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FORUMS Photography Talk by Genre General Photography Talk
Thread started 24 Nov 2013 (Sunday) 13:56
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Canon 5D III vs. Nikon D800E Test

 
KeyserSoze1
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Dec 02, 2013 00:10 |  #331

Sony Sensors are on another level tbh. I hope Canon adapts but it seems like they're quite content with their sensor tech at this point. Not a lot of photographers really care about pushing shadows,


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masberg24
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Dec 02, 2013 00:36 |  #332

Don't say anymore keysersoze....they're going to bully you into believing which one is better!


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HoodedJustice
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Dec 02, 2013 01:22 |  #333

KeyserSoze1 wrote in post #16494391external link
Sony Sensors are on another level tbh. I hope Canon adapts but it seems like they're quite content with their sensor tech at this point. Not a lot of photographers really care about pushing shadows,

Not true.


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sega62
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Dec 02, 2013 01:39 |  #334

jocau wrote in post #16494295external link
I didn't know that landscape photography was invented just after the Sony Exmor sensor got released... Poor Ansel Adams...

That being said, Canon has been trailing the Sony Exmor sensor for way too long now. It's about time they up their game and release a sensor that crushes the Sony Exmor sensor in every way.

Sure thing, i mean specially in these days where they can take the DNA od that sensor and copy it......
I hope they move on in 2014 for their sake.




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sega62
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Dec 02, 2013 01:42 |  #335

KeyserSoze1 wrote in post #16494391external link
Sony Sensors are on another level tbh. I hope Canon adapts but it seems like they're quite content with their sensor tech at this point. Not a lot of photographers really care about pushing shadows,

Its a Nikon thing pushing shadows that way, I do it but not 5 stops....
I like shadows in a way, or else it looks like HDR, dull and even lighting.




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pwm2
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Dec 02, 2013 02:31 |  #336

sega62 wrote in post #16494503external link
Sure thing, i mean specially in these days where they can take the DNA od that sensor and copy it......
I hope they move on in 2014 for their sake.

You think "moving on" is something that takes some months or up to a year? Hopefully, Canon has already moved on since a long time ago.


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sega62
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Dec 02, 2013 02:52 |  #337

pwm2 wrote in post #16494544external link
You think "moving on" is something that takes some months or up to a year? Hopefully, Canon has already moved on since a long time ago.

They got the money and more money to come with a solution




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pwm2
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Dec 02, 2013 03:09 |  #338

sega62 wrote in post #16494557external link
They got the money and more money to come with a solution

Here is a hint - there's something called lead times. Just producing an elecronic device, a company may have lead times of 4-12 months to get components allocated to buy.

Need to design a new sensor? Lots of extra time needed.
Need to build a new fab to produce that sensor? Huge amounts of extra time needed.

While a single person may pick up the wallet and buy what he/she wants more or less instantly, that generally isn't the case of larger companies.

The only way Canon can speed anything up significantly by picking up the wallet is if buying the Sony Exmor sensor. But that wouldn't be good for us. And there are no guarantees that Sony wants to sell. Or even that Sony is allowed to sell - Nikon may have negotiated a contract term that Sony may not sell to Canon...


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sega62
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Dec 02, 2013 03:27 |  #339

pwm2 wrote in post #16494576external link
Here is a hint - there's something called lead times. Just producing an elecronic device, a company may have lead times of 4-12 months to get components allocated to buy.

Need to design a new sensor? Lots of extra time needed.
Need to build a new fab to produce that sensor? Huge amounts of extra time needed.

While a single person may pick up the wallet and buy what he/she wants more or less instantly, that generally isn't the case of larger companies.

The only way Canon can speed anything up significantly by picking up the wallet is if buying the Sony Exmor sensor. But that wouldn't be good for us. And there are no guarantees that Sony wants to sell. Or even that Sony is allowed to sell - Nikon may have negotiated a contract term that Sony may not sell to Canon...

That is what i was getting to, who care about the cie that makes the sensors, as long as it promotes the sales.....
And that there is a gain in quality, but at what price......




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pwm2
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Dec 02, 2013 04:26 |  #340

sega62 wrote in post #16494593external link
That is what i was getting to, who care about the cie that makes the sensors, as long as it promotes the sales.....
And that there is a gain in quality, but at what price......

We customers should care a lot about who makes the sensors. Monopoly is the best way to get stagnation.

Right now, Sony is busy thinking about how they can improve the Exmor sensor since they know that Canon will not just still idle. But if Canon buys Exmor sensors, then Sony have no reason to care. Bad for Sony. Bad for Nikon. Bad for Canon. Bad for us. So you really should start to care.


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jdizzle
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Dec 02, 2013 06:19 |  #341

jocau wrote in post #16494295external link
I didn't know that landscape photography was invented just after the Sony Exmor sensor got released... Poor Ansel Adams...

That being said, Canon has been trailing the Sony Exmor sensor for way too long now. It's about time they up their game and release a sensor that crushes the Sony Exmor sensor in every way.

And what did Canon release to close the year? A white Rebel Kiss! :lol::p




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jdizzle
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Dec 02, 2013 06:24 |  #342

pwm2 wrote in post #16494576external link
Here is a hint - there's something called lead times. Just producing an elecronic device, a company may have lead times of 4-12 months to get components allocated to buy.

Need to design a new sensor? Lots of extra time needed.
Need to build a new fab to produce that sensor? Huge amounts of extra time needed.

While a single person may pick up the wallet and buy what he/she wants more or less instantly, that generally isn't the case of larger companies.

The only way Canon can speed anything up significantly by picking up the wallet is if buying the Sony Exmor sensor. But that wouldn't be good for us. And there are no guarantees that Sony wants to sell. Or even that Sony is allowed to sell - Nikon may have negotiated a contract term that Sony may not sell to Canon...

Perfect example is that Sony and Zeiss have an agreement for AF lenses.




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Lowner
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Dec 02, 2013 08:50 |  #343

pwm2 wrote in post #16494576external link
Need to design a new sensor? Lots of extra time needed.
Need to build a new fab to produce that sensor? Huge amounts of extra time needed.

Which is exactly why Canon should have done something long before now. And that's assuming they are actually doing something, which I have seen no evidence of.

Get of your backside Canon and start thinking about the next generation of sensor, and I don't just mean MP size and ISO speed! Maybe then you will be able to compete with the Nikon 800E?


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pwm2
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Dec 02, 2013 09:09 |  #344

Lowner wrote in post #16494924external link
Which is exactly why Canon should have done something long before now. And that's assuming they are actually doing something, which I have seen no evidence of.

Get of your backside Canon and start thinking about the next generation of sensor, and I don't just mean MP size and ISO speed! Maybe then you will be able to compete with the Nikon 800E?

I'm pretty sure they have done something long before now. But if we assume 3-4 years lead time from decision to financing, agreements, design, factory, trimming etc, then lots of people get the chance to complain that they aren't doing anything.

The problem here is that they can't inform the market until they have a product on the way to the stores, or the sales would tumble.


5DMk2 + BG-E6 | 40D + BG-E2N | 350D + BG-E3 + RC-1 | Elan 7E | Minolta Dimage 7U | (Gear thread)
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davidc502
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Dec 02, 2013 09:42 |  #345

sega62 wrote in post #16494509external link
Its a Nikon thing pushing shadows that way, I do it but not 5 stops....
I like shadows in a way, or else it looks like HDR, dull and even lighting.

I'm not a demanding shooter, but I do push the shadows. The question is how many push the shadows to the point where they see banding. My guess is not many. However, if one tends to under-expose or is in a situation where underexposing is a must, banding may be seen sooner, when pushing the shadows. Having said that, this problem may affect more than what I figure.

When I shoot dance competitions, it's a good idea to underexpose 1-2 stops or risk a lot of clipping/blown highlights. So far with my 5d2, in that situation, when I push the shadows, I've yet to see banding. Pulling out the shadows 2 stops is hardly pushing the envelope, but considering these photos are underexposed to begin with, I thought I might see some banding, but no.


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