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FORUMS Photography Talk by Genre Sports Talk
Thread started 22 Apr 2015 (Wednesday) 19:59
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RAW v JPG

 
Luckless
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PEI, Canada
Jun 05, 2015 15:37 |  #16

Not a professional, but I generally shoot only to raw files, and mostly that is for white balance reasons. Far too often I'm working under really poor lights which can colour cycle a lot, and only stabilize in colour around 1/30th of a second shutter times, and while I would like to be able to set things up ahead of time and just shoot straight to jpg to reduce transfer and load times a little, I've found it just isn't practical in most cases.

I usually settle for a white balance that comes out 'as is', but every now and then the combinations of the lights produces a colour just so bad that I have to go in and adjust things manually to get a decent image.

Plus, you can always toss extra data away after the fact, but you can't regenerate it once you get rid of it.


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LincsRP
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Joined Mar 2007
Lincolnshire,UK
Jun 05, 2015 16:23 |  #17

I shoot about 100,000 images per year now for sport. dance and weddings.

I'm not a pro - I don't make a living from this as it's just a (paying) hobby. However, I shoot 99% jpegs. Simply because if you shoot so many images I've gained the experience of what works and what doesn't. 700 images from any night this week gets about 10 mins of my time for selection and posted to wherever they need to be. 200 out of 700 generally either goes up on my website or are exported to a client server for them. I shoot M2 on 1-series for sport and L for large for dance and weddings.

I use the camera manufacturers defaults and tweak them as needed. A jpeg tweaked just doesn't look bad nowadays for sport.

Some many years ago I made friends with a lighting technician from a TV company and he told me 'get the white balance right from the first click and the jobs done' and in this regard I have purchased a colour meter and even in an arena I can now get a basic setting from the meter which I set my camera to and my images come out reasonably clean.


Steve
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pat.kane
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Jun 05, 2015 18:15 |  #18

LincsRP wrote in post #17585652external link
I have purchased a colour meter and even in an arena I can now get a basic setting from the meter which I set my camera to and my images come out reasonably clean.

What meter did you get? Everything I've seen on the market is quite expensive.


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LincsRP
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Joined Mar 2007
Lincolnshire,UK
Jun 06, 2015 04:22 |  #19

pat.kane wrote in post #17585781external link
What meter did you get? Everything I've seen on the market is quite expensive.

I bought the Sekonic c700r. Yes it's expensive compared to say an ordinary light meter (which it isn't, of course) but it reads flourescents accurately unlike some others and hence any other light source is quite easy compared.

It's 1400GBP here in the UK but, there's some meters going way over 2000GBP I've found ... gulp!

It's about the size of an extra large smart phone running on 2 AA batteries with a touch screen.


Steve
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pat.kane
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Jun 06, 2015 13:43 as a reply to LincsRP's post |  #20

Thanks. I was hoping you had found a less expensive solution. I've heard good things about the Kenko KCM-3100 which costs around $800. I'm not ready to spend that much as it doesn't fix the larger issue I deal with, which is cycling lights. I'd rather spend the money on a 7D Mk II, but for now, I either avoid the worst gyms or resort to strobes.


1Dx, 5D3 and some L glass (gear list / feedback)
http://MaxPreps.DMVpix​.com (external link)
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LincsRP
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Joined Mar 2007
Lincolnshire,UK
Jun 06, 2015 14:49 |  #21

pat.kane wrote in post #17586528external link
Thanks. I was hoping you had found a less expensive solution. I've heard good things about the Kenko KCM-3100 which costs around $800. I'm not ready to spend that much as it doesn't fix the larger issue I deal with, which is cycling lights. I'd rather spend the money on a 7D Mk II, but for now, I either avoid the worst gyms or resort to strobes.


The c700r has a screen that give colour correction and if you follow the setting it corrects the cycling lights providing your shutter speed in longer than the total cycle - here in the UK we're on 50 cycles so a shutter speed of 1/40th sec covers the whole sequence. No good for sport, granted but ok for when I do dance studio portraits and poses.

For instance an old flourescent is about 3050k and the BA colour correction is 5, so setting the colour correction in camera to 5 mired towards the blue and it then shows GM 2.5 so you move the colour correction downwards towards magenta. Set the camera to to 3050 kelvin and all the images come out clean.

Go to a new flourescent and alter the kelvin to 3500k and lave the colour correction as it is because that's how flourescents work the amount of colour correction doesn't seem to change with age.

It's an interesting and informative tool and whilst it's expensive it won't be worthless when I get a new camera or lens. It works with any camera and even some of the compacts have colour correction available by numbers.

I'm not sure but is the 7D2 flicker control just about getting an exposure when the light flickers brightest - not sure if it has anything to do with colour correction. Correct me if I'm wrong... I don't tend to research stuff I don't use.


Steve
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pat.kane
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Jun 06, 2015 17:42 as a reply to LincsRP's post |  #22

Yes, you could say 7D2 tries to expose at the brightest point in the cycle for each image. Given this, color correction should be straight forward--apply same setting to all photos and you're done. I don't own the camera myself, but have been paying attention to it.

My challenge with the 1Dx and 1D IV is three shots in rapid succession have three different color casts and exposures. These are all at higher shutter speeds, e.g., 1/1000-sec, as I shoot sports. I'm sure the successor to the 1Dx will have the flicker detection capability, but it would likely be a long while before I could afford to upgrade. There are enough good gyms around I can wait for some of the teams to go on the road and/or I just strobe at the home court when allowed.


1Dx, 5D3 and some L glass (gear list / feedback)
http://MaxPreps.DMVpix​.com (external link)
http://www.DMVpix.com (external link)

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MacGrad
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Hamilton, ON
Jun 06, 2015 22:28 |  #23

pat.kane wrote in post #17586742external link
Yes, you could say 7D2 tries to expose at the brightest point in the cycle for each image. Given this, color correction should be straight forward.

I'm not well versed in the 7D2 technology, but I'm curious: if the camera tries to expose at the brightest cycle point, wouldn't this mean that the camera is adding (some) shutter lag in order to hit the peak brightness? Or does it have a range that it considers "peak light"?


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LincsRP
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Joined Mar 2007
Lincolnshire,UK
Jun 07, 2015 07:41 |  #24

I've studied the 7D2 instructions and contacted a friend who shoot commercially and uses a 7D2 for social work and he says the flicker detect is hardly more than a gimmic. There's more failures than sucesses apparently and he's no fool with technology.

This is probably why Canon hasn't updated the 1DX firmware with it. It's only software after all.


Steve
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pat.kane
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Jun 07, 2015 10:19 |  #25

The delay in shutter lag will not be noticeable. This was covered extensively in another forum
http://www.fredmiranda​.com/forum/topic/13302​58/0external link

The best demonstration of the anti-flicker capability I've seen is shown in this video
http://youtu.be/noo-2h-PG7k?t=4m35sexternal link

The link was provided in the following thread
http://www.fredmiranda​.com/forum/topic/13273​65/0external link

LincsRP, the general consensus I've seen in multiple threads on this topic is the technology is NOT a gimmic. It works, but as with most things that are new it has limitations (implementation and user). I'm optimistic as to where this technology is heading.


1Dx, 5D3 and some L glass (gear list / feedback)
http://MaxPreps.DMVpix​.com (external link)
http://www.DMVpix.com (external link)

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LincsRP
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Joined Mar 2007
Lincolnshire,UK
Jun 07, 2015 10:35 |  #26

Well, I asked an actual user and din't rely on Canon marketing or forums where quite frankly many are not users of the 7D2, like I am not. My comments were simply from an experienced user and that's his exact words.


Steve
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pat.kane
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Arlington, VA
Jun 07, 2015 10:55 as a reply to LincsRP's post |  #27

I have no doubt you posted what was relayed to you, but keep in mind it is one data point. I've been actively watching the reports on this camera's performance as it has the potential to be the better tool for sports in gyms with cycling lights when compared to my 1D X. I understand your point though and already discount comments from non-owners. From what I have read, I see many more positive than negative comments from 7D Mk II owners.


1Dx, 5D3 and some L glass (gear list / feedback)
http://MaxPreps.DMVpix​.com (external link)
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CyberDyneSystems
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Jun 07, 2015 11:33 |  #28

LincsRP wrote in post #17587373external link
Well, I asked an actual user and din't rely on Canon marketing or forums where quite frankly many are not users of the 7D2, like I am not. My comments were simply from an experienced user and that's his exact words.

There are a number of us posting on these forums that are actual users. Significantly more than there are Canon Marketing employees.

I work in a huge shop with metal halide/mercury vapor lighting. The results I have gotten are quite good.


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LincsRP
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Joined Mar 2007
Lincolnshire,UK
Jun 07, 2015 11:35 |  #29

I think some users are more cynical and look for a complete solution rather than an 'improvement' and my friend can be cynical sometimes. He did describe me once as 'having all the gear and no idea'. :)


Steve
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CyberDyneSystems
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Jun 07, 2015 11:44 |  #30

Well, I think if we got down to it, then your friend and I might actually agree in the long run, if we both were open to discussion.

ie: It works well, it is a significant improvement over no solution at all.
It is not perfect. But it is also the first iteration. It may get better.


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