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Thread started 25 Oct 2010 (Monday) 04:57
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The OLDER Photographers' thread...

 
Jill-of-all-Trades
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May 20, 2015 18:34 |  #9346

I am not old enough to have experienced that situation, but I have been in an opposite situation. At my last job, when the manager was not present, I was supposed to have final say on anything mechanical (I'm an auto mechanic). The service advisor, a guy in his early 50's, was not supposed to ever diagnose anything. But he did. Constantly. No way, no how would he ever accept the fact that I was in a superior position to him. It caused a lot of problems. I was trying to keep customers alive, keep us out of the court system, and keep a good reputation. He just wanted to do things his way. I constantly was going to management with complaints, they were constantly telling him how things were, but he thought he was smarter than all of us. Eventually it was a major nail in his coffin.


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HoosierJoe
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May 20, 2015 19:25 as a reply to post 17564647 |  #9347

Nepotism.



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HoosierJoe
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May 20, 2015 19:31 |  #9348

In the transportation industry this is the fate of the older worker. I am fortunate to have any job at all in that industry, should have switched tracks when I got bought out at 45 with another company. Since then I have been three other places and the management above me gets younger and younger. In a way, I don't mind being a bit of a peon but the treatment of the older worker is often blatantly discriminatory. So I smile and carry on. I have a few more years of this before I go on to other things in life.



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Jill-of-all-Trades
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May 20, 2015 19:39 |  #9349

I see it all the time. Some young guys are great at the job and are respectful, others just have a sense of entitlement. I believe that people should earn their positions.


Melody

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tonylong
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May 20, 2015 22:00 |  #9350

I guess I'm lucky, I've had decent experience with my bosses...

I did have an experience regarding a co-worker, a member of my team -- he did some stuff that messed with work I was doing (he had an attitude toward me) and since he worked on a later shift I was treading water until he showed up and admitted (with a smile) his misdeeds...

A day or two later I had a one-on-one with our boss, and he asked my about my relationship with my misbehaving co-worker...

My response was "I just need to decide whether to use a .45 or a .38 on him!"

We both got q chuckle out of that!:)


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yogestee
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May 20, 2015 22:28 |  #9351

HoosierJoe wrote in post #17564694external link
Nepotism.

Ugly word.


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neilwood32
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May 21, 2015 07:59 |  #9352

tonylong wrote in post #17564830external link
I guess I'm lucky, I've had decent experience with my bosses...

I did have an experience regarding a co-worker, a member of my team -- he did some stuff that messed with work I was doing (he had an attitude toward me) and since he worked on a later shift I was treading water until he showed up and admitted (with a smile) his misdeeds...

A day or two later I had a one-on-one with our boss, and he asked my about my relationship with my misbehaving co-worker...

My response was "I just need to decide whether to use a .45 or a .38 on him!"

We both got q chuckle out of that!:)

Oh if only that was allowed!:lol:


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bubbygator
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May 21, 2015 09:40 |  #9353

I was a boss most of my corporate life. Had a M.S. Engr., started in R&D, and moved through most areas of production and marketing. When I first became a manager, an elderly VP called me into his office - he told me that despite any of my qualifications, if I didn't get out and talk to the workers on the floor, I wouldn't be a success.

That hit home - because I was kinda scared to do that. But, I followed his advice and eventually found out what he was talking about. My last 5 years at work, I headed "problem solving" task forces that went to where any persistent problem was and got it solved. I did this mostly by talking with the workers - almost 90% of the time they knew what was wrong or what was needed, but their supervisors weren't communicating with them!

One instance was so simple - a case of continuing contamination. A worker had told his foreman that he thought the barrel was contaminated, but the foreman told him to use it anyway. Once I confirmed it, that foreman was fired!

Along with a lot of companies, we went through some hard times during the early Japanese pressure about "quality control", but the solution there also was getting every worker involved, not just some new corporate "policies".

Anyhow, that was long ago - - thanks for bringing back the memory.


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tonylong
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May 21, 2015 16:17 |  #9354

My software engineering group had a wild time back in the '90s. Our computer/network system was the Unix operating system, it was while Windows was "growing" both as an interface for programming/engineerin​g and especially since it didn't yet have networking/internet built in, but we were quite happy with our Unix system, it was great for all that stuff, the only thing we used the desktop machines for was some individual MS-DOS operations, I did some C-language programming for them...a funny thing was whenever one of those machines had problems, my group would get "the call" from the factory floor...well, our "magical fix" was the good old "Ctl-Alt-Delete" key combo and things would get up and running! We had quite a reputation amongst the workers on the factory floor!

Anyway, we were doing fine with things, although our manager had been interacting with someone who had been writing some Windows programs using this new Widows programming software Visual Basic. I had actually developed a Windows version of one of out test program (using the more low-level C++ programming language) and was putting the finishing touches on it with the idea of it maybe making it out onto the factory floor, but it was more of a test project...

Well, life went on until one day our manager sat down with our group and announced that from then on, Windows was to become our system and programming platform using this Visual Basic programming platform/language...

Well, you would get a laugh out of the looks on all of our faces with this news, and hearing the comments afterward!

So sometimes these bosses can toss "curve balls". But, it did happen, we all adopted Windows and the Visual Basic programming, and especially once Windows "adopted" the Internet, well, our whole factory setup changed pretty noticeably!


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HoosierJoe
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May 21, 2015 22:47 |  #9355

The strange thing about the young boss is that over all he isnt a bad guy.



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Ephur
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Joined Sep 2010
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May 22, 2015 13:45 |  #9356

HoosierJoe wrote in post #17566264external link
The strange thing about the young boss is that over all he isnt a bad guy.

So about.... 13 years ago now, I was working for a technology company as a system administrator (was all Unix/Solaris systems). I had spent my youth using computers, BBS's, early days of the Internet (first exposure to the Internet was Archie and Telnet) just as the web was being invented. Never went to college, but had some really good mentors in my first two jobs that taught me a lot not about the technology (because I was teaching them), but about how to apply it, and how to think about the technology/people relationship.


Well one day our boss was let go for poor performance. He was a really smart guy, nice, but.... he would fall asleep in his office (we did work a 4pm to 1am shift) among other things. Well I was asked to fill in his duties while they found his replacement. This place was pretty picky about who they hired (and what they paid...) so four months later, they gave up the search and asked me to take the role. I was pretty young at the time, 22 or so... a lot of people on the team were much older, and more experienced.

I always believed in servant leadership, and used a lot of what I was learning as a young parent, and applying it to my work. I studied and learned from people on the financial stuff that was my responsibility. I looked for strong mentors, and people who could help me grow as a manager. All the while, I ensured I helped my team grow as technical assets to the company. I was excited as I was able to get many of them hired into better roles at the company, always keeping my team growing so our newer hires could easily fill the vacancies left. This continued on for about three years, during which time I became the Senior Manager responsible for Operations and Engineering on systems that generated about 30% of our companies annual revenue and over 50% of our annual profit. My teams Gallup Q12 (employee satisfaction) scores were way above industry average, and highest in our company. Average tenure of employees on my team... seven years. People who had been with the company wanted to be on my team.

During that time I had a whole slew of things I could put down to make my resume sound great, but the thing I was most proud of. One of our engineers, we'll just call him A. He was in his late 40's, pretty old by this companies standard. Graduated top of his class at CalTech. Knew the systems of our department and others inside and out. Others _HATED_ working with him. Worked with him, learned some stuff from him, and was able to teach him quite a few things, and get the message through in a way that resonated with him. Over the course of about a year, he changed so much in how he approached problems, saw that there were better ways to share his message. Became someone that people no longer hated, but actually wanted to include in their projects.

I'm totally patting myself on the back, sorry for that, all this to say, a young manager, even one without experience, is not always bad.


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HoosierJoe
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May 29, 2015 20:10 as a reply to Ephur's post |  #9357

Like I said. He isn't a bad guy. But he really doesn't know much about managing. Either the business or the employees. He and the guy above him are both under 30 and they keep bringing in under 30 white males for all promotions and new positions as the department grows. A minority doesn't have any chance to move from the position they were hired into. It's sad, some people have tried to point out to them that this is a poor precedent they are setting, but they act truly puzzled and perplexed. They simply can't see what they are doing. Too bad there is no one watching out for these guys.



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Jill-of-all-Trades
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May 29, 2015 21:00 |  #9358

I don't suppose they advertise themselves as equal opportunity employers?


Melody

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Ephur
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Joined Sep 2010
San Antonio, TX
May 29, 2015 21:20 |  #9359

HoosierJoe wrote in post #17576478external link
Like I said. He isn't a bad guy. But he really doesn't know much about managing. Either the business or the employees. He and the guy above him are both under 30 and they keep bringing in under 30 white males for all promotions and new positions as the department grows. A minority doesn't have any chance to move from the position they were hired into. It's sad, some people have tried to point out to them that this is a poor precedent they are setting, but they act truly puzzled and perplexed. They simply can't see what they are doing. Too bad there is no one watching out for these guys.

So, it's hard to tell if this is willful discrimination, or just 'The Rule of Ten' in action. I don't think that's the proper name for it, and I tried to find the source, but I no longer recall where I first read this. It's something that I always keep in the back of my mind though. It goes a little something like this.

The first couple of managers that you have at your company may be 10's (on a 1 to 10 scale). Absolute rock stars. Initially as growth is organic, and they take their time, they continue to hire people, and talent, that they recognize as being a ten. Growth explodes. These people are forced to make rapid hiring decisions. And they hire a bunch of eights. These 10s are promoted up, and are now leading the company, in the CxO roles. The eights are now making the hiring decisions. These guys, really don't recognize what talent beyond an eight looks like. And worse yet, some of them are afraid of people that are even better than them. So growth continues, and they hire 6's and 7's. Time goes on, the 8's are promoted, managing new organizations, new projects, whatever, and then the 6's and 7's are building out the teams, they're the line managers. This pattern continues, until you've got mediocre talent throughout the organization. It recognizes other people, with similar traits, and qualities as the best people to hire, but these rock stars of the 6 and 7 group, still fall short of where the organization started.

I thought of this when you said they don't seem to get it. To me it seems like you've got some 4's and 5's, hiring other 4's and 5's, and while you and others on the team may be 8's 9's or 10's, these new managers don't recognize it. They don't know how to deal with it. Or perhaps they are threatened by it.

Just some food for thought.


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HoosierJoe
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May 31, 2015 19:08 as a reply to Ephur's post |  #9360

Fascinating food for thought.

You might be on to something there. I am quite interested!



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