Canon Digital Photography Forums  

Go Back   Canon Digital Photography Forums > 'Equipment Talk' section > Canon EOS Digital Cameras
Register Rules FAQ Members List Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read



Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 22nd of July 2006 (Sat)   #1
ScruffyJohn
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Longmont, Colorado
Posts: 287
Default new camera body or an L lens

ok, I think I'm ready to make a purchase, but not sure if it should be a new camera body or an L lens.

my subjects are 90% landscape (when I hike & snowshoe) (in between my hospital recovery times from those activities )
to give some ideas of where I'm at
http://www.flickr.com/photos/scruffyjohn/

1- things are not as crisp as I'd like... even when I use a tripod and a trip cable.... so I wonder if the lack of a mirror lockup comes into play here...
2- would (occasionally) like to blow up pictures to 20x30 for framing
3- I like the 10-22m lens I have, but #1 comes into play
4- the 28-135 is a nice range... too bad they don't have 28-200... would be a perfect walk around lens and hiking lens (in addition to the WA lens)
5- rarely get to see wild life... so that is not a priority.... I think I make too much noise breathing heavy
6- from what I read, there seems to be a significant difference between the 300D (which is what I have) & 350D

comments anyone?
__________________
John

Canon 30D/300D
24-105L, 10-22, 100mm macro
Kit lens (18-55), 28-135, 100-300
ScruffyJohn is offline   Reply With Quote
This ad block will go away when you log in as member
Old 22nd of July 2006 (Sat)   #2
crn3371
Cream of the Crop
 
crn3371's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: SoCal, USA
Posts: 7,198
Default Re: new camera body or an L lens

Well, mirror lock-up can be accomplished via one of the hacks. Is there a difference between your drebel and the XT? Definately. Is there enough that it will change the results using your current lenses? Probably not. Your 100 macro, and 10-22 are excellant lenses, the others are average. If the shots with the 10-22 are currently disappointing, then they probably would be on a newer body. It may have more to do with post processing, rather than equipment. Are you basing your comments on shots straight out of the camera, or after you've tweaked them in post-processing?
crn3371 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22nd of July 2006 (Sat)   #3
ScruffyJohn
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Longmont, Colorado
Posts: 287
Default Re: new camera body or an L lens

Quote:
Originally Posted by crn3371
Well, mirror lock-up can be accomplished via one of the hacks. Is there a difference between your drebel and the XT? Definately. Is there enough that it will change the results using your current lenses? Probably not. Your 100 macro, and 10-22 are excellant lenses, the others are average. If the shots with the 10-22 are currently disappointing, then they probably would be on a newer body. It may have more to do with post processing, rather than equipment. Are you basing your comments on shots straight out of the camera, or after you've tweaked them in post-processing?
hmm, one of the hacks... I had read about at least one of the hacks, but it didn't mention a mirror lock up... will look into that.
As far as what I'm basing my opinion on, both before & after post-processing... granted I'm no wiz at that area. So maybe you're impling I ought to stick with the 300D, add the hack, look for a different "walk-around" lens than the 28-135 IS lens....
__________________
John

Canon 30D/300D
24-105L, 10-22, 100mm macro
Kit lens (18-55), 28-135, 100-300
ScruffyJohn is offline   Reply With Quote
This ad block will go away when you log in as member
Old 22nd of July 2006 (Sat)   #4
Jamie Holladay
Moderator
 
Jamie Holladay's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Gadsden, Alabama, USA
Posts: 21,557
Default Re: new camera body or an L lens

May look at the 17-40L or the 24-70L.
__________________
The Site The Gallery The Gear

"If you really want something done, ask a busy person." Toms wife
Nothing is more Exhilarating than combining my two passions, the speed of a shutter, the speed of a car; What a Rush! ~ me

What stands between you and greatness sits between your ears, not in your camera bag. ~ John Thawley

You know I can't spell just sound it out. ~ me
Jamie Holladay is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22nd of July 2006 (Sat)   #5
aparmley
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Near St. Louis
Posts: 508
Default Re: new camera body or an L lens

Quote:
Originally Posted by ScruffyJohn
ok, I think I'm ready to make a purchase, but not sure if it should be a new camera body or an L lens.

my subjects are 90% landscape (when I hike & snowshoe) (in between my hospital recovery times from those activities )
to give some ideas of where I'm at
http://www.flickr.com/photos/scruffyjohn/

1- things are not as crisp as I'd like... even when I use a tripod and a trip cable.... so I wonder if the lack of a mirror lockup comes into play here...
2- would (occasionally) like to blow up pictures to 20x30 for framing
3- I like the 10-22m lens I have, but #1 comes into play
4- the 28-135 is a nice range... too bad they don't have 28-200... would be a perfect walk around lens and hiking lens (in addition to the WA lens)
5- rarely get to see wild life... so that is not a priority.... I think I make too much noise breathing heavy
6- from what I read, there seems to be a significant difference between the 300D (which is what I have) & 350D

comments anyone?
John -

This might be against the grain but I think you should drop the money on the new lens right now. Why? The XTs replacement should be named sometime in the near future - most are thinking at fotinka, but now, I'm thinking we are going to hear something shortly after Nikon makes thier new DSLR annoucement in 18 days [Aug 8th]. If you were to get the XT and then the XTs replacement is named - it might really appeal to you. If you buy the L lens now and the replacement comes out and you like it, there will be less hesitation in purchasing it since you hadn't just bought the XT and you also have a nice new L lens to mount on the new camera, where as if you went XT then bit the bullet and bought the XTs replacement, you'd be with out an L lens. . .. just thinking out loud here. . .
__________________
Switched to Nikon . . . Thanks to all of you that made my sale a success! Enjoy your new gear!
aparmley is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22nd of July 2006 (Sat)   #6
steved110
Cream of the Crop
 
steved110's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: East Sussex UK
Posts: 5,765
Default Re: new camera body or an L lens

I think it's time to upgrade your camera - you already have a great landscape lens in your sig, and ifg you want to make big prints then you need the extra megapixels.
Sure there may be a new XT coming out - though I think it's a little too soon - the XT is still selling like crazy -but if you are always waiting for a new model you'll never get one....
__________________
Canon 6D
Canon EF 50mm f/1.4 , Canon EF 85mm f/1.8 Canon EF 100mm f/2.8 macro
CanonEF 17-40 f/4 L Canon EF 24-70 f/4 IS L and 70-200 f/4 L
Speedlite 580EX and some bags'n pods'n stuff
steved110 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22nd of July 2006 (Sat)   #7
ScottE
Goldmember
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Kelowna, Canada
Posts: 3,179
Default Re: new camera body or an L lens

Quote:
Originally Posted by 24zero
May look at the 17-40L or the 24-70L.
I have both the 17-40/4L and the 17-55/2.8 IS EF-S and would not recommend the 17-40 unless you have a film or full frame digital camera. The 17-55 is a better and more useful lens.

I generally recommend investing in better lenses before better cameras. The lens is a long term investment and will continue in use long after the camera has been replaced by a more recent model. Digital camera technology continues to advance while lens technology is pretty well developed.

Lens choice depends on your main use the lens.

The 17-55/2.8 is a super sharp walk around lens that covers the range from wide angle to short telephoto. If you do your part, image quality will easily support a 20x30 enlargement.

If you want a two lens kit to carry around with your 10-22 that will produce images that lood good for your 20-30 inch prints, consider either the 24-70/2.8 or the 24-105/4 IS. These provide a range from about normal to medium telephoto on your camera. The choice is between a larger aperture for low light and limited depth of field photos vs. a longer telephoto range and image stabilization. If you decide to compromise quality a bit for price, you could also consider the 28-135 IS for this purpose.
ScottE is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23rd of July 2006 (Sun)   #8
Doctor Diesel
Member
 
Doctor Diesel's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: West of Scotland
Posts: 394
Default Re: new camera body or an L lens

just my $0.02 ......I got a mint used 16-35 L 2.8 for around the same price as a 17-40, I think it is a better landscape lens on a crop sensor body and bloody sharp too!
__________________
40 yrs in photography and still learning from all you good people...Thanks

GEAR:-IXUS-60,Pana FT-1, Eos 7D, 50 f1.4, BG-E7, 24-70 L & 70-200 L , Gitzo Traveller, shedload of other bits/pieces & ORANGE Peli Cases
Doctor Diesel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23rd of July 2006 (Sun)   #9
John_T
Goldmember
 
John_T's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Switzerland
Posts: 2,713
Default Re: new camera body or an L lens

If you aren't satisfied with the results you are get with all your lenses, I doubt MLU will be of any help. The common denominator for all the lenses is the camera and/or you . Either the camera doesn't have it in it or there is something not quite right with your technique. The better investment is a lens, but that is of no help if the camera isn't up to snuff.
__________________
Canon : 5DIII : 7D : 40 2.8 : 50 1.4 : 35L : 85L : 100L IS Macro : 135L : 16-35L II : 24-105L IS : 70-200L II : 100-400L IS : 1.4x & 2x TC III : 580EX : 430EX : G1XII : Markins Q10 & Q3T : Jobu Gimbal : Manfrotto Underware : etc...
John_T is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23rd of July 2006 (Sun)   #10
ghocking
Member
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Barrow-in-Furness England
Posts: 965
Default Re: new camera body or an L lens

If you still want to use the 10-22, then I would go for the 30D over the 350D. But if you want to go all the way, sell everything bar the 100 macro and go for a 5D and 17-40 L.
__________________
Geoff Hocking
G9|20D|40D|50D|5D|7D|1DMkIIN
60 Macro|50 1.4|100 Macro|17-40 L|24-105 L|100-400 L|Sigma 18-200 OS
270EX|430EXII|580EX
ghocking is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23rd of July 2006 (Sun)   #11
digitalmono
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Bluetooth and Wi-Fi Islands,Japan
Posts: 59
Default Re: new camera body or an L lens

Another vote for "buy an L lens.
__________________
20D - 1DMkII - 17/40L - 70/200 2.8 L IS - 85 1.2 L - 50 1.8 II - 300 2.8 L - 550EX - 220EX - Omnibounce - EPSON P2000

Last edited by digitalmono : 23rd of July 2006 (Sun) at 18:02.
digitalmono is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23rd of July 2006 (Sun)   #12
ScruffyJohn
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Longmont, Colorado
Posts: 287
Default Re: new camera body or an L lens

thanks everyone, now I'm REALLY confused
Since the issue could be the camera, lens or me (I'm guessing a good share could be me)
I'm not betting it's the 10-22mm lens... I bought the 28-135mm knowing it was not an L lens, so I know I need a different "walk-around" lens (eventually). So now the question is, is it me soo much that even a 5D wouldn't help.... guess It's back to experimenting... shooting a coke can/flowers in the back yard and see if it is me or something else... I'll post up here the images, maybe collective can analize... (with and with MLC)
__________________
John

Canon 30D/300D
24-105L, 10-22, 100mm macro
Kit lens (18-55), 28-135, 100-300
ScruffyJohn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23rd of July 2006 (Sun)   #13
ScruffyJohn
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Longmont, Colorado
Posts: 287
Default Re: new camera body or an L lens

ok, here is one test run

these were take with the 10-22mm (f16, ISO100)... untouched except to crop down to what I was focusing on
One was with Mirror Lock Up and one was without... with tripod & cable release
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 2992NoMLC10-22.jpg (92.6 KB, 199 views)
File Type: jpg 2993MLC10-22.jpg (94.9 KB, 198 views)
__________________
John

Canon 30D/300D
24-105L, 10-22, 100mm macro
Kit lens (18-55), 28-135, 100-300

Last edited by ScruffyJohn : 23rd of July 2006 (Sun) at 12:28.
ScruffyJohn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23rd of July 2006 (Sun)   #14
ScruffyJohn
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Longmont, Colorado
Posts: 287
Default Re: new camera body or an L lens

ok, here is another test run

these were take with the 28-135mm IS (f16, ISO100)... untouched except to crop down to what I was focusing on
One was with Mirror Lock Up and one was without... with tripod & cable release
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 2994MLC135.jpg (88.2 KB, 195 views)
File Type: jpg 2995NoMLC135.jpg (86.3 KB, 194 views)
__________________
John

Canon 30D/300D
24-105L, 10-22, 100mm macro
Kit lens (18-55), 28-135, 100-300
ScruffyJohn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23rd of July 2006 (Sun)   #15
John_T
Goldmember
 
John_T's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Switzerland
Posts: 2,713
Default Re: new camera body or an L lens

I can't say I see any distinct differences and all look equally soft. You don't say at which focal length you made the shots, nor at what shutter speed.

Zooms typically have a focal range that is sharp and some softness at one length or another, typically at the longest focal length.

It easy to drive yourself nuts with this stuff and it's really not necessary. Set yourself up with some constants and run a process of elimination. Mount your camera on a tripod and using a cable release and MLU if you like.:

- Use the same target for all shots, preferrably something with contrast and sharp edges. Some use a brick wall, others a newspaper or magazine hanging on a parallel plane to the camera's sensor.

- According to light, set one ISO, f stop and shutter speed for all shots, and the middle focal length for each zoom.

- Leave the camera and settings constant and just change the lenses.

- Make one shot AF and the next manual focus.

If you get a constant of softness with all lenses, it is probably the camera.

If you get varying sharpness from lens to lens and that degree of sharpness is constant on every shot, well, you know what you have got.

I personally would move to the 30D, just to get right up to date. The 300 is an acceptable camera, but already a dinosaur in my book. A 5D would be an overkill, and full frame changes the game. I would wait on L glass until I really got it down with the equipment I had. I don't think L glass would give you as much a leap forward as would the 30D.

If you want to get a really sharp and useful lens, get the 50mm f/1.4 prime. It's the one you are missing.
__________________
Canon : 5DIII : 7D : 40 2.8 : 50 1.4 : 35L : 85L : 100L IS Macro : 135L : 16-35L II : 24-105L IS : 70-200L II : 100-400L IS : 1.4x & 2x TC III : 580EX : 430EX : G1XII : Markins Q10 & Q3T : Jobu Gimbal : Manfrotto Underware : etc...

Last edited by John_T : 23rd of July 2006 (Sun) at 14:03.
John_T is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Most overrated camera body/lens? august23 Canon EF and EF-S Lenses 195 18th of May 2007 (Fri) 08:03
24 - 70 on main body + 2nd body with what lens? clengster_77 Weddings and Other Family Events 17 18th of February 2007 (Sun) 22:30
350d body and kit lens, or just the body? What's best? elise1030 Canon EF and EF-S Lenses 10 16th of September 2006 (Sat) 08:47
20D with kit lens + 5D camera body to be sold for a Mark 1Ds II? kriskent Canon EOS Digital Cameras 9 1st of May 2006 (Mon) 12:08
Factoring accessories and camera body for next lens purchase, logic check pls toddb Canon EF and EF-S Lenses 5 29th of December 2005 (Thu) 05:32


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:05.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.12
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
This forum is not affiliated with Canon in any way and is run as a free user helpsite by Pekka Saarinen, Helsinki Finland. You will need to register in order to be able to post messages. Cookies are required for registering and posting. HTML in messages is not allowed, plain website addresses are automatically made active by the board.