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FORUMS Canon Cameras, Lenses & Accessories Canon EOS Digital Cameras
Thread started 05 Feb 2015 (Thursday) 07:12
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OFFICIAL : 5DS and 5DS R Announced

 
AJSJones
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Apr 16, 2015 00:45 |  #1156

idkdc wrote in post #17519212external link
Right, I remember that. I thought ETTR was a Canon thing, overexpose and bring it down, while Nikon is the opposite, underexpose and bring it up in post. Is this correct?

If you don't set your (desired) highlights just below saturation, you lose DR in either system. If you have DR to spare, you can keep the higher highlights if you so choose.


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sploo
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Apr 16, 2015 03:14 as a reply to AJSJones's post |  #1157

idkdc wrote in post #17519212external link
Right, I remember that. I thought ETTR was a Canon thing, overexpose and bring it down, while Nikon is the opposite, underexpose and bring it up in post. Is this correct?

It's just a general technique for getting good signal-to-noise from the sensor and fine gradations in the digital image. AFAIU it should be applicable to just about any sensor or brand.

As AJS has noted - it's about setting desired highlights just below saturation. I.e. put the brightest detail you want to keep as far to the right of the histogram as possible. That way, you'll drag the best possible quality from the sensor, whilst keeping the highlights you wanted. How much (usable) shadow detail you get is then a function of the system's DR.

Obviously if a scene has very low contrast, it's entirely possible it'll look overexposed in camera (i.e. a small range of brightnesses on the histogram, all bunched up to the right). If a scene has wide DR then it's possible the majority of the scene may look underexposed, as putting your chosen highlight at the right of the histogram results in the other detail being a bit dark (i.e. a light in a night street scene). That's not too much of a problem with a sensor with good DR, as you can still recover good detail from the darker areas.


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idkdc
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Apr 16, 2015 10:07 |  #1158

AJSJones wrote in post #17519272external link
If you don't set your (desired) highlights just below saturation, you lose DR in either system. If you have DR to spare, you can keep the higher highlights if you so choose.


sploo wrote in post #17519365external link
It's just a general technique for getting good signal-to-noise from the sensor and fine gradations in the digital image. AFAIU it should be applicable to just about any sensor or brand.

As AJS has noted - it's about setting desired highlights just below saturation. I.e. put the brightest detail you want to keep as far to the right of the histogram as possible. That way, you'll drag the best possible quality from the sensor, whilst keeping the highlights you wanted. How much (usable) shadow detail you get is then a function of the system's DR.

Obviously if a scene has very low contrast, it's entirely possible it'll look overexposed in camera (i.e. a small range of brightnesses on the histogram, all bunched up to the right). If a scene has wide DR then it's possible the majority of the scene may look underexposed, as putting your chosen highlight at the right of the histogram results in the other detail being a bit dark (i.e. a light in a night street scene). That's not too much of a problem with a sensor with good DR, as you can still recover good detail from the darker areas.

Got it. Thanks! I usually just bracket, but I'll give it a try for a landscape scene that only works with one exposure without gnds.


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sploo
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Apr 16, 2015 15:34 |  #1159

idkdc wrote in post #17519704external link
Got it. Thanks! I usually just bracket, but I'll give it a try for a landscape scene that only works with one exposure without gnds.

You're welcome.

It's entirely possible that if you bracket (especially a 5 or 7 shot burst with 1 stop between each exposure) that one of your exposures would basically end up with what you'd get by going ETTR on a single shot (i.e. it'd be the one where your desired brightest detail was just below clipping).

However, if bracketing works for you now (i.e. you don't get issues with motion between the images and you're happy to spend the time blending the images) then you'll always get better results, as you'll likely have an image with blown highlights (which are discarded for the highlights in a darker frame) but your mid and shadow detail is then coming from that brighter exposure - thus having better signal to noise ratio, and thus having much more quality.


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dolina
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Apr 21, 2015 12:57 |  #1160

For those who reserved what will you be using the 5DS or 5DS R for? Wildlife? Birds? Landscape? Studio?


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jonneymendoza
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Apr 21, 2015 13:29 |  #1161

dolina wrote in post #17526557external link
For those who reserved what will you be using the 5DS or 5DS R for? Wildlife? Birds? Landscape? Studio?

id pre pre order it if it had the DR that matches a d810/a7r


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wallstreetoneil
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Apr 21, 2015 13:43 |  #1162

dolina wrote in post #17526557external link
For those who reserved what will you be using the 5DS or 5DS R for? Wildlife? Birds? Landscape? Studio?

I have pre-ordered a 5DS R

I am going to try it for none of your options exactly but for on-site bridal and groom portraits where time permits for proper lighting.

Before I pay for it, I am going to bring to the store a few fabrics that I believe might cause aliasing and then take some pictures (no flash, on and off camera flash) and test it out. I have a good relationship with my store and they have assured me that I can test it all day long in the store - in fact they told me they would offer up some help because they want to know themselves and I will be getting the first R in their store - every other pre-order, at the time of my order, was for the non R version.


Hockey and wedding photographer. Favourite camera / lens combos: a 1DX II with a Tamron 45 1.8 VC, an A7Rii with a Canon 24-70F2.8L II, and a 5DSR with a Tamron 85 1.8 VC. Every lens I own I strongly recommend [Canon (35Lii, 100L Macro, 24-70F2.8ii, 70-200F2.8ii, 100-400Lii), Tamron (45 1.8, 85 1.8), Sigma 24-105]. If there are better lenses out there let me know because I haven't found them.

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Left ­ Handed ­ Brisket
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Post has been edited over 2 years ago by Left Handed Brisket.
Apr 21, 2015 14:18 |  #1163

jonneymendoza wrote in post #17526622external link
id pre pre order it if it had the DR that matches a d810/a7r

interesting. i've never heard of d810 or a7r. Maybe we could strike up a conversation about it in this thread?


PSA: The above post may contain sarcasm, reply at your own risk | Formerly he's gone before apostrophe-gate | Not in gear database: Canon 70-210 3.5-4.5, Auto Sears 50mm 2.0 / 3x CL-360, Nikon SB-28, SunPak auto 322 D, Minolta 20

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smythie
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Apr 21, 2015 15:30 |  #1164

The sarcasm is strong in this one :lol:


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jonneymendoza
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Apr 21, 2015 15:31 |  #1165

Left Handed Brisket wrote in post #17526677external link
interesting. i've never heard of d810 or a7r. Maybe we could strike up a conversation about it in this thread?

Use your right hand..


Canon 5dmkIII | Canon 85L 1.2 | Sigma 35mm ART 1.4|Canon 16-35mm L 2.8 |Canon 24-70mm L f2.8 | Canon 70-200mm F2.8L MK2 | Canon 430EX MK2 Flickrexternal link

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dolina
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Apr 21, 2015 15:54 |  #1166

wallstreetoneil wrote in post #17526634external link
I have pre-ordered a 5DS R

I am going to try it for none of your options exactly but for on-site bridal and groom portraits where time permits for proper lighting.

Before I pay for it, I am going to bring to the store a few fabrics that I believe might cause aliasing and then take some pictures (no flash, on and off camera flash) and test it out. I have a good relationship with my store and they have assured me that I can test it all day long in the store - in fact they told me they would offer up some help because they want to know themselves and I will be getting the first R in their store - every other pre-order, at the time of my order, was for the non R version.

Does your clientele require 50MP stills or large format prints?


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wallstreetoneil
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Apr 21, 2015 16:20 as a reply to dolina's post |  #1167

no - it is for my own curiosity to see if I can tell the difference

i have a suspicion that while my 5D3s have been great cameras, what I think is coming next for me is a move away from all-round good cameras (5D3s / 4s when they arrive) to a more bar-belled approach - a 50mega pixel great low ISO camera and a 12-16 mega pixel great high ISO camera

when i heard the rumour about the 5Dc (cinema) type camera that will have less megapixels (16-18) on full frame, this is where I want to go as I have almost bought an A7S a number of times but it isn't sharp enough when cropped - i want 1Dx type ISO in a smaller body with quieter shutter and great high ISO - and I want a megapixel monster

that is what I think


Hockey and wedding photographer. Favourite camera / lens combos: a 1DX II with a Tamron 45 1.8 VC, an A7Rii with a Canon 24-70F2.8L II, and a 5DSR with a Tamron 85 1.8 VC. Every lens I own I strongly recommend [Canon (35Lii, 100L Macro, 24-70F2.8ii, 70-200F2.8ii, 100-400Lii), Tamron (45 1.8, 85 1.8), Sigma 24-105]. If there are better lenses out there let me know because I haven't found them.

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jonneymendoza
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Apr 21, 2015 17:18 |  #1168

wallstreetoneil wrote in post #17526821external link
no - it is for my own curiosity to see if I can tell the difference

i have a suspicion that while my 5D3s have been great cameras, what I think is coming next for me is a move away from all-round good cameras (5D3s / 4s when they arrive) to a more bar-belled approach - a 50mega pixel great low ISO camera and a 12-16 mega pixel great high ISO camera

when i heard the rumour about the 5Dc (cinema) type camera that will have less megapixels (16-18) on full frame, this is where I want to go as I have almost bought an A7S a number of times but it isn't sharp enough when cropped - i want 1Dx type ISO in a smaller body with quieter shutter and great high ISO - and I want a megapixel monster

that is what I think

im with u all the way except for the fact that this camera needs that DR to make use of such high mega pixels.

Canon need this to have amazing DR else this camera will only be geared towards studio work where they dont need much DR.

This is what canon need.

a camera that does landscape/fashion shoot = high MP high DR

A rounder that does a bit of both = 5d3

A low light fast AF in the dark action camera = a 1dx with 16mp and HIGH ISO performance that is the same as an A7S plus AF at -3 ev!!

FFS CANON DO IT ALREADY!!! JESUS


Canon 5dmkIII | Canon 85L 1.2 | Sigma 35mm ART 1.4|Canon 16-35mm L 2.8 |Canon 24-70mm L f2.8 | Canon 70-200mm F2.8L MK2 | Canon 430EX MK2 Flickrexternal link

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Xyclopx
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Joined Jul 2008
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Apr 21, 2015 18:15 |  #1169

jonneymendoza wrote in post #17526902external link
im with u all the way except for the fact that this camera needs that DR to make use of such high mega pixels.

Canon need this to have amazing DR else this camera will only be geared towards studio work where they dont need much DR.

This is what canon need.

a camera that does landscape/fashion shoot = high MP high DR

A rounder that does a bit of both = 5d3

A low light fast AF in the dark action camera = a 1dx with 16mp and HIGH ISO performance that is the same as an A7S plus AF at -3 ev!!

FFS CANON DO IT ALREADY!!! JESUS

You made of money man? Ha ha 3 high-end cameras would be after winning the lottery for me.


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Gaarryy
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Apr 21, 2015 23:20 |  #1170

jonneymendoza wrote in post #17526622external link
id pre pre order it if it had the DR that matches a d810/a7r

How does that have anything to do with the question that was asked?


---------------Camera, Lens, Flash stuff.. but still wanting more

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