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FORUMS Photography Talk by Genre Macro Talk
Thread started 13 Apr 2016 (Wednesday) 07:46
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Killing insects for macro photography

 
John ­ Koerner
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San Dimas, CA
Apr 20, 2016 08:51 |  #31
banned

Alveric wrote in post #17972426 (external link)
They're animals! And some of them are downright venomous and deleterious too. So squash them. Man, this environmentalist religion is really getting out of control.

You're an animal too: Homo sapiens.

Should we have no regard for your life, either?




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Swiftlet
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Apr 20, 2016 16:57 |  #32

Swiftlet wrote in post #17978140 (external link) It makes no different to my, or anyone's right to dive into a multiple threads opining away on why someone's techniques, interests and aspirations aren't as worthy as others - which would in your case, mean yours.

But that's where your wrong,

Ah So you DO think that having published pictures gives one the authority to tell everyone else they're wrong.

The rest is utterly irrelevant & tangential , as before.

However good bad or imaginary my photographs are, or what someone thinks of yours, doesn't matter a scrap if someone wants to do something any how they like.
I'm pointing out that you don't have the right to say those things, which you think must be wrong because you can't see my pictures. Logical??


I'm not bitter at all, but am constantly reminded how we're bludgeoned by your comments, despite a string of people pointing out that you just might not have it right for all of the people, all of the time..
I'm not marginalizing your work, but it 's not all-encompassing, is it? It's one restricted aspect of macro photography.

"Focus stacking is just muscle memory and mechanics." Wrong, it's absolutely not true. Doing a few frames is easy hand held. Try 300 frames or 1300 and you'll see it's not "just" anything.

"if your pockets are deep enough and just buy a microprocessor controlled focusing rail. " Wrong, you don't need to buy anything. We can explain if you like.

"Good photos are not defined by how an image is taken, or by what was used to take them, and that's why I don't get hung up on either of them."
There's only one person here getting hung up on "how or what was used".
" the fixation that some have with absolute image sharpness" - where is this imagined Straw Man? (external link)

"if it's good then people will save it to their desktop as wallpaper" In whose opinion? My desktop is plain
The USGS Bee Inventory (external link) is doing a great job of photographing dead critters, so the rest of us don't have to. No, their scope is narrow. Maybe it satisfies you, not everyone.

"when I first started shooting macro a decade ago there just wasn't much info out there" Not true. A long time before you started, there was plenty. Just a couple:
"Borne on the Wind", Dalton, published 41 years ago, or http://www.amazon.com ...r-Lefkowitz/dp/B00JX4SSW​6 (external link) pub 1979, would put right a number of your misconceptions. There actually WERE good pictures of bees taken before 2006. Fructose solutions, with rum, soy sauce, all manner of cocktails, had been used too.

"you've lost all credibility." Ok sure if you say so, a nice respectable, constructive comment. Show me where I'm wrong, without going off on another tangent?

"no more "special" than any of the techniques that I use". Perhaps that's the nub of it, nobody said they were special, but do you imagine yourself as a standard by which others are to be judged?



Jack Swift

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Dalantech
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Apr 21, 2016 02:27 as a reply to Swiftlet's post |  #33

Steb.


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Swiftlet
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Apr 21, 2016 09:42 |  #34

"shall try educational books"? Good.



Jack Swift

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Dalantech
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Apr 21, 2016 12:39 |  #35

Swiftlet wrote in post #17979609 (external link)
"shall try educational books"? Good.

I'm going to have to start ignoring you here like I do everywhere else on the web. Your opinion of my is so negative, and you're so hurt by my remarks, that I can't have a rational conversation with you. But I'm starting to think that no one can unless they agree with everything you say.


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Swiftlet
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Post has been edited over 1 year ago by Swiftlet.
Apr 21, 2016 18:17 |  #36

I'm going to have to start ignoring you here like I do everywhere else on the web. Your opinion of my is so negative, and you're so hurt by my remarks, that I can't have a rational conversation with you. But I'm starting to think that no one can unless they agree with everything you say.

But you don't ignore me, "everywhere else on the web". Anywhere, in fact.
My opinion of your what is negative? Your attitude to others, definitely, but I'm not alone there.
Your work? No, it's ok.

I'm not in the least hurt!!
Where have I been irrational?

starting to think that no one can (...have a rational conversation with you...) unless they agree with everything you say.

Please point to one case ; or was that another Straw Man?


The only likely irrational issue I can think of in the last couple of years was over thermal jittering and quantum entanglement - but I don't think it was with you? I backed out of that one because I couldn't propose an alternate to what was being suggested, and it's difficult to keep rational because of the subject . Being wrong in a rational discussion is fine by me, if/when it happens. It means I get to learn someting.

A couple of posts ago I pointed out where I think you're factually wrong on several matters. I'm ok with trying to explain why, even though all I've seen you do is hurl irrational insults.



Jack Swift

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Dalantech
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Apr 21, 2016 22:25 as a reply to Swiftlet's post |  #37

I have never said that everyone has to shoot they way I do, or that my photography is superior. Fact is I view photography as art, and as such there are no fixed rules. But you continue to paint me I a completely different light, no matter what I say -pretty sure I'm wasting my time because your just going to respond with another rant filled with name calling and accusations.

I could swear that you are SteB due to your writing style. In any case this will be my last post to anything you say.


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T.D.
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Apr 21, 2016 23:32 |  #38

Folks, take personal disagreements to PM or elsewhere and keep them off the forums.

Please re-read the rules. If you can't remember all of them, remember this one: Don't be a jerk.

Thanks.

T.D.
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Ceropegia
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Apr 21, 2016 23:59 |  #39

Sort of back on topic re killing insects. Rather than killing them, why not slow them down by chilling them for a few minutes in the refrigerator or freezer. I know someone fond of shooting spiders who has done this on occasion. He has avered that spiders are particularly good candidates for this technique because they have a sort of antifreeze in their bodies that keeps them from dying when chilled almost to the point of freezing.


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Archibald
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Apr 22, 2016 00:23 |  #40

Ceropegia wrote in post #17980420 (external link)
Sort of back on topic re killing insects. Rather than killing them, why not slow them down by chilling them for a few minutes in the refrigerator or freezer. I know someone fond of shooting spiders who has done this on occasion. He has avered that spiders are particularly good candidates for this technique because they have a sort of antifreeze in their bodies that keeps them from dying when chilled almost to the point of freezing.

Yes, that is fine, but some people even frown on cooling a bug down. (It is unnatural or might make them uncomfortable.)

Some bugs don't cool very well. Wasps, for instance, curl up like they are dead, making them unphotogenic. Then when they warm up slightly, they start to squirm, and that is unsuitable for focus stacking.

It seems that many insects can survive freezing temperatures, yet others can't, or can only tolerate low temperatures in certain seasons. I don't know about spiders (which are not insects (external link) and are more closely related to scorpions and horseshoe crabs).


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Dalantech
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Apr 22, 2016 02:06 |  #41

Ceropegia wrote in post #17980420 (external link)
Sort of back on topic re killing insects. Rather than killing them, why not slow them down by chilling them for a few minutes in the refrigerator or freezer. I know someone fond of shooting spiders who has done this on occasion. He has avered that spiders are particularly good candidates for this technique because they have a sort of antifreeze in their bodies that keeps them from dying when chilled almost to the point of freezing.

Spiders are tough to shoot when they're active -easier to shoot if you find them with prey so that they're a little distracted.

From the Amateur Entomologist Society article on overwintering (external link):

A third exception are some Linyphiid spiders. About 9% of spiders in relatively mild areas remain active throughout winter. These are nearly all Linyphiids who can still make a web at temperatures as low as -1°C. They feed mainly on Collembola, but even they freeze and die if the temperature gets down to -7°C.

I've noticed that insects (and this might apply to spiders) seem to get use to the area that they live in, even solitary bees that have a short life cycle (so probably passed on as a genetic trait). I live just a few hundred meters above sea level, and the insects in this area are very susceptible to cold weather. Up the the mountains where my sister in law lives the same species can be active at lower temperatures. So you may have to take location into consideration when chilling insects. It's funny that the opposite isn't true, because of how insects breath and the difference in oxygen levels at higher elevations.


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Swiftlet
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Post has been last edited over 1 year ago by Swiftlet. 4 edits done in total.
Apr 22, 2016 02:17 |  #42

For the record I've not called anyone names. No "Steb" which I assume is a deragatory term, or "you've lost all credibility" from me.
But there will be a reaction against ill-informed rants declaring that something I care about is wrong for repeated, imagined, pejorative reasons.
Offer stands, if anyone would like something explained, objectively if I can help.

Oh Yes this thread was about killing bugs, not one person's photography.
Cooling: I find they warm up too darned fast! It's feasible to make a cold "stage" from a peltier panel and CPU heatsink, but I haven't tried.

A stream of carbon dioxide does work. There are several sources from cork removal tools, in the drinks industry, and I think aquaria.
Good luck with a philodromid, they're fast! I've successfully puffed CO2 on a few coleoptera.

Getting up early is sure one of the best ways. Copy John Hallmén :).

I've become inured to purposefully killing a few things now and again. If that offends you, living in an Alaskan summer would be tough!



Jack Swift

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davholla
THREAD ­ STARTER
Senior Member
Joined Nov 2014
Apr 22, 2016 03:06 |  #43

Swiftlet wrote in post #17980507 (external link)
For the record I've not called anyone names. No "Steb" which I assume is a deragatory term, or "you've lost all credibility" from me.
But there will be a reaction against ill-informed rants declaring that something I care about is wrong for repeated, imagined, pejorative reasons.
Offer stands, if anyone would like something explained, objectively if I can help.

Oh Yes, exactly, this thread was about killing bugs, not a person's photography.
Cooling: I find they warm up too darned fast! It's feasible to make a cold "stage" from a peltier panel and CPU heatsink, but I haven't tried.

A stream of carbon dioxide does work. There are several sources from cork removal tools, in the drinks industry, and I think aquaria.
Good luck with a philodromid, they're fast! I've successfully puffed CO2 on a few coleoptera.

Getting up early is sure one of the best ways. Copy John Hallmén :).

I've become mostly inured to purposefully killing a few things now and again. If that offends you, living in an Alaskan summer would be tough!

Steb is a great photographer who he thinks you are. It is not an insult rather a suggestion that you are him.




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davholla
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Senior Member
Joined Nov 2014
Apr 22, 2016 03:07 |  #44

Ceropegia wrote in post #17980420 (external link)
Sort of back on topic re killing insects. Rather than killing them, why not slow them down by chilling them for a few minutes in the refrigerator or freezer. I know someone fond of shooting spiders who has done this on occasion. He has avered that spiders are particularly good candidates for this technique because they have a sort of antifreeze in their bodies that keeps them from dying when chilled almost to the point of freezing.

Sadly I do have to kill gooseberry sawfly or they will destroy my gooseberries. BTW there is a rare moth in the UK which eats gooseberry leaves (but not to a level which kills them) which I am hoping to attract so it is not just for my benefit.




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Swiftlet
Member
80 posts
Joined Feb 2016
Apr 22, 2016 03:46 as a reply to davholla's post |  #45

Thanks for the information. I assume SteB wishes to remain anonymous so I can neither confirm nor deny though perhaps we are like-minded on one issue.
One of the blessings and blights of the internet is that we can all use proxy servers, change IP address and device, and appear as someone else from another state very easily, if so inclined.
If you stick to one name, you get caught out if you keep offending people for the same reasons!

I have no illusions about being a "great photographer". One who may be, confided in me that to be called such a thing one only has to specialise, in kittens, puppies and blue-birds. Everyone will think you are just great and you can earn a fortune.



Jack Swift

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