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Thread started 28 Jan 2015 (Wednesday) 03:55
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Facebook to own your images?

 
russellsnr2
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Greek Island of Rhodes.. Ex. Sussex @ Cumbria
Jan 28, 2015 03:55 |  #1

Hi, Can anyone confirm this that I found posted on another site?
Not sure what the language is maybe German
http://www.radartv.nl ...s-vernieuwde-voorwaarden/external link

Part translated with on line translator.


"On February 1 will force the new privacy policy of Facebook. In these conditions it is clearly stated what Facebook can do with your photos. Use as your profile picture for commercial purposes. For many people this is scare and there is also a lot of noise to occur. It seems that your pictures are not only yours. Also presenter and producer Sipke Jan Bousema and inventor William Leaning here quite shocked by. They determined the app Reclaim, which you pictures may watermarks".


Many Thanks,
Russell.

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Lumens
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Jan 28, 2015 07:02 |  #2

I post a number of pics on Facebook for family and friends. I make it a point to export in Lightroom to "Email" size before posting and I add a copyright mark. Generally this will make the jpeg too small for most commercial use. Yes anyone on the net can and DOES steal your work and while you can get a copyright, the legal process will put you in the poor house LONG BEFORE you can recover any loss.

Unfortunately the fine print on the Internet allows theft to become legal or uncontrollable in many situations. The only solution is not to post at all, but I believe the main reason we shoot is for others to see what we have captured. I do my best to make sure what I post is less desirable for thieves, legal or illegal.

Any more ideas on how to make posting safer please let us all know.


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smythie
I wasn't even trying
Joined Jun 2009
Sydney - Australia
Jan 28, 2015 16:29 |  #3

I don't upload photos to Facebook. I upload to a domain I pay for and link to the images from Facebook (or any site really)


Gear List

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benji25
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Twin Cities
Jan 29, 2015 11:52 as a reply to smythie's post |  #4

Facebook will not own your images. They need the rights to them in order to display them on their servers and other places.

If Facebook wants to use your photo for promotional purposes they would much rather pay a small fee then have a lawsuit brought and pay their $1,000 an hour lawyers to defend it.

Use common sense people.

Also this was already covered here: http://photography-on-the.net ...read.php?t=1412324&​page=1


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Nathan
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Boston
Feb 03, 2015 09:01 |  #5

There's a Snope article on this. It's not true.


Taking photos with a fancy camera does not make me a photographer.
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itsallart
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Feb 06, 2015 23:17 |  #6

BTW it's Dutch :) and it's just another rumor, I think :)


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vk2gwk
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Post has been edited over 2 years ago by vk2gwk.
Feb 06, 2015 23:55 |  #7

The thread mentioned above covered the same subject but died about a month ago.
I agree with other posters that Facebook needs to have a non-exclusive right or "license" to publish your uploaded photos. Just like on this forum we agree to the publication of our images by accepting the forum rules.

However....
There is a distinct difference in the wording used by Facebook:

You own all of the content and information you post on Facebook, and you can control how it is shared through your privacy and application settings. In addition:
For content that is covered by intellectual property rights, like photos and videos (IP content), you specifically give us the following permission, subject to your privacy and application settings: you grant us a non-exclusive, transferable, sub-licensable, royalty-free, worldwide license to use any IP content that you post on or in connection with Facebook (IP License). This IP License ends when you delete your IP content or your account unless your content has been shared with others, and they have not deleted it.

and the wording in the POTN forum rules:

1. (The ownership legalese)
This forum is international discussion forum about photography, photos, gear and techniques.
By registering and making posts on the photography-on-the.net Digital Photography Forums, you agree to abide by the Forum Rules of Use, both stated and unstated.
By posting messages to the photography-on-the.net Digital Photography Forums you give forum owner and maintainers permission to permanently store all message content, present it for public viewing, backup it to any location and media, present it in other form, modify *, delete, or make any use whatsoever in the Forums.

I am just a simple retired lawyer and certainly no expert in copyright law but I think that Facebook got/is asking for far more than they need to just publish your content. My apologies for the bold and coloured sections in the quote. It is just to help others read the legalese.
As others mentioned: they may not "steal" your photos for external use but with the current wording in their "terms" they can.
Others may think differently. There is a lot of speculation from bush-lawyers and other people that cannot read properly . I would like to hear the opinion of a real expert in this field (without paying a fee :) )


My name is Henk. and I believe "It is all in the eye of the beholder....."
Image Editing is allowed. Please explain what you did!
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Mozes
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Holland
Feb 07, 2015 03:50 |  #8

russellsnr2 wrote in post #17403753external link
Hi, Can anyone confirm this that I found posted on another site?
Not sure what the language is maybe German
http://www.radartv.nl ...s-vernieuwde-voorwaarden/external link

Part translated with on line translator.


"On February 1 will force the new privacy policy of Facebook. In these conditions it is clearly stated what Facebook can do with your photos. Use as your profile picture for commercial purposes. For many people this is scare and there is also a lot of noise to occur. It seems that your pictures are not only yours. Also presenter and producer Sipke Jan Bousema and inventor William Leaning here quite shocked by. They determined the app Reclaim, which you pictures may watermarks".

Radar is a dutch television show.
That episode was about the new rules off facebook.

You can reclaim your photo's on facebook by adding a watermark.
What was happening is this.
Someone made a app, called reclaimexternal link,
Its just ad a watermark on the photos.
So people start to use it, and then something strange happens.
All the reclaimed pictures where removed from some users facebook profile.
And replaced with the old not reclaimed pictures, (facebook does have a backup from all pictures).

Germany do have better privacy rules.
Facebook may not use there photo's for advertising.


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BigAl007
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Joined Dec 2010
Repps cum Bastwick, Gt Yarmouth, Norfolk, UK.
Feb 07, 2015 05:37 as a reply to vk2gwk's post |  #9

VK2GWK In the section of the licence that you highlighted in red I think it would have been better to have gone all the way to the end of the word Facebook. As that significantly limits the terms of the licence compared to how it would be without those extra words. I think part of the reasoning for FB to mention images used in advertising is simple. FB want to be able to insert adverts around your images when they are displayed within FB. I'm sure it would not be long before someone tried suing FB because their image was displayed next to an advert to which they objected. As advertising is a major revenue stream for FB its not surprising that they want to protect it.

To be honest i am far more concerned about the methods of Pinterest. I see no reason why Pinterest should be able to host content directly, when it would be much simpler to just store the link. Of course that means that they will end up with broken links if the content is removed. This is something that they do not like, neither do the users, but why should a company like Pinterest be able to prevent you from removing your content from the web if you so wish. I know that they now offer a do not pin tag. IMO they should be using an OK to pin tag as the default situation. I know that they are hiding behind the Google Images ruling, but while Google caches the image, when the image is removed the cached version will disappear once Google re indexes the site. So those images quite quickly vanish. That is far from the case with Pinterest. I sincerely believe that Pinterest is the largest misuser of IP in the world. Not only that but they encourage their users to engage in IP theft for Pinterest's own benefit.

Alan


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Dan ­ Marchant
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Where I'm from is unimportant, it's where I'm going that counts.
Feb 07, 2015 20:20 |  #10

BigAl007 wrote in post #17419858external link
VK2GWK In the section of the licence that you highlighted in red I think it would have been better to have gone all the way to the end of the word Facebook. As that significantly limits the terms of the licence compared to how it would be without those extra words.

+1 to this. The end of the sentence has a major impact on its meaning and the scope of the license and shouldn't be ignored.


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vk2gwk
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Post has been last edited over 2 years ago by vk2gwk. 2 edits done in total.
Feb 08, 2015 00:22 |  #11

The scope is that obvious that it does not need to be highlighted. if I do not post "on or in connection with Facebook" it would not concern Facebook and Facebook wouldn't need "rights".
Just compare the wording that POTN uses with the Facebook text.


My name is Henk. and I believe "It is all in the eye of the beholder....."
Image Editing is allowed. Please explain what you did!
5D MkIV 5DMkIII, 50D, 24-105/1:4L IS USM + 100-400/4-5.6L IS USM + 50mm 1.4 USM + Tamron 70-200mm F/2.8 VC + Sigma 150-600mm Sports + 580EXII + 430EX + YN568EXII, triggers, reflectors, umbrellas and some more bits and pieces...
Photos on: Flickr! (external link) and on my own web site. (external link)

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Dan ­ Marchant
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Feb 08, 2015 06:55 |  #12

vk2gwk wrote in post #17421157external link
The scope is that obvious that it does not need to be highlighted. if I do not post "on or in connection with Facebook" it would not concern Facebook and Facebook wouldn't need "rights".

Clearly it isn't that obvious as you misunderstood it. The limitation resulting from the text "on or in connection with Facebook" is one upon Facebook, not you, I or any other user. It means that the license we grant them only applies "on or in connection with Facebook" - hence they can not legally use the images outside of Facebook.


Dan Marchant
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OhLook
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Feb 08, 2015 11:33 |  #13

vk2gwk wrote in post #17419612external link
For content that is covered by intellectual property rights, like photos and videos (IP content), you specifically give us the following permission, subject to your privacy and application settings: you grant us a non-exclusive, transferable, sub-licensable, royalty-free, worldwide license to use any IP content that you post on or in connection with Facebook (IP License). This IP License ends when you delete your IP content or your account unless your content has been shared with others, and they have not deleted it.

Dan Marchant wrote in post #17421389external link
Clearly it isn't that obvious as you misunderstood it. The limitation resulting from the text "on or in connection with Facebook" is one upon Facebook, not you, I or any other user. It means that the license we grant them only applies "on or in connection with Facebook" - hence they can not legally use the images outside of Facebook.

No. Listen to the old editor here. You construe "on or in connection with Facebook" as modifying "use." I think the more natural reading is to construe it as modifying "post," like this:

you grant us a non-exclusive, transferable, sub-licensable, royalty-free, worldwide license to use any IP content that you post on or in connection with Facebook

Another way to put it: "You grant us a . . . license to use whatever IP content you post on or in connection with Facebook."

It seems to me that this clause, if interpreted literally, would entitle FB to license your photos to any buyer who didn't require exclusivity--and lawyers do interpret clauses literally when a literal interpretation is in their favor.


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vk2gwk
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One Mile Beach, NSW 2316, Australia
Feb 08, 2015 14:25 |  #14

That is the way I understood it also! Like one of my wise teachers in law school taught me: "Words are never clear". Sometimes people read in words what they wish to read and overlook ambiguities that may cause problems.

It can very well be that Facebook acts in good faith but they should have used a less ambiguous wording - like the ones used for the POTN forum. Unless they change their wording I won't put photos on Facebook.


My name is Henk. and I believe "It is all in the eye of the beholder....."
Image Editing is allowed. Please explain what you did!
5D MkIV 5DMkIII, 50D, 24-105/1:4L IS USM + 100-400/4-5.6L IS USM + 50mm 1.4 USM + Tamron 70-200mm F/2.8 VC + Sigma 150-600mm Sports + 580EXII + 430EX + YN568EXII, triggers, reflectors, umbrellas and some more bits and pieces...
Photos on: Flickr! (external link) and on my own web site. (external link)

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Dan ­ Marchant
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Where I'm from is unimportant, it's where I'm going that counts.
Feb 08, 2015 21:05 |  #15

OhLook wrote in post #17421785external link
No. Listen to the old editor here. You construe "on or in connection with Facebook" as modifying "use." I think the more natural reading is to construe it as modifying "post," like this:

you grant us a non-exclusive, transferable, sub-licensable, royalty-free, worldwide license to use any IP content that you post on or in connection with Facebook

Another way to put it: "You grant us a . . . license to use whatever IP content you post on or in connection with Facebook."

I construe it the way I do for the following reasons...
1. Your interpretation makes no sense because it has already been stated earlier in the text that the license relates to information posted to FB, so there is no need to repeat the "on FB part" - It would amount to a license that says "You allow us to use information you post on FB that you post on FB".
2. The section quoted has moved on from you posting on FB and is now talking about FBs rights when using that content therefore the modifier applies to their rights.


Dan Marchant
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