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FORUMS General Gear Talk Flash and Studio Lighting
Thread started 25 Mar 2016 (Friday) 09:21
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Seriously---so many choices--help please.

 
feeda
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Mar 26, 2016 00:16 |  #16

Hatch1921 wrote in post #17949042 (external link)
8-) shades required :)

Yes.. I agree with you about HSS and the flash output. Lots of options out there... I like that the Interfit S1 can be used on battery or with the included A/C adapter/cord. Several nice reviews about the strobe. Not certain which direction I will go just yet. Choices!

What camera are you using currently? The S1 remote doesn't work on my 7D2, which suggests it may not work on some other newish cameras. Dual AC/DC power is definitely a plus, but I'd ask myself whether it's worth the price of two Rovelights/AD600s (or one of them + a bunch of batteries). The Interfit S1 is very good on paper, but it has a few quality issues in my experience with it. Not saying the others are any better, of course.

As far as whether the lights will have enough output through an octa in full sun, see here: http://photography-on-the.net ...showthread.php?p=17​589413

Just to increase the chaos, I'll also add the Phottix Indra500 to your list.




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Hatch1921
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Post has been last edited over 1 year ago by Hatch1921. 2 edits done in total.
Mar 26, 2016 00:24 |  #17

feeda wrote in post #17949046 (external link)
What camera are you using currently? The S1 remote doesn't work on my 7D2, which suggests it may not work on some other newish cameras. Dual AC/DC power is definitely a plus, but I'd ask myself whether it's worth the price of two Rovelights/AD600s (or one of them + a bunch of batteries). The Interfit S1 is very good on paper, but it has a few quality issues in my experience with it. Not saying the others are any better, of course.

As far as whether the lights will have enough output through an octa in full sun, see here: http://photography-on-the.net ...showthread.php?p=17​589413

Just to increase the chaos, I'll also add the Phottix Indra500 to your list.



Shooting with the 5Ds.


Ahhh yes... I forgot to add the Indra to the mix. :) Joey's work is very nice... I jumped on his Flickr stream today. He's using the Rovelight and the Paul Buff 47" octa. Very nice images! You were saying you can't adjust the power settings of the Rovelight from the transmitter? That wouldn't be fun....

The Godox strobes look promising... then again.. the Baja 4/6 from the videos of shooters using them on location appear to be a nice solution as well. LOL The madness!


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flowrider
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Mar 26, 2016 01:39 |  #18

I shoot with a mix of Flashpoint strobes. I have 1 Rovelight, 2 620M's, and 1 320M. I also have a Vagabond Mini for power. It's honestly not a fancy setup by any means and I'm stuck with 2 different mount types because I got the Rovelight in Bowens mount but they do everything I need them to do. I know that PhilF has had issues with HSS/Supersync or whatever you want to call it but for me it's been near flawless. I trigger the whole setup with YN622c's and since I've gotten the Rovelight V2 trigger I've been using that to trigger it with no issues whatsoever. For me it's been solid and I shoot almost exclusively in HSS.


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umphotography
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Mar 26, 2016 09:17 |  #19

Hatch1921 wrote in post #17948058 (external link)
Many thanks Mike. Nice work btw.. had a look at your site.

With the CL360...are you using them in softboxes/octas? Any issues with setup/performance? Again... not all that interested in e-ttl/ttl ... but.. HSS is something I want to use. Have you made use of HSS for your portrait work on location?

Thanks again,
Hatch


Im using Beauty dish's, Cheetah mods like the mushroom, the stock reflector, also just got a long throw and will have a Rice bowl in a few weeks. also going to use my 12x48 light benders when I get the new adapters for bowens mounts.

HSS works but I use it at 1/8 power to avoid overheating modes. Im told the new transmitters allow more shots. I rarely go past 1/2 power with HSS. I prefer to shoot full power and use ND's to kill the ambient.

If I were buying a complete system it would be the new 360's with Hss and TTL....probably 2 and I would be buying 3 of the speedlights for kickers and indoor needs such as a dance floor.......Maybe 5 of the speedlights....no meed for studio strobes anymore. You can control off of the lights from camera....speedlights are more than enough for studio work

360's let you compete with the sun outside....speedlights let you event shoot and studio light with ease

Thats the way I would go

Read this
http://www.amazon.com ...otographers/dp/1608​956911 (external link)


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Hatch1921
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Mar 26, 2016 09:28 |  #20

flowrider wrote in post #17949083 (external link)
I shoot with a mix of Flashpoint strobes. I have 1 Rovelight, 2 620M's, and 1 320M. I also have a Vagabond Mini for power. It's honestly not a fancy setup by any means and I'm stuck with 2 different mount types because I got the Rovelight in Bowens mount but they do everything I need them to do. I know that PhilF has had issues with HSS/Supersync or whatever you want to call it but for me it's been near flawless. I trigger the whole setup with YN622c's and since I've gotten the Rovelight V2 trigger I've been using that to trigger it with no issues whatsoever. For me it's been solid and I shoot almost exclusively in HSS.

umphotography wrote in post #17949319 (external link)
Im using Beauty dish's, Cheetah mods like the mushroom, the stock reflector, also just got a long throw and will have a Rice bowl in a few weeks. also going to use my 12x48 light benders when I get the new adapters for bowens mounts.

HSS works but I use it at 1/8 power to avoid overheating modes. Im told the new transmitters allow more shots. I rarely go past 1/2 power with HSS. I prefer to shoot full power and use ND's to kill the ambient.

If I were buying a complete system it would be the new 360's with Hss and TTL....probably 2 and I would be buying 3 of the speedlights for kickers and indoor needs such as a dance floor.......Maybe 5 of the speedlights....no meed for studio strobes anymore. You can control off of the lights from camera....speedlights are more than enough for studio work

360's let you compete with the sun outside....speedlights let you event shoot and studio light with ease

Thats the way I would go

Read this
http://www.amazon.com ...otographers/dp/1608​956911 (external link)


Thank you all for the info. My issue I've had in the past with speedlights in studio or out is the recycle time and of course the batteries. This was one of the main reasons I went with the Ranger RX/AS at the time. All the power I could want... little to no recycle times and it just went on for the entire shoot without worry. I understand there will trade offs with some of the strobes/brands. I'm not saying Elinchrom isn't infallible either. The older skyports drove me a little nutty at times. From the feedback so far... it looks like there are a number of Godox and Rovelight users.... and you all are pretty happy for the most part. I'm waiting on Shom to do a review of the new Cheetah/Godox gear they have on the site... this might be a direction I will go? Still pondering this decision...lol.

thanks again all for the great information... it helps.

Hatch


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Wilt
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Post has been last edited over 1 year ago by Wilt. 3 edits done in total.
Mar 26, 2016 09:37 |  #21

feeda wrote in post #17949037 (external link)
Keep in mind that simply enabling HSS will reduce the effective flash output dramatically, so it's not always going to be a direct comparison in terms of Ws to a non-HSS flash. I don't know the gritty details of this as well as some other members might, so I'll let them fill us in.


  1. HSS drops light output intensity by a minimum of -2EV, some have experienced a drop of -3EV, as soon as HSS is active (not merely 'enabled' on the flash)
  2. #1 happens as soon as you go even 1/3EV faster shutter speed than max X-sync speed for your camera, e.g. 1/320 for APS-C camera with 1/250 max X-sync
  3. As you go up higher in speed from #2, you continue to lose output intensity because now the shutter is behaving like it is regulating a constant light situation, and normal rules of exposure control all apply once more, in HSS you no longer are using a speedlight from the standpoint of 'no effect by shutter speed' on flash intensity.

...so APS-C at 1/5000 will have lost a total of -6EV of flash intensity at the minimum! Put it another way, a Canon 580EXII with GN 138 at a 'normal' lens coverage angle can reach to 49' at ISO 100 using f/2.8, but in HSS mode at 1/5000 it can reach only 6' (in -1EV fill you can get to 8.6')

Many years ago a number of us did comparative HSS behavior characterizations. One fellow with four 580EX units discovered that two of his flash units lost -2EV from HSS being commanded from the camera, yet the other two would immediately lose -3EV of output, and could never figure out why a difference in behavior.
Another guy discovered that HIS camera activated HSS and lost -2EV of output intensity exactly at the X-sync speed, if HSS was enabled on the flash unit, whereas the rest of us found we had to exceed X-sync shutter speed by 1/3 EV

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PhilF
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Mar 26, 2016 09:46 |  #22

flowrider wrote in post #17949083 (external link)
I shoot with a mix of Flashpoint strobes. I have 1 Rovelight, 2 620M's, and 1 320M. I also have a Vagabond Mini for power. It's honestly not a fancy setup by any means and I'm stuck with 2 different mount types because I got the Rovelight in Bowens mount but they do everything I need them to do. I know that PhilF has had issues with HSS/Supersync or whatever you want to call it but for me it's been near flawless. I trigger the whole setup with YN622c's and since I've gotten the Rovelight V2 trigger I've been using that to trigger it with no issues whatsoever. For me it's been solid and I shoot almost exclusively in HSS.

I think the reazon why im having problems is I am using the Rovelight with different brands of speedlights (YN600rts).


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Hatch1921
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Mar 27, 2016 01:43 |  #23

Wilt wrote in post #17949345 (external link)

  1. HSS drops light output intensity by a minimum of -2EV, some have experienced a drop of -3EV, as soon as HSS is active (not merely 'enabled' on the flash)
  2. #1 happens as soon as you go even 1/3EV faster shutter speed than max X-sync speed for your camera, e.g. 1/320 for APS-C camera with 1/250 max X-sync
  3. As you go up higher in speed from #2, you continue to lose output intensity because now the shutter is behaving like it is regulating a constant light situation, and normal rules of exposure control all apply once more, in HSS you no longer are using a speedlight from the standpoint of 'no effect by shutter speed' on flash intensity.

...so APS-C at 1/5000 will have lost a total of -6EV of flash intensity at the minimum! Put it another way, a Canon 580EXII with GN 138 at a 'normal' lens coverage angle can reach to 49' at ISO 100 using f/2.8, but in HSS mode at 1/5000 it can reach only 6' (in -1EV fill you can get to 8.6')

Many years ago a number of us did comparative HSS behavior characterizations. One fellow with four 580EX units discovered that two of his flash units lost -2EV from HSS being commanded from the camera, yet the other two would immediately lose -3EV of output, and could never figure out why a difference in behavior.
Another guy discovered that HIS camera activated HSS and lost -2EV of output intensity exactly at the X-sync speed, if HSS was enabled on the flash unit, whereas the rest of us found we had to exceed X-sync shutter speed by 1/3 EV

PhilF wrote in post #17949354 (external link)
I think the reazon why im having problems is I am using the Rovelight with different brands of speedlights (YN600rts).


Thanks again all for the info.
Hatch


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Ulysses01
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Mar 29, 2016 03:04 |  #24

Hatch1921 wrote in post #17948769 (external link)
I just want to avoid having to us a ND filter... I'm sure there will be times I will still might need to use one depending on the lens and f/stop

I'm surprised you want to discontinue use of the ND filter. Most who use that method have very little interest in an HSS feature because it doesn't quite achieve what many expect, and it does what it does at the expense of range, apparent power output, and number of shots possible. HSS is also hard on the bulb.




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Ulysses01
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Post has been edited over 1 year ago by Ulysses01.
Mar 29, 2016 03:09 |  #25

Hatch1921 wrote in post #17948359 (external link)
It looks like the new 600 will ship in a month... in limited quantities. I appreciate the info about the strobes/brand.

I would ask: Besides HSS, what is your list of top priorities in a strobe? Dig deep. :-)

Each of the ones you listed offer the prime feature you asked about. But they each specialize in a particular area while failing in others. For example, the Rovelight offers lots of power on the cheap. But it's transmitter is pretty awful.

What pros do you need to have, and what cons can you tolerate? :-)

Right now, the Godox / CheetahStand offer the best rounded feature set and performance, by most accounts.




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xseven
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Mar 29, 2016 08:08 |  #26

agv8or wrote in post #17948207 (external link)
The new AD360II shows a lot of promise if they fix a few issues. Godox has a ways to go before every one is going to be happy but they have come a long way in just the short few months that their new "X" 2.4G wireless system has been on the market.

What issues do you have in mind? :)




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Hatch1921
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Post has been edited over 1 year ago by Hatch1921.
Mar 29, 2016 08:17 |  #27

Ulysses01 wrote in post #17952956 (external link)
I'm surprised you want to discontinue use of the ND filter. Most who use that method have very little interest in an HSS feature because it doesn't quite achieve what many expect, and it does what it does at the expense of range, apparent power output, and number of shots possible. HSS is also hard on the bulb.

Ulysses01 wrote in post #17952962 (external link)
I would ask: Besides HSS, what is your list of top priorities in a strobe? Dig deep. :-)

Each of the ones you listed offer the prime feature you asked about. But they each specialize in a particular area while failing in others. For example, the Rovelight offers lots of power on the cheap. But it's transmitter is pretty awful.

What pros do you need to have, and what cons can you tolerate? :-)

Right now, the Godox / CheetahStand offer the best rounded feature set and performance, by most accounts.



I'm sure there will be situations where I will still need to use a ND filter... and I'll have them with me in the bag.

Top priorities... A solid performing ... battery operated strobe/s (pack or head) that will allow me to shoot HSS, so I can shoot wide open with minimal effort. Color consistency is important. Recycle times...as long as they are decent (2-4 sec) I'm not overly concerned.

Prior to going back to work/school and putting photography on hold, I shot with the Ranger RX/AS and a couple of Elinchrom 600RX monolights. This allowed me to shoot outdoors and I had a nice indoors setup as well. The majority of my sessions were on location... outdoors.

If I can cut the cords... have a nice... strobe or strobes to shoot with which provide studio quality lighting... this would be great. I've been down the speedlight path and was not happy. I do not need a ton of features.... I've always shot manual and have had no use for much else. With HSS now a possibility... I think for my shooting style, I would get a lot of use out of this feature.

Godox/Cheetah strobes are in the running.... the Rovelight (and some sort of reliable trigger system) and Interfit are all in the running. Maybe even the Baja strobes the Indra. Which brings me back to my original issue...lol so many choices... which brand do I go with?

I really like the work/look Joey Baccala has been producing using the Rovelight. This is the look I'm going for... and I know a number of the strobes can get me there... without the use of the ND filter :)

I hope some of this makes sense. :)

Thanks again all for the info.
Hatch


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dmward
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Mar 29, 2016 18:41 |  #28

Starting with the ND filter vs HSS "issue"; They each "absorb" light. Getting to 1/5000 shutter speed at F1.4, ISO 100 requires about the same EV blocking by an ND filter as the "cost" of light output in HSS mode.
I've used both.

The nice thing with a strobe like the AD600 is you can do either depending on the situation. Others like the Rovelight can either do "hypersync" like with a TTL capable trigger or ND. With the new AD600 TTL I'd probably default to HSS just because its faster and easier to setup.

Watch the Hensel (external link) video on mask shooting. Its something I wasn't aware of until I read Rand's post in another thread. That capability, imbedded in the AD600, adds tremendous value. For me at least.


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Hatch1921
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Mar 29, 2016 19:44 |  #29

dmward wrote in post #17953864 (external link)
Starting with the ND filter vs HSS "issue"; They each "absorb" light. Getting to 1/5000 shutter speed at F1.4, ISO 100 requires about the same EV blocking by an ND filter as the "cost" of light output in HSS mode.
I've used both.

The nice thing with a strobe like the AD600 is you can do either depending on the situation. Others like the Rovelight can either do "hypersync" like with a TTL capable trigger or ND. With the new AD600 TTL I'd probably default to HSS just because its faster and easier to setup.

Watch the Hensel (external link) video on mask shooting. Its something I wasn't aware of until I read Rand's post in another thread. That capability, imbedded in the AD600, adds tremendous value. For me at least.


The Hensel video is pretty amazing. The AD600/re-branded Cheetah strobe looks promising. Still uncertain which direction I will go but I do appreciate the info.

Thanks,


Hatch


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Angmo
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Post has been last edited over 1 year ago by Angmo. 2 edits done in total.
Mar 29, 2016 20:28 as a reply to Hatch1921's post |  #30

With the new Skyport HS Pro I shoot my Elinchrom ELC 1000s and Ranger RX AS with S head outdoors. Just did a shoot and used 1/5000 2.8 with no problems at all.

Plenty of power. I bring Buf VLX Extreme battery inverters along.

ELC 1000s don't weigh much and replacing the Eli battery in the Ranger with lithium drops weight by, what?? 5 pounds? Works well and I keep all my Eli modifiers.


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Seriously---so many choices--help please.
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