even infinity focus across the frame.


Nikon D610, D5100
Samyang 14/2.8 | Nikon 18-35G, 24-85G VR, 70-200/4G VR

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drisley
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May 14, 2013 21:14 |  #2087

Thanks Mookalafalas for the great information. I'm excited!
Thanks Arob1000 for the positive reinforcement.


1D Mark III - 5D Mark IV - 24-70/2.8L - 70-200/2.8L Mark II - Samyang 14/2.8

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Mesmer
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Joined Oct 2007
May 15, 2013 10:30 as a reply to post 15932881 |  #2088

First copy. Rokinon. Good to go! :)


InstaGram (external link) Flickr (external link) | 5DmkIII | 35 1.4 | 85L II | 100L 2.8 Macro | 16-35L F4IS | 24-105L | 70-200L 2.8 II | E640 | (2) 580ex ii | 430ex ii

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Careyst
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Joined May 2012
NYC
May 16, 2013 19:30 |  #2089

Ordered my copy today. Can't wait!


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Canon EOS 5D Mark II Gripped |EF 70-200mm f/4L USM |Rokinon 14mm f/2.8]|EF 50mm f/1.4 USM | Sigma 35mm f/1.4 Art

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Mookalafalas
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Southern Taiwan
May 16, 2013 20:04 |  #2090

brettjrob wrote in post #15932899external link
Thanks for the input. Unfortunately, I'm fairly certain both copies I've had were decentered or otherwise optically sub-par. If you read reviews (particularly for the Rokinon variant) on Amazon or B&H, you'll see quite a few reports of severe copy variability. One of the top "helpful" reviews on Amazon states that they went through 3 copies before finding one that wasn't de-centered, but were ultimately very satisfied with the good copy they received. It seems that if you got a razor sharp copy on your first try, you should count yourself lucky.

I have played extensively with the focus ring, and have a good feel for how the actual focus deviates from the markings. The problem is that it seems the focal distance varies from one side of the lens to the other. For example, I can set the focus ring to the 3m mark, shoot a landscape, and the left 80% of the frame is sharp (except the corners at wide apertures). However, the right side is markedly softer. But interestingly, I found that if I included something much closer on the right edge (e.g., go out on my deck and shoot with the deck furniture near the right edge and faraway stuff to the left), the right side looks great! To me, this seems like a clear indication of decentering. If I crank the focus ring all the way to the end, past the infinity mark, the right edge improves a bit for distant objects -- but, of course, the rest of the frame suffers some. Seeing as I'll be using mine at infinity (for landscapes, sky, star trails, etc.) 95% of the time, it's unacceptable for me not to get even infinity focus across the frame.

Brett, I'm a little curious about what you are going for. You said you know the markings on the barrel are inaccurate, but will still shoot "95% at infinity"? Could this be why you are having so much trouble? Using your 6D, have you tried pulling all the way back to 1.5 meters and seeing what happens? Earlier in the thread, the people with troubles were those trying to shoot at infinity. Even the reviewer from Photozone said he thought there was something wrong with his until he ignored regular focusing common sense and just dialed it back to below 2M and everything was golden. Here's the quote:

"You may think that focusing should be a non-issue but we struggled at first during our field tests. Infinity focus is actually way "beyond" infinity - at least on our test sample. Consequently the initial field attempts were pretty bad but during our 2nd session we used settings at slightly less than 2m (which is a good idea anyway) for wide, open scenes and the results improved drastically."

Worked for me too, and I suspect for other people who are happy with the lens. If you haven't tried it yet, you might want to give it a shot. As the DOF still reaches to infinity at under 2M (F5.6, and not just for this lens, for any 14mm on a FF camera), you should be able to do even stars at this setting. BTW, I have the Rokinon too. I bought mine on Ebay from someone who had just bought it and was trying to unload it:). Good luck! I hope you get things ironed out, or a good copy, if that's what it takes.


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brettjrob
Dr. Goodness PHD
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Joined Jun 2006
Norman, OK USA
May 16, 2013 21:19 |  #2091

Mookalafalas wrote in post #15939296external link
Brett, I'm a little curious about what you are going for. You said you know the markings on the barrel are inaccurate, but will still shoot "95% at infinity"? Could this be why you are having so much trouble? Using your 6D, have you tried pulling all the way back to 1.5 meters and seeing what happens? Earlier in the thread, the people with troubles were those trying to shoot at infinity. Even the reviewer from Photozone said he thought there was something wrong with his until he ignored regular focusing common sense and just dialed it back to below 2M and everything was golden. Here's the quote:

"You may think that focusing should be a non-issue but we struggled at first during our field tests. Infinity focus is actually way "beyond" infinity - at least on our test sample. Consequently the initial field attempts were pretty bad but during our 2nd session we used settings at slightly less than 2m (which is a good idea anyway) for wide, open scenes and the results improved drastically."

Worked for me too, and I suspect for other people who are happy with the lens. If you haven't tried it yet, you might want to give it a shot. As the DOF still reaches to infinity at under 2M (F5.6, and not just for this lens, for any 14mm on a FF camera), you should be able to do even stars at this setting. BTW, I have the Rokinon too. I bought mine on Ebay from someone who had just bought it and was trying to unload it:). Good luck! I hope you get things ironed out, or a good copy, if that's what it takes.

I should have been more clear: I meant that I will be shooting subjects located at infinity (e.g., flat landscapes with lots of sky) 95% of the time. I immediately discovered the focus marking issue out of the box and adjusted accordingly.

Essentially, what seems to be happening on both my copies is that the right side is focusing closer than the left side at all times. So if I use live view to find maximum sharpness for distant subjects in the center or left of the frame, the right is OOF. If I crank the focus ring all the way right, *past* infinity, the right side gets slightly better. Regardless of the markings or what particular focal distance I'm at, there's a disparity in focus from left to right.


Nikon D610, D5100
Samyang 14/2.8 | Nikon 18-35G, 24-85G VR, 70-200/4G VR

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drisley
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May 16, 2013 22:19 |  #2092

I ordered mine from Adorama Monday night, because BH was to be closed for some holidays this week.
Well, APPARENTLY Adorama was closed too! But they didn't tell anybody on their site, and sent my tracking info Tuesday with a "order will ship later today" and it's been sitting at their store for the past 3 days. I won't buy from Adorama ever again but I'm excited about my lens. If I wanted to wait nearly 10 days for delivery (after this long weekend the earliest it will arrive will be Tues/Wed) then I would have bought from BH or Ebay and saved some money.


1D Mark III - 5D Mark IV - 24-70/2.8L - 70-200/2.8L Mark II - Samyang 14/2.8

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Careyst
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NYC
May 16, 2013 22:27 |  #2093

drisley wrote in post #15939674external link
I ordered mine from Adorama Monday night, because BH was to be closed for some holidays this week.
Well, APPARENTLY Adorama was closed too! But they didn't tell anybody on their site, and sent my tracking info Tuesday with a "order will ship later today" and it's been sitting at their store for the past 3 days. I won't buy from Adorama ever again but I'm excited about my lens. If I wanted to wait nearly 10 days for delivery (after this long weekend the earliest it will arrive will be Tues/Wed) then I would have bought from BH or Ebay and saved some money.

B&H and Adorama are both Jewish owned and this week is the Jewish holiday week, hence the closing.


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Canon EOS 5D Mark II Gripped |EF 70-200mm f/4L USM |Rokinon 14mm f/2.8]|EF 50mm f/1.4 USM | Sigma 35mm f/1.4 Art

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Mookalafalas
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Southern Taiwan
May 16, 2013 22:58 |  #2094

brettjrob wrote in post #15939516 (external link)
I should have been more clear: I meant that I will be shooting subjects located at infinity (e.g., flat landscapes with lots of sky) 95% of the time. I immediately discovered the focus marking issue out of the box and adjusted accordingly.

Essentially, what seems to be happening on both my copies is that the right side is focusing closer than the left side at all times. So if I use live view to find maximum sharpness for distant subjects in the center or left of the frame, the right is OOF. If I crank the focus ring all the way right, *past* infinity, the right side gets slightly better. Regardless of the markings or what particular focal distance I'm at, there's a disparity in focus from left to right.

We seem to have different ideas of focusing. As I understand it, if something is within the focal range, it will be in maximum focus. In other words, if something is 3M away, and you set your camera at 1M, and 3M is within the Depth of field, it will be just as sharp as if you set your camera to 3M, sharper with this particular lens, as the focus markings don't mean anything. In other words, if I were going to shoot the andromeda galaxy, I would set the focus to 1.5M, not 3M or infinity. It sounds like you are setting your distance far off, and finding things one one side are sharper than on the other side. I set my focus quite near, and everything is sharp--even if its waaaaay far away. Maybe that doesn't work with your lens, but if you haven't tried it yet, please try anyway. Just set it at 1.5M and check it out. I think you may be pleasantly surprised.
This picture was at 1.2, I think, because that is where I always set mine. I don't think the clouds would be any sharper, even if I set it at 2M or 3M or infinity. In fact, I think everything would have probably been worse, as after 2M with my lens, everything goes wonky.

IMAGE: http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7185/6968762755_60351e8088_b.jpg
[IMAGE'S LINK: http://www.flickr.com ...las-pixgalore/6968762755/] (external link)
IMG_5486-Edit-2.jpg (external link) by Mookalafalas (external link), on Flickr

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jmarshphoto
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Joined Apr 2011
Baltimore,MD
May 17, 2013 00:13 |  #2095

Nice shot Mooka^^ Great timing with the biker.
I haven't used this lens in over a year. Today I was reminded how much I missed it.

IMAGE NOT FOUND IMAGE IS A REDIRECT OR MISSING!
HTTP response: NOT FOUND | MIME changed to 'image/gif' | Redirected to error image by FLICKR

GOING DOWN FIGHTING (external link) by jmarshphoto (external link), on Flickr

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imonkey89
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Joined Jan 2009
Sydney, Australia
May 17, 2013 02:48 |  #2096

^Woah! That is an excellent image!


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jmarshphoto
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Baltimore,MD
May 17, 2013 08:52 |  #2097

Thankyou. It's one heck of a crazy place! :)


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Bond_Savingsbond
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Joined Jan 2011
Edmonton, Alberta
May 17, 2013 10:50 |  #2098

jmarshphoto wrote in post #15939927 (external link)
Nice shot Mooka^^ Great timing with the biker.
I haven't used this lens in over a year. Today I was reminded how much I missed it.

NOT FOUND IMAGE IS A REDIRECT OR MISSING!
HTTP response: NOT FOUND | MIME changed to 'image/gif' | Redirected to error image by FLICKR

GOING DOWN FIGHTING (external link) by jmarshphoto (external link), on Flickr

Print Worthy! That is beautiful!


500px (external link)
My website (external link)
CAMTOGRAPHY (external link)
Sony A7s, SEL28-70kit, SEL28mm F2
Samyang 135 (heavy), Nikon 105(dirty), Vivitar 75-205, Helios 56(broken),Pentax 50 F1.9 (dirty)

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henryp
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New York, NY
May 17, 2013 13:53 |  #2099

brettjrob wrote in post #15932089external link
And of course B&H has to be closed the whole week. I'm close to just going for the Samyang there after they re-open, even though it will set me back almost $50 more after shipping

I appreciate your impatience but we were just closed Tuesday afternoon, Wednesday & Thursday. :-)


Henry Posner
B&H Photo-Videoexternal link

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drisley
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May 18, 2013 13:34 |  #2100

Careyst wrote in post #15939697external link
B&H and Adorama are both Jewish owned and this week is the Jewish holiday week, hence the closing.

Bhphoto is nice enough to warn people about this and possible delays. Adorama on the other hand kept it secret and my 2 day delivery will now be nearly 10 days. Still excited.

Will the LR profile for this lens also work with a 1.3 Cropper 1D3?


1D Mark III - 5D Mark IV - 24-70/2.8L - 70-200/2.8L Mark II - Samyang 14/2.8

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Samyang Rokinon Vivitar 14 2.8 lens
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