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FORUMS General Gear Talk Camera Vs. Camera
Thread started 20 Apr 2016 (Wednesday) 20:57
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5D mk 3 or 6D for first full frame

 
eddieb1
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Post has been edited over 1 year ago by eddieb1.
May 03, 2016 08:54 |  #31

Bassat wrote in post #17994108 (external link)
Spoken like someone who has never touched a 6D. This may be getting a bit repetitive, but I put my 6D's AI-Servo AF up against that of the 7D. In case you are wondering, I owned both at the same time. The 6D is significantly more responsive than the 7D. The limitation of the 6D is: center point only. The peripheral points on the 6D just suck at AI-Servo: too few, and too far apart. The AF of the 7D is way more configurable. If you can keep the center point on target, the 6D is the better choice. The 6D is not the best choice for moving targets. Neither is it a slouch.

I have 15,000 shots on my 6D. I couldn't agree with you more. Which is why I bought a 1DIII. :)

Gotta agree with both of you. As a matter of fact, I find myself agreeing with the two of you, more and more. I'm beginning to tire more and more hearing about how wonderful the 5DIII is. I'm starting to see the 5DIII as a jack of all trades, master of non. Hearing about the 5DIII on a daily basis makes me wonder why Canon even bothers to make any other cameras. Anyway, dollar for dollar, the 6D offers substantially more then the 5DIII. Any one that has owned one, knows. The 5DIII, while being a great camera, is not the answer for everyone. Hearing some people giving people advise to save their money and buy a 5DIII, especially when someone asks help in selecting between two totally different camera, which happens here a lot, is not doing justice to an OP, or anyone else. To the OP, rent both, and I'm sure you'll get the 6D, and have enough cash left over for a nice piece of glass.




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TeamSpeed
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Post has been last edited over 1 year ago by TeamSpeed. 5 edits done in total.
May 03, 2016 09:11 |  #32

Bassat wrote in post #17994108 (external link)
Spoken like someone who has never touched a 6D. This may be getting a bit repetitive, but I put my 6D's AI-Servo AF up against that of the 7D. In case you are wondering, I owned both at the same time. The 6D is significantly more responsive than the 7D. The limitation of the 6D is: center point only. The peripheral points on the 6D just suck at AI-Servo: too few, and too far apart. The AF of the 7D is way more configurable. If you can keep the center point on target, the 6D is the better choice. The 6D is not the best choice for moving targets. Neither is it a slouch.

I have 15,000 shots on my 6D. I couldn't agree with you more. Which is why I bought a 1DIII. :)

http://photography-on-the.net ...showthread.php?p=15​921433

I periodically shot my 7D and now all the time with my 7D2 using off center points with sports, in fact, 99% of the time, I am not using the center point during the actual action part of the games. I did the same with the 5D3 too, when I was using that for the same sports.

What little I used the 6D for, I never was able to find out if it could do that.


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TeamSpeed
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May 03, 2016 09:16 |  #33

eddieb1 wrote in post #17994261 (external link)
Gotta agree with both of you. As a matter of fact, I find myself agreeing with the two of you, more and more. I'm beginning to tire more and more hearing about how wonderful the 5DIII is. I'm starting to see the 5DIII as a jack of all trades, master of non. Hearing about the 5DIII on a daily basis makes me wonder why Canon even bothers to make any other cameras. Anyway, dollar for dollar, the 6D offers substantially more then the 5DIII. Any one that has owned one, knows. The 5DIII, while being a great camera, is not the answer for everyone. Hearing some people giving people advise to save their money and buy a 5DIII, especially when someone asks help in selecting between two totally different camera, which happens here a lot, is not doing justice to an OP, or anyone else. To the OP, rent both, and I'm sure you'll get the 6D, and have enough cash left over for a nice piece of glass.

Depends on what you shoot, whether you need insurance against lost images, and what kind of AF system you need.... These are the same factors that went into whether one needed a 1D series or lesser over the past decade. The 6D simply wouldn't cut it for what I shoot, for example.


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eddieb1
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May 03, 2016 09:33 |  #34

TeamSpeed wrote in post #17994277 (external link)
Depends on what you shoot, whether you need insurance against lost images, and what kind of AF system you need.... These are the same factors that went into whether one needed a 1D series or lesser over the past decade. The 6D simply wouldn't cut it for what I shoot, for example.

My point exactly. To recommend a certain camera to everybody the needs a camera, is not serving that person best. To clarify, I do not shoot sports. My interests go toward landscape and, to a lesser degree, portraiture. I do not need, nor do I want, an AF system with 61 points or a 63 zone sensor. For me, the 6D, or similar camera, is all I need. I would much rather spend the $1000 I'd have left over on a 135mm L lens, or an 85L. To tell that I need a 5DIII is not helping me, or anyone else.




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TeamSpeed
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May 03, 2016 09:35 |  #35

eddieb1 wrote in post #17994294 (external link)
My point exactly. To recommend a certain camera to everybody the needs a camera, is not serving that person best. To clarify, I do not shoot sports. My interests go toward landscape and, to a lesser degree, portraiture. I do not need, nor do I want, an AF system with 61 points or a 63 zone sensor. For me, the 6D, or similar camera, is all I need. I would much rather spend the $1000 I'd have left over on a 135mm L lens, or an 85L. To tell that I need a 5DIII is not helping me, or anyone else.

Definitely, and based on the TS's experience and questions, the 6D sounds like the better option over the 5D3. Even for seasoned shooters of Canon equipment, the 5D3, having more in common with 1D series than the old 5D2 or current 6D, can be confusing to configure and use. :)


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Bassat
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May 03, 2016 09:38 |  #36

TeamSpeed wrote in post #17994274 (external link)
http://photography-on-the.net ...showthread.php?p=15​921433

I periodically shot my 7D and now all the time with my 7D2 using off center points with sports, in fact, 99% of the time, I am not using the center point during the actual action part of the games. I did the same with the 5D3 too, when I was using that for the same sports.

What little I used the 6D for, I never was able to find out if it could do that.

After 2+ years and 15,000+ shots on my 6D, I have to believe that you would NOT have gotten those shots (I've seen your basketball and hockey work) with a 6D. While the 6D's AF is better than non-users believe, it is mostly a center-point only camera. At least that is how I use it. The AI-Servo on my 60D was better.


Tom

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AlanU
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May 03, 2016 14:19 |  #37

eddieb1 wrote in post #17994294 (external link)
My point exactly. To recommend a certain camera to everybody the needs a camera, is not serving that person best. To clarify, I do not shoot sports. My interests go toward landscape and, to a lesser degree, portraiture. I do not need, nor do I want, an AF system with 61 points or a 63 zone sensor. For me, the 6D, or similar camera, is all I need. I would much rather spend the $1000 I'd have left over on a 135mm L lens, or an 85L. To tell that I need a 5DIII is not helping me, or anyone else.

There is a deliberate reason why Canon put the old AF system in the 6D. This allows future "upgrades" for the next 6dmk2.

For a strict portrait shooter and landscape I'd even consider a metabone adapter and shoot with an older A7R. This would allow me to adapt my canon lenses.

Indeed static/slow moving subjects can be easily documented by a 5dmk2/6d. I still use my 5dmk2 for many applications. However my typical shooting style I'd say the 5dmk2 puts me in a state of potential money shots lost even in events photography.

If the OP is willing to buy a 5dmk3 this will cover virtually everything that is thrown at it. For a primary camera system that is truly justifiable spending extra coin IMO for my shooting style and requirements. However if a photog will never ever need the capabilities of better AF the 6d is a great body to buy for a lot less money.

I'm not quite sure your comments of the 5dmk3:

"the 5DIII as a jack of all trades, master of non"

The 5dmk3 meets every aspect of the 6d and provides even more . How does your comments devalue the 5dmk3 as a "master on none"?

People can use whatever meets their needs. I think the POTN community is basically suggesting the worth of other gear.


5Dmkiv |5Dmkiii | 80D | 24LmkII | 35mm f/2 IS | 85 mkII L | 100L | EF-S 10-22 | 16-35L mkII | 24-70 f/2.8L mkii| 70-200 f/2.8 ISL mkII| 600EX-RT x2 | 580 EX II x2 | Einstein's
Fuji X-T2 w/battery booster | 16mm f/1.4 | 56 f/1.2 | 10-24 f/4.0 | 55-200 | EF-X500

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Bassat
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May 03, 2016 16:11 |  #38

AlanU wrote in post #17994689 (external link)
There is a deliberate reason why Canon put the old AF system in the 6D.

It is difficult to continue reading your post when the first sentence is wholly and completely inaccurate. Canon did not put the 'old AF system' in the 6D.

The 6D has an eleven point AF system, with the center point being cross-type at f/2.8 and faster. This was the first use of this system.

The 6D quickly and reliably focuses down to -3EV. IIRC, no other Canon body did that at the time. I don't believe any but the 80D does it now. Perhaps the 1DX II does. The 6D can focus in light you wouldn't use it in.

The AF system on MY 6D is dead-on accurate with every Canon lens I've ever put on it, with the exception of the cheap 50mm lenses (1.8, 1.8 II, STM, 1.4), none of which focus well in low light. I've used MFA, but not with Canon lenses.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again. The AF system on the 6D is spooky-good. That is not something I'd say about the other Canon bodies I've used: T90, Elan 7, Elan 7NE, EOS 630, 450D, 500D, 60D, 7D, 70D, 5Dc. I only recently got my 1DIII. The 6D AF is not faster than the 1DIII, but is it more accurate.

The 6D by no means has the 'old AF' system. Try using one for few days.


Tom

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AlanU
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May 03, 2016 17:25 |  #39

Bassat wrote in post #17994804 (external link)
It is difficult to continue reading your post when the first sentence is wholly and completely inaccurate. Canon did not put the 'old AF system' in the 6D.

The 6D has an eleven point AF system, with the center point being cross-type at f/2.8 and faster. This was the first use of this system.

The 6D quickly and reliably focuses down to -3EV. IIRC, no other Canon body did that at the time. I don't believe any but the 80D does it now. Perhaps the 1DX II does. The 6D can focus in light you wouldn't use it in.

The AF system on MY 6D is dead-on accurate with every Canon lens I've ever put on it, with the exception of the cheap 50mm lenses (1.8, 1.8 II, STM, 1.4), none of which focus well in low light. I've used MFA, but not with Canon lenses.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again. The AF system on the 6D is spooky-good. That is not something I'd say about the other Canon bodies I've used: T90, Elan 7, Elan 7NE, EOS 630, 450D, 500D, 60D, 7D, 70D, 5Dc. I only recently got my 1DIII. The 6D AF is not faster than the 1DIII, but is it more accurate.

The 6D by no means has the 'old AF' system. Try using one for few days.

So the 6d has 2 more outer AF points that are still not cross count. I digress and will say Canon went barebone basic on this AF system. Couldn't imagine how they did not introduce a basic 40d AF system with more cross counts......

No doubt it's a fast center focus camera just like the 5dmk2.

If I owned a 6d I do have ND filters if I hit the 1/4000 max shutter speed. This is somewhat of a degrade from the 5dmk2's 1/8000 max shutter speed. I do welcome the much better noise reduction and less banding of the 6d.

The Op can decide what suites their style.


5Dmkiv |5Dmkiii | 80D | 24LmkII | 35mm f/2 IS | 85 mkII L | 100L | EF-S 10-22 | 16-35L mkII | 24-70 f/2.8L mkii| 70-200 f/2.8 ISL mkII| 600EX-RT x2 | 580 EX II x2 | Einstein's
Fuji X-T2 w/battery booster | 16mm f/1.4 | 56 f/1.2 | 10-24 f/4.0 | 55-200 | EF-X500

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LincsRP
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May 03, 2016 18:13 |  #40

eddieb1 wrote in post #17994261 (external link)
I'm beginning to tire more and more hearing about how wonderful the 5DIII is. I'm starting to see the 5DIII as a jack of all trades, master of non. Hearing about the 5DIII on a daily basis makes me wonder why Canon even bothers to make any other cameras.

If you had a 5D3 and used it daily your comments would be different. It is 'almost' a 1-series body without the serious weather sealing and shutter abuse a 1-series can handle. I did buy one expecting it to be a let down against my 1DX and other 1-series bodies and I am reluctant to say but it is a cracking good machine.


Steve
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elitejp
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May 03, 2016 21:13 |  #41

jackstens wrote in post #17979116 (external link)
I shoot mostly landscape/ cityscape. Random things I find cool or that tell a story. Some macro mixed in. Not so many portraits but Im still finding new stuff and testing the waters exploring different things so I would like a versatile camera.

Just quoting post number 4 written by the op.
Now for all those recommending the 5d3 explain why the 6d isn't up to the task?


6D; canon 85mm 1.8, Tamron 24-70mm VC, Canon 135L Canon 70-200L is ii

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Silver-Halide
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May 03, 2016 21:37 |  #42

I like my 5dIII. It is indeed ergonomically better than the 6d. That said, I find the slow speed of the SD slot deplorable. I also wish the AF points were more spread out across the OVF.


Echoes in Eternity LLC | Tucson and Southern Arizona Wedding Photographer (external link)

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eddieb1
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May 03, 2016 21:39 |  #43

elitejp wrote in post #17995089 (external link)
Just quoting post number 4 written by the op.
Now for all those recommending the 5d3 explain why the 6d isn't up to the task?

Well, by now I thought you know why the 6D isn't up to the task. Because it isn't a 5DIII !!!!!!!!!!!!!!! No other camera can do anything. :eek:




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AlanU
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May 03, 2016 21:51 |  #44

elitejp wrote in post #17995089 (external link)
Just quoting post number 4 written by the op.
Now for all those recommending the 5d3 explain why the 6d isn't up to the task?


"but Im still finding new stuff and testing the waters exploring different things so I would like a versatile camera."


The op has mentioned two Canon bodies. The 5dmk3 is without a question more versatile than the 6D. Faster AF, bigger buffer, excellent noise control, dual memory card slots, 1/8000 max shutter speed.

I've used the 5dmk2 for many years now. I pushed that camera to the limit to find the limitations. The 5d3 has boosted "piece of mind" with dual cards and it's a beast for any type of situation I'm ever thrown into.

The OP just has to understand the limitations of the 6D and make do.... That's what I did with my 5dmk2 and had great success documenting alot of different situations. Did my 5dmk3 make a difference?? Yes!!!! substantial difference in capturing /tracking where the 5dmk2 would struggle.

IF the 6d came with dual cards I think I would have bought one years ago and deal with the crippled 1/4000 max shutter limitation.

My little fuji has a 1/4000 max shutter speed but it can automatically transition into an electronic shutter for faster shutter speeds. This is one reason why I can deal with my fuji for slow/static subjects. The 6D would destroy the fuji in many ways but I truly want 1/8000 max shutter for all of my dslr's.

At this moment in time the 5dmk3 will provide more avenue's as the skill set develops even more into fast moving subjects. The 5d3 is so good that it can be a camera that will last for many years as far as performance is concerned. The 6D was crippled straight out of the gates with the basic AF system and 1/4000 max shutter speed (fine for ND filter use/landscape/cityscap​e). The 6d has been introduced as an introductory FF by Canon.

This is not about disrespecting the 6d. This is basing it on the designed specifications. Different tools have different applications that are more suited for different types of photography. In this particular case the 5dmk3 can do exactly what the 6D can do but a lot more .

If the OP never ever ventures into fast action requirements the 6d would fit like a glove. For professional purposes I just dont like the idea of not having dual memory cards in this age of technology. I think Sony is nuts not to incorporate such an important feature.


5Dmkiv |5Dmkiii | 80D | 24LmkII | 35mm f/2 IS | 85 mkII L | 100L | EF-S 10-22 | 16-35L mkII | 24-70 f/2.8L mkii| 70-200 f/2.8 ISL mkII| 600EX-RT x2 | 580 EX II x2 | Einstein's
Fuji X-T2 w/battery booster | 16mm f/1.4 | 56 f/1.2 | 10-24 f/4.0 | 55-200 | EF-X500

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EverydayGetaway
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May 03, 2016 21:57 |  #45

AlanU wrote in post #17995111 (external link)

"but Im still finding new stuff and testing the waters exploring different things so I would like a versatile camera."


The op has mentioned two Canon bodies. The 5dmk3 is without a question more versatile than the 6D. Faster AF, bigger buffer, excellent noise control, dual memory card slots, 1/8000 max shutter speed.

I've used the 5dmk2 for many years now. I pushed that camera to the limit to find the limitations. The 5d3 has boosted "piece of mind" with dual cards and it's a beast for any type of situation I'm ever thrown into.

The OP just has to understand the limitations of the 6D and make do.... That's what I did with my 5dmk2 and had great success documenting alot of different situations. Did my 5dmk3 make a difference?? Yes!!!! substantial difference in capturing /tracking where the 5dmk2 would struggle.

IF the 6d came with dual cards I think I would have bought one years ago and deal with the crippled 1/4000 max shutter limitation.

My little fuji has a 1/4000 max shutter speed but it can automatically transition into an electronic shutter for faster shutter speeds. This is one reason why I can deal with my fuji for slow/static subjects. The 6D would destroy the fuji in many ways but I truly want 1/8000 max shutter for all of my dslr's.

At this moment in time the 5dmk3 will provide more avenue's as the skill set develops even more into fast moving subjects. The 5d3 is so good that it can be a camera that will last for many years as far as performance is concerned. The 6D was crippled straight out of the gates with the basic AF system and 1/4000 max shutter speed (fine for ND filter use/landscape/cityscap​e). The 6d has been introduced as an introductory FF by Canon.

This is not about disrespecting the 6d. This is basing it on the designed specifications. Different tools have different applications that are more suited for different types of photography. In this particular case the 5dmk3 can do exactly what the 6D can do but a lot more .

If the OP never ever ventures into fast action requirements the 6d would fit like a glove. For professional purposes I just dont like the idea of not having dual memory cards in this age of technology. I think Sony is nuts not to incorporate such an important feature.

People always act like the 1/4000s max shutter speed is such a horrible limitation... give me a break. How often do you actually need to shoot above 1/4000s? I can say I personally hardly ever need to go beyond that, and when I do the shot would look pretty much identical if I'd just drop the aperture by one stop or bring it down a stop in post (yes, the 6D does that just fine in my experience).

As for the dual card slots; I've never had a card fail, nor have I even ever known another photographer who has had a card fail... so it's not really a surprise to me that Canon/Sony and many other manufacturers aren't adding it to most of their cameras.


Fuji X-Pro2 // Fuji X-T1 // Fuji X-100T // XF 18mm f2 // XF 35mm f1.4 // XF 60mm f2.4 // Rokinon 12mm f2 // Rokinon 21mm f1.4 // XF 18-55mm f/2.8-4 // XF 55-200mm f3.5-4.8 // Rokinon 85mm f1.4 // Zhonghi Lensturbo ii // Various adapted MF lenses
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5D mk 3 or 6D for first full frame
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