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Thread started 02 Jan 2016 (Saturday) 13:36
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Boot Drive Size?

 
drisley
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Jan 02, 2016 13:36 |  #1

I just purchased a 2015 27" Retina iMac pretty much loaded, but got the super fast 500GB SSD drive because the 1TB is about $600 cdn more.

I got some xmas money so now I'm thinking of going for the 1TB drive, but thing is, I have to pack up the current iMac, send it back via UPS, wait for the refund from Apple, then re-order the new one and wait 2 weeks for delivery. Then there is the chance I could get a dud (maybe dead pixels or something else as it has happened to me before when I got 3 iMacs in 2012 that I had to return). Since I bought this before xmas I have until Jan 8 to return to Apple.

With OS installed out of 499 GB I have 464 GB free (with my music loaded in iTunes and some small apps).

I want to install PS, LR, Illustrator, Dreamweaver (CC 2015), possibly Office Suite, 3D rendering app, and usually have 1 game installed (20-50GB). I will keep all files for pics and video on an external drive. I would like to dual boot Windows, but apparently that can be done on an external Thunderbolt. Sadly a good Thunderbolt drive is about as much as the premium upgrade to a 1TB SSD internally.

Just trying to think "out loud" here to see what I come up with. I hate thinking about all the money I just spent on this computer to have to worry about managing disk space down the road.

My 10 yo Windows 7 PC has about 150 GB used on it's boot drive but I know programs are getting much bigger every year.


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CyberDyneSystems
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Post has been last edited over 1 year ago by CyberDyneSystems. 5 edits done in total.
Jan 02, 2016 13:58 |  #2

I'd spend the additional $600.00 on an external set up that would be just as fast. Using the "thunderbolt port" wouldn't you get more capacity, equal or greater speeds for less $?

My C: drive is only 256GB on both my "Monster workstation", and my laptop. It is plenty for my uses.


512 Thunderbolt external SSD for about $300.00
http://www.amazon.com ...rds=thunderbolt+dri​ve+ssd (external link)

And if you don't need all that SSD speed for data, it gets much more cost effective per GB.

If it was my data, I'd have it all on an external RAID 1 set up with appropriate back up solution as well.


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drisley
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Jan 02, 2016 16:55 as a reply to CyberDyneSystems's post |  #3

Thank you for your help. I know it won't be faster for sure (the internal SSD on the new iMacs bench at nearly 2000 MBYTES/S (yes BYTES) using the new NVMe interface.
But even 500 MB/s for an external is good.


All that would be about $550 cdn, the same as the extra 1TB for the internal.

Thank you CDS for your help! :)


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tim
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Jan 02, 2016 17:03 |  #4

Actually I prefer a small boot drive, 60GB is plenty, but you can't buy SSDs that small any more so I get 120GB. This is so operating system backup images are small. All data goes on another drive. I could partition it, but I haven't gotten to it yet.

You don't even need an external SSD, for image storage spinning disks are just as good - or at least they were when I last tried this experiment a few years ago. Try timing these operations with both your internal SSD and an external spinning disk:
- Rendering 500 RAW file previews for RAW images
- Doing some kind of interactive thing - for me it would be opening 100 images in Bridge ACR
- Batch exporting 500 RAW images. To be fair the export should in both cases be to a third drive, but if you can't do that export very very small jpegs (100 pixel across) to your SSD.

Interested to hear your results if you bother to do it. I think the SSD will be a little faster, but probably not fast enough to be worth the money for bulk storage.


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drisley
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Jan 02, 2016 21:44 as a reply to tim's post |  #5

Thank you as well Tim. What about install for programs and the like? That all fit on your boot drive?

My main thing is that with an iMac, I can't add on down the road. I think it's the dual boot with Windows that will take the most room, but I will put that on an external TB drive as from what i've been told you can boot to windows from the external TB.

Again, I appreciate the feedback. I sent 3 iMacs back for defects in 2012, now I have a good 2015 version (best computer I've owned) and to send it back and risk getting one with a defect is scary. Then again, I want to be happy with this machine for many years (It cost me $4k, so another $550 for a bigger SSD is small in the grand scheme of things, but the 2 weeks to custom order from Apple is a pain)


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tim
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Jan 02, 2016 23:15 |  #6

My Windows 10 install with Office, Photoshop/Bridge, some development tools, WAMP (development server of MySQL, Apache, etc), a bunch of random stuff like web browsers, email program, and swap file is 30GB. Can't help with mac stuff sorry.

I'd keep the one you have and just add the external drive. I really don't think you need another SSD, spinning disk is totally fine, your internal SSD is huge.

Why do you think you need another SSD? What would you put on it that requires and makes use of the low latency and high throughput? Remember in many cases you're processor, IO, or user limited.


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drisley
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Jan 02, 2016 23:40 as a reply to tim's post |  #7

Do you have Lightroom too?

I was thinking of dual boot of windows 10 and maybe 1 game at a time ... Mac side would have iTunes (library is about 10GB), Photoshop, Lightroom, Illustrator, After Effects, Premiere Pro (or Final Cut X, haven't decided yet), Dreamweaver CC, 3Ds Max.

Files such as my images and videos and downloads will go external.

Thanks for taking the time to help. This is putting my mind at ease.


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tim
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Jan 03, 2016 02:29 |  #8

Lightroom is just another application, maybe a GB. The catalog goes onto the data disk/partition. iTunes library is data, it goes on another partition. All that other stuff will take up space, might get you to 100GB if it's MASSIVE, probably more like 5GB each max. Programs aren't that big. Data's big.

Running a dual boot will take more space. I'd allow 16GB for Windows 10 (as per Microsoft recommendations) then space for your game and a swap file. 40GB would be very generous.


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Wilt
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Jan 04, 2016 09:04 |  #9

Correct me if I am wrong, Tim, but it would seem that if the goal is rapid bootup and software execution, with the primary purpose of speeding LR editing, that we should lay out our PCs to have the following:


  1. M.2 form factor SSD plugged into M.2 connector of PCI Express capable motherboard
  2. SATA HD plugged into SATA connector of motherboard
  3. OS and Lightroom s/w on #1
  4. Primary other applications s/w on #1, secondary other applications on #2
  5. RAW files on #2, Lightroom Catalog on #1
  6. Exported JPG on #2
  7. Pixel-capable postprocessing s/w on #1, editing JPGs stored on #2
  8. Photos for 'inactive' jobs archived to externally connected (USB 3.0) harddrive, or to internet connected NAS
  9. Data redundancy to externally connected (USB 3.0) RAID, or to internet connected NAS RAID
  10. Offsite data backup storage


Does that sound reasonable to you?

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InfiniteDivide
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Jan 04, 2016 11:27 |  #10

60 GB was too small for my needs as a boot drive.
I recently swapped mine for a 3rd party 240 Gb and it has over 100Gb free.

I also agree, spend that money on an external setup incase something goes wrong with your boot drive.


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tim
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Jan 04, 2016 13:10 |  #11

Wilt wrote in post #17843897 (external link)
Correct me if I am wrong, Tim, but it would seem that if the goal is rapid bootup and software execution, with the primary purpose of speeding LR editing, that we should lay out our PCs to have the following:


  1. M.2 form factor SSD plugged into M.2 connector of PCI Express capable motherboard
  2. SATA HD plugged into SATA connector of motherboard
  3. OS and Lightroom s/w on #1
  4. Primary other applications s/w on #1, secondary other applications on #2
  5. RAW files on #2, Lightroom Catalog on #1
  6. Exported JPG on #2
  7. Pixel-capable postprocessing s/w on #1, editing JPGs stored on #2
  8. Photos for 'inactive' jobs archived to externally connected (USB 3.0) harddrive, or to internet connected NAS
  9. Data redundancy to externally connected (USB 3.0) RAID, or to internet connected NAS RAID
  10. Offsite data backup storage


Does that sound reasonable to you?


  • SSD yes, M.2 nice to have. All operating system and programs go on your main SSD, not how you've said. There's no benefit to software on another SSD, and the speed a computer boots at is almost irrelevant - if it's a problem just don't turn it off, use suspend. I would partition it so you can have smaller image files, so first half of SSD is OS and programs, second half is cache, catalog, etc.
  • Second disk can be SSD or spinning disk, doesn't make that much difference for image file storage - at least that's according to tests I did a few years ago, which may have changed.
  • Lightroom isn't necessary, I use Bridge and much prefer it.
  • Catalog goes onto SSD. Remember the OS SSD is completely idle after the programs have loaded.
  • Images go onto second disk.
  • Exported images go wherever you want.
  • Inactive jobs can stay on internal disk, plus for me an offline disk and an offsite disk, maybe jpeg copies in cloud storage.

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tim
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Jan 04, 2016 13:13 |  #12

InfiniteDivide wrote in post #17844102 (external link)
60 GB was too small for my needs as a boot drive.
I recently swapped mine for a 3rd party 240 Gb and it has over 100Gb free.

I also agree, spend that money on an external setup incase something goes wrong with your boot drive.

What do you keep on yours? What is it used for? Something like TreeSize free would tell you. Lots of games, lots of media? Windows 10 requires 16GB according to Microsoft.


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drisley
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Jan 04, 2016 16:53 |  #13

Wow guys! Thanks for all this info!

So I have the uber hella fast iMac NVMe 500 GB NVMe for boot, the I will get a Thunderbolt SSD for iTunes, Windows/Boot Camp/ and can I put LR catalogues on there too? I can edit new data (raws) from that drive, then have another USB 3 4GB drive maybe for backup/time machine?

This is the kind of speeds I get with the internal SSD drive on the iMac,which is one reason I figured $550 to go from 500GB to 1TB wasn't "too bad". LOL. That's MegaBYTES (not Bits)!!

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tim
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Jan 04, 2016 18:41 |  #14

drisley wrote in post #17844503 (external link)
Wow guys! Thanks for all this info!

So I have the uber hella fast iMac NVMe 500 GB NVMe for boot, the I will get a Thunderbolt SSD for iTunes, Windows/Boot Camp/ and can I put LR catalogues on there too? I can edit new data (raws) from that drive, then have another USB 3 4GB drive maybe for backup/time machine?

This is the kind of speeds I get with the internal SSD drive on the iMac,which is one reason I figured $550 to go from 500GB to 1TB wasn't "too bad". LOL. That's MegaBYTES (not Bits)!!

500GB is *HUGE*. 1TB is crazy. If you're rich then sure, otherwise I still think you're wasting money. I really see no need to have your archives on SSD.

In your place I'd:
- Partition the disk into (OS + programs) and (other data), if possible and easy - I don't know macs
- Keep OS, programs on the internal disk (main partition if partitioned)
- Put catalog, cache, and current working set of data on the internal disk (second partition if partitioned)
- If your media (iTunes etc) is less than 50GB I'd keep on the main disk, otherwise on Thunderbolt spinning disk

Once you start running low on disk space or when you're finished with files move the files and catalog out to a standard spinning disk running thunderbolt.

Of course you need backups too.


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drisley
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Jan 04, 2016 21:22 as a reply to tim's post |  #15

Macs are very easy to partition, much easier than even windows. I think if I start putting data on the main drive, it could get filled pretty fast. When I shoot bodybuilding show, I can easily take 10,000 photos in a go! LOL.

I could get a SSD Thunderbolt drive, though it's about $500 cdn I think!


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