Arte Automobilistica wrote in post #16461890
What shutter count would you expect an EOS kiss x4 In immaculate condition, hardly used, Like new to have? 5000?
Thanks for the credit card advice and my credit card company are investigating my case.
For me and I believe for most acknowledged photographers on this board, one would expect a low shutter count. But I personally understand that cosmetic condition has nothing to do with shutter count. Yes, potentially, if one uses a camera for a long period of time and so it has high shutter count, the camera likely won't be in like new condition.
KirkS518 wrote in post #16462171
I think part of the problem is that the software needed to determine shutter count is not something the general public is aware of.
Think of it this way, and this is purely hypothetical, but I think it makes sense. You're selling a phone. It looks great. No scratches, dents, etc., but you have no idea how many phone calls were made on it. It looks pretty much pristine. You list is as 'Like New'. Some buyer who is well versed in phone technology buys it, and knows of a third-party web-based software that can determine how many calls and texts the phone was used for. It's made 1 million calls & texts combined. The buyer is outraged that the phone has been used extensively. It still works. It still looks great. But because he has an awareness of this program, he has determined that the phone is not 'Like New'. Is it the sellers fault? Were they supposed to go through their phone bills and tally up the usage?
So I ask you this - does the camera work? Does it look like the picture(s) in the listing? Does it look like it was barely used, and well-cared for? How else should ebay have decided your claim?
If you had never heard of EOSCount, would you be happy with the camera? You're grievance is only a grievance because you have additional information that the general public isn't aware of being available.
And I'll ask again - do you have a link to the original auction (see my request at post #4).
This is a similar thought to mine about why eBay sided with the seller.
I recall a couple of times that I bought a couple of camera accordingly. Both times, I didn't ask for shutter count or seller didn't have access or know how to do it. Sellers described it accordingly and so it's my risk to buy it.
Arte Automobilistica wrote in post #16462989
It works but after extensive testing I sometimes can't increase the shutter speed past 1/200 in S mode and the screen goes dead every so often. I should have tested it fully on receipt, but after the shutter test I switched it off never to use again. The camera is the same one as in the listing pictures. Compared to my 8k photo x4 (which I have owned from new) It does not look barely used. I would not have bought it if I had seen it first. It looks like it was used by a studio photographer: high live view count, severe marks on USB port and tripod mount. As to whether the seller knew or not is largely irrelevant. The fact is she gave a warrantee as to the condition of the camera. She could have said nothing but she used specific words which I relied on. Why won't she (and eBay) allow a return. That would be the fairest option. She is in no worse position and if she believes her own story can sell the camera using the same listing. http://www.ebay.co.uk ...Docks&hash=item27d9b2d0cf
(sorry for not including it earlier).
I still have the option to appeal the eBay decision. I should ask eBay if they would uphold my sale if I use the exact same listing. Not that I would but it may "pressure" them to find in my favour.
It will be interesting to see what Visa says. If that doesn't work then I will have to sell it for spares and repair and suck up the loss (lesson time).
I agree smacati why wouldn't you give a shutter count as it can only assist your sale?
No more eBay purchases of over £50 from now on and ask more questions!
First thing first, by looking at the pictures in that listing, it looks nothing close to being "immaculate" to me. It looks to be in bad shape if you ask me, especially the lens. (It could be bad pictures.) Along with the very short description and she sells mostly apparel, that would have raised a red flag on how accurate this seller described her item. But that's me.
That said, "like new" is a judgment call, I guess. (Personally, I don't see that as being like new.) Had you have included how the camera has issues in the first place, you might have had a better shot of winning the case. Also, based on my personal experiences, if you ask a lot of questions before buying/bidding, especially when seller doesn't put enough info in the description, you'll have a much much higher chance of winning a case if something goes wrong. I think that's what goes against you in this case.
I'm not siding with eBay or the seller and I feel your frustration. What I've learned from using eBay for over 10 years is no eBay member is fully protected. Their policy is to protect themselves and someone, some members, will be screwed in the process. Understanding how they work is the best way to protect yourself.