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FORUMS Photography Talk by Genre General Photography Talk 
Thread started 24 Nov 2013 (Sunday) 13:56
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Canon 5D III vs. Nikon D800E Test

 
davidc502
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Dec 02, 2013 15:05 |  #376

gabebalazs wrote in post #16495896 (external link)
Go back and read my original post, then decide if I was disrespectful.
I didn't say anything bad about DR did I? I just stated my opinion and shared my experience and feedback I get from people regarding something that most people don't necessarily notice. I also posted an analogy, I wonder if you could tell me the fine tonal differences that my Suhr guitar produces compared to a Strat. So should I be offended if you can't hear it? :)
Just relax, I think you're overreacting a bit. But I apologize if I hurt your feelings. :confused:

Fellow musician here.......... Agree with the tonal analogy in guitars equating photography. Unless you have a trained ear to know the different tonal qualities, you're not going to know the difference, and if you can hear the difference you won't know why they are different. Same with pictures........ a untrained eye might see that there's a difference, but they won't know why. (general statement and won't cover every situation)

Can't tell you how many folks love my Gibson Epiphone compared to my Gibson Standard or Studio.


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jdizzle
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Dec 02, 2013 15:11 |  #377

davidc502 wrote in post #16495930 (external link)
Queston:

1. What professional is going to take photo's with two systems (side by side) and ask customers to decide between the two? Talk about trying to confuse people.

2. If you did ask your customers to choose between the higher dynamic range of the Nikon compared to Canon, do you think they could tell you which one they thought was better and why? (untrained eye). The answer may surprise you. I know which photo most pro's would choose, but costomers are different.

3. Of course everyone would like for customers to have the very latest and greatest in technology, and we want to present ourselves as being the best. Owning the D800 and having the skill needed to run it would certainly be positive step forward to that goal. However, not everyone has the money or means to own "the very best" or at least the very best in a certain criteria (like DR). Does that mean customer A is being short sticked because photos are being generated from lesser equipment? Absolutely NOT. If the customer is very satisfied with your work (regardless of the equipment), then you have completed the job.

My 2¢

Most of my customers will not tell the difference but, I do get the question of what gear I use every once in a while.




  
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Hogloff
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Dec 02, 2013 15:19 |  #378

davidc502 wrote in post #16495930 (external link)
Queston:

1. What professional is going to take photo's with two systems (side by side) and ask customers to decide between the two? Talk about trying to confuse people.

2. If you did ask your customers to choose between the higher dynamic range of the Nikon compared to Canon, do you think they could tell you which one they thought was better and why? (untrained eye). The answer may surprise you. I know which photo most pro's would choose, but costomers are different.

3. Of course everyone would like for customers to have the very latest and greatest in technology, and we want to present ourselves as being the best. Owning the D800 and having the skill needed to run it would certainly be positive step forward to that goal. However, not everyone has the money or means to own "the very best" or at least the very best in a certain criteria (like DR). Does that mean customer A is being short sticked because photos are being generated from lesser equipment? Absolutely NOT. If the customer is very satisfied with your work (regardless of the equipment), then you have completed the job.

My 2¢

I didn't imply I would shoot with two different cameras and show two images to my customers. My prints hang in galleries next to other prints and you bet there is a difference between prints. Yes, some of it is different visions etc..., but other parts come down to the abilities of the hardward used to take the photo. I take landscapes, many of which are during the sweet hours of the day where shadows exist. You bet there is a noticable difference between prints that have their dynamic range well managed compared to prints where the shadows exhibit very little detail and are more just black blobs. Right now, most photographers manage dynamic range either by using GND filters or merging multiple images, neither technique produces guaranteed results. A camera that allows say 2 more stops of dynamic range will alleviate much, but not all, usage of these techniques in managing dynamic range.

If you photograph under ideal controlled lighting conditions, then you don't have to worry about this...but mother nature is not controlled and managing dynamic range is one of the biggest issues in landscape photography today.




  
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mchong75
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Dec 02, 2013 15:29 |  #379

Very interesting how this thread has transpired since I created it.

Well, after couple of months of using it daily for several hours, I've decided to stay with Canon.


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HoodedJustice
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Dec 02, 2013 15:34 |  #380

Hogloff wrote in post #16496004 (external link)
I didn't imply I would shoot with two different cameras and show two images to my customers. My prints hang in galleries next to other prints and you bet there is a difference between prints. Yes, some of it is different visions etc..., but other parts come down to the abilities of the hardward used to take the photo. I take landscapes, many of which are during the sweet hours of the day where shadows exist. You bet there is a noticable difference between prints that have their dynamic range well managed compared to prints where the shadows exhibit very little detail and are more just black blobs. Right now, most photographers manage dynamic range either by using GND filters or merging multiple images, neither technique produces guaranteed results. A camera that allows say 2 more stops of dynamic range will alleviate much, but not all, usage of these techniques in managing dynamic range.

If you photograph under ideal controlled lighting conditions, then you don't have to worry about this...but mother nature is not controlled and managing dynamic range is one of the biggest issues in landscape photography today.

You're seriously talking to a wall. People are so fanboyish they can't admit faults.


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jdizzle
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Dec 02, 2013 15:44 |  #381

Hogloff wrote in post #16496004 (external link)
I didn't imply I would shoot with two different cameras and show two images to my customers. My prints hang in galleries next to other prints and you bet there is a difference between prints. Yes, some of it is different visions etc..., but other parts come down to the abilities of the hardward used to take the photo. I take landscapes, many of which are during the sweet hours of the day where shadows exist. You bet there is a noticable difference between prints that have their dynamic range well managed compared to prints where the shadows exhibit very little detail and are more just black blobs. Right now, most photographers manage dynamic range either by using GND filters or merging multiple images, neither technique produces guaranteed results. A camera that allows say 2 more stops of dynamic range will alleviate much, but not all, usage of these techniques in managing dynamic range.

If you photograph under ideal controlled lighting conditions, then you don't have to worry about this...but mother nature is not controlled and managing dynamic range is one of the biggest issues in landscape photography today.

Not many may know this but, banding will show up in large prints.




  
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Hogloff
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Dec 02, 2013 15:48 |  #382

jdizzle wrote in post #16496064 (external link)
Not many may know this but, banding will show up in large prints.

Doesn't even need to be large prints. I've had banding issues with my 5D2 in prints as small as 16x20. I dare not push the shadows of a 5D2 image for fear of ugly banding noise, that Lightroom or Nick Define cannot deal with.




  
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David ­ Arbogast
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Dec 02, 2013 15:54 |  #383

jdizzle wrote in post #16495967 (external link)
If he was alive today, he would be using digital medium format.

Absolutely. :)

mchong75 wrote in post #16496028 (external link)
Very interesting how this thread has transpired since I created it.

Well, after couple of months of using it daily for several hours, I've decided to stay with Canon.

Can't go wrong either way. In the end you went with what works best for you and only you can decide that. I made a similar decision, but totally respect those that strongly prefer Nikon. Your thread has provided a nice platform for discussing the pluses and minuses of each. I know that the Sony sensor outperforms the Canon sensor, but, like you, I personally preferred using a 5D III over a D800. :)

It's just too bad that this stuff can't be discussed (by some) without going overboard with hyperbole. It's not all black and white. A better sensor does not necessarily make a better camera, especially when personal preferences are concerned. There is no reason for Canon fanboys to be overly defensive about the fact that Canon sensors aren't quite as good as the Sony ones. And there is no reason to belittle some photographers' strong desire for Canon to improve their sensors to match or exceed Sony's sensor performance with regards to shadow details.


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jdizzle
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Dec 02, 2013 16:09 |  #384

mchong75 wrote in post #16496028 (external link)
Very interesting how this thread has transpired since I created it.

Well, after couple of months of using it daily for several hours, I've decided to stay with Canon.

That's great. As long as you get what you need with your gear is all that matters. For me personally, there are better options out there. I went medium format and have everything I need for DR. Nikon makes great gear but, I acknowledge they aren't perfect either but, at the end of the day it gets the job done.




  
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jdizzle
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Dec 02, 2013 16:11 |  #385

Hogloff wrote in post #16496072 (external link)
Doesn't even need to be large prints. I've had banding issues with my 5D2 in prints as small as 16x20. I dare not push the shadows of a 5D2 image for fear of ugly banding noise, that Lightroom or Nick Define cannot deal with.

I agree. It's happened to me as well.




  
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airfrogusmc
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Dec 02, 2013 16:15 |  #386

jdizzle wrote in post #16495967 (external link)
If he was alive today, he would be using digital medium format.

I got a feeling he would be shooting large format and a digital B&W back and would have come up with a digital zone system. ;)




  
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davidc502
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Dec 02, 2013 16:22 |  #387

mchong75 wrote in post #16496028 (external link)
Very interesting how this thread has transpired since I created it.

Well, after couple of months of using it daily for several hours, I've decided to stay with Canon.

To the Original Poster --

Would you care to expound on why you decided to stay with Canon after all of those DR tests?

You have everyone's attention........


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sega62
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Dec 02, 2013 16:37 |  #388

davidc502 wrote in post #16496156 (external link)
To the Original Poster --

Would you care to expound on why you decided to stay with Canon after all of those DR tests?

You have everyone's attention........

He tried to sell it, and I think there is a chip on the camera or something, and he will lose too much money.
Hope its not the case.
Or else we would have debate for nothing :rolleyes:




  
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davidc502
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Dec 02, 2013 16:47 |  #389

sega62 wrote in post #16496193 (external link)
He tried to sell it, and I think there is a chip on the camera or something, and he will lose too much money.
Hope its not the case.
Or else we would have debate for nothing :rolleyes:

It's a good debate no matter the side of the fence you're on.

I feel I understand people's reasoning for both sides of the debate, and IMHO both sides have legitimate arguments.


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mchong75
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Dec 02, 2013 16:57 |  #390

David,

D800E is great at recovering shadows without the banding issues and couple of other great things. (Sharper and larger MP for cropping)

But, here's why I'M staying with Canon.

1) White Balance - 5D III / Canon's WB is more true to color IMO.

2) When viewing from the LCD vs. through the view finder, I noticed a greenish tint on the LCD.

3) LiveView AF during poor light, Canon is better. Canon was always locking focus, whereas, Nikon was unable to lock AF.

4) Ergonomic - After much improvement over the 5D and 5D II, 5D III overall grip and the layout is better than the D800E.

5) Comparing the speedlite system, ETTL and overall functionality of Canon 600EX and the ST-E3 was better from Canon.

6) In camera metering on the 5D III is more accurate and to my liking.


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