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FORUMS Canon Cameras, Lenses & Accessories Canon EOS Digital Cameras
Thread started 17 Oct 2016 (Monday) 21:15
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canon camera with best ISO

 
Bassat
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Oct 24, 2016 16:55 |  #31

CyberDyneSystems wrote in post #18165753 (external link)
I disagree, Mr Spock would have merely applied the very thing that he is best know for.

Logic.

I'm not following you, Jake. You said you disagree. Then you state that Mr. Spock would have been logical. That is what I said. Mr. Spock would never have claimed that how a hammer behaved after he let it go implied anything about the physics of its environment. There are simply too many unconsidered variables in the original statement for it to have ANY logic. A logical Mr. Spock would never have uttered that statement. As TeamSpeed says, he did utter the statement. Quite illogical.


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runninmann
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Oct 24, 2016 16:55 |  #32

runninmann wrote in post #18160512 (external link)
Neilyb, I don't understand how the answers to any of these questions are relevant to the OP's question. Which Canon camera has the best high ISO performance?

CyberDyneSystems wrote in post #18165759 (external link)
This thread is killing me. lol!

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1Dx2, 5D4, 1Dx, 6D and so on.

I think we're in the minority on that issue. ;-)a


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CyberDyneSystems
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Oct 24, 2016 17:11 |  #33

Bassat wrote in post #18165764 (external link)
I'm not following you, Jake. You said you disagree. Then you state that Mr. Spock would have been logical. That is what I said. Mr. Spock would never have claimed that how a hammer behaved after he let it go implied anything about the physics of its environment. There are simply too many unconsidered variables in the original statement for it to have ANY logic. A logical Mr. Spock would never have uttered that statement. As TeamSpeed says, he did utter the statement. Quite illogical.


Science (and physics) require empirical data, scientific proof, experiments and tests.

Logic does not. Logic requires assumptions based on our own understanding.


A logical proof proceeds from basic assumptions (called axioms and rules of logic) to produce valid conclusions which are inevitable consequences of the assumptions.

Spock DID utter that statement!
What Spock did say is 100% of the empirical data we have on which to base any theory, or for that matter, Logical proof, of how Spock would behave.

No one knows better than Spock what he would say.

Your logic is flawed. ;)

The character you are describing is one that would never make it out of the lab, it is not Spock.


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Bassat
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Oct 24, 2016 18:05 |  #34

CyberDyneSystems wrote in post #18165781 (external link)
Science (and physics) require empirical data, scientific proof, experiments and tests.

Logic does not. Logic requires assumptions based on our own understanding.

A logical proof proceeds from basic assumptions (called axioms and rules of logic) to produce valid conclusions which are inevitable consequences of the assumptions.

Spock DID utter that statement!
What Spock did say is 100% of the empirical data we have on which to base any theory, or for that matter, Logical proof, of how Spock would behave.

No one knows better than Spock what he would say.

Your logic is flawed. ;)

The character you are describing is one that would never make it out of the lab, it is not Spock.

Concede. You certainly have me with that last line. :oops:


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TeamSpeed
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Oct 24, 2016 20:18 as a reply to post 18165727 |  #35

The original question was about high ISO, not DR. :)

bubba4 wrote in post #18159751 (external link)
what camera to look at that can get high ISO before the noise.. thanks


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TeamSpeed
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Oct 24, 2016 20:18 as a reply to post 18165762 |  #36

I think I and a few others have already called all that out. :)

The best cameras, overall, for noise would be, in somewhat particular order:

1DX2, 5D4, 1DX, 6D, 5D3, 7D2, 80D, 70D, 7D...

I guess we are in agreement. :D


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umphotography
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Oct 24, 2016 21:36 |  #37

TeamSpeed wrote in post #18165963 (external link)
I think I and a few others have already called all that out. :)



I guess we are in agreement. :D


This would be about right for Canon in my opinion. 6D and 5D3 are splitting hairs with the ISO in my opinion. 6D has better low light capture ability


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fordmondeo
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Oct 25, 2016 04:44 |  #38

Does all this mean I no longer have to fear toasters?


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BigAl007
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Oct 25, 2016 11:40 |  #39

TeamSpeed wrote in post #18165960 (external link)
The original question was about high ISO, not DR. :)

But since the question included the words before the noise, surely that is the definition of DR, at the specific ISO rating, so a comparison of the respective DR curves should provide a good answer to the question. As long as you are only using one test methodology for the comparison between bodies the exact placement of the noise floor shouldn't make much difference to the resulting rankings, although I could be interesting to see if changing the definition for the noise floor would make any difference to the overall rankings.

Or did I just not get your post, sometimes smileys leave me confused.

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TeamSpeed
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Oct 25, 2016 13:58 as a reply to BigAl007's post |  #40

It was a simple question (but no good answer) of which cameras have good high ISO. "Good" is subjective and also based on exposure by the user. Thus the smiley... However I don't see how DR matters when it comes to high ISO. You typically only use and look at DR at the lower ISO levels, preferably ISO 100. After ISO 1600 or so, DR probably doesn't come into play as much as just the general high ISO noise levels.


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Tom ­ Reichner
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Oct 25, 2016 14:37 as a reply to TeamSpeed's post |  #41

.

I agree, Team Speed.

Personally, for the type of photography I do, dynamic range doesn't matter much to me at all. Very seldom am I trying to create images that include very light areas as well as very dark areas - in most cases, I prefer to capture scenes in which almost everything in the frame is right around the mid-tone, without a lot of range from bright to dark.

In other words, I usually am trying to make images in which the histogram would represent a perfect bell curve, with no part of that curve extending to the left edge of the histogram, nor with any part of that curve extending to the right edge of the histogram.

However, getting images that have perfectly resolved fine detail with no grain at all, and very smooth blurred out backgrounds and/or foregrounds with no grain at all - now that is of extreme importance to me!

I think that maybe on some kind of scientific, technical level, ISO and DR may be inter-related. But as far as the actual aesthetic qualities that I enjoy when viewing a photo, they are completely different, unrelated qualities.

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Oct 25, 2016 15:09 |  #42

Love my SL1 (which is, I believe is a Canon DSLR released AFTER the 7D).

So, in response to one of the first responses above, that noise levels are fine from ISO 6400 and better on models released after the original 7D, I disagree strongly on the video front (which is maybe not what that poster was referencing).

The noise is so bad on the video at 6400 ISO in a somewhat dimly lit concert hall that it appears to be raining indoors.

Am I wrong in assuming that the noise would be the same on all recent Canon crop DSLRs at 6400 ISO in a dark forum?




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Oct 25, 2016 17:29 |  #43

TeamSpeed wrote in post #18166642 (external link)
It was a simple question (but no good answer) of which cameras have good high ISO. "Good" is subjective and also based on exposure by the user. Thus the smiley... However I don't see how DR matters when it comes to high ISO. You typically only use and look at DR at the lower ISO levels, preferably ISO 100. After ISO 1600 or so, DR probably doesn't come into play as much as just the general high ISO noise levels.

Tom Reichner wrote in post #18166677 (external link)
I agree, Team Speed.
I think that maybe on some kind of scientific, technical level, ISO and DR may be inter-related. But as far as the actual aesthetic qualities that I enjoy when viewing a photo, they are completely different, unrelated qualities.

DR is the number of stops from the white point (saturation point) to the darkest point at which the signal to noise ratio is such that I am still willing to accept it. There is always noise - at every ISO - and there always DR - at every ISO. There is a direct and simple relationship between DR and noise, where there is more noise it causes a shortening of the DR. So if I tell you camera A has a DR of 7 stops at ISO 6400 and camera B has a DR of only 5 stops at ISO 6400, you should be capable of immediately understanding that camera A has less noise at ISO 6400. Two different ways of saying what is actually the same thing.

Tom doesn't want noise to interfere with the display of a bird's plumage, and maybe in Washington all the birds are medium colored so that he can get his nice bell curve, but if he were to come to visit me and want to photograph a stork in flight during the golden hour - white body reflecting the setting sun, black wings and red legs and moving right along at a good clip - DR would suddenly become very important to him for it would govern his chances of neither clipping the white plumage nor covering the black wing feathers with yucky noise.

Everyone knows that the 1DX2 has a lower noise floor (less noise) that the 5D3. But if you didn't know that and I showed you this chart, would you figure it out?

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Tom ­ Reichner
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Oct 25, 2016 18:01 |  #44

.

tzalman wrote in post #18166817 (external link)
Everyone knows that the 1DX2 has a lower noise floor (less noise) that the 5D3. But if you didn't know that and I showed you this chart, would you figure it out?

thumbnailHosted photo: posted by tzalman in
./showthread.php?p=181​66817&i=i193495352
forum: Canon EOS Digital Cameras


Absolutely not!

Mathematical stuff, such as quantities represented in different ways on charts and graphs - are usually completely lost on me, as are left-brain deductions and explanations. But show me what something looks like - the pure aesthetics of something - and then you are speaking my language!



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TeamSpeed
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Oct 25, 2016 19:40 |  #45

Once again, the need and use for high ISO is often not remotely dependent on DR. DR is most important when shooting at lower ISOs and pulling up shadows and not have the electronically introduced noise infringing on the image, something Canon was very poor at until the 80D.

Let's not get into DR discussions because that is not what is being asked here. What is being asked here is "if I shoot at ISO 6400 for example, how do the bodies rank for least to most amount of noise in a normal zero'd exposure"... not "if I take a shot at high ISO, which cameras pull up shadows better", which isn't even a question many would ask, because at higher ISOs, your DR drops anyways.

If you want to get into a side discussion with somebody else like Tom that is fine, but to answer the OP, DR simply doesn't come into play.


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