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Thread started 10 Sep 2015 (Thursday) 07:02
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6D mkii rumor

 
Bassat
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Nov 18, 2016 07:35 |  #136

digirebelva wrote in post #18187806 (external link)
But you paid for ALL the points....the rest of the points generally suck, center point is fantastic no doubt...but when center point can't lock on (which does happen when I am doing RE photography), then most of the time, none of the other points can either, even when a point is sitting squarely on a area of high contrast/low contrast. My older 7d doesn't have the same issue.

I've been at this for awhile. I got by from early '70s until about 2009 with NO AF-points. No AF at all. No Av mode. No Tv mode. No 'modes' at all, beside "ON", and "OFF" (for the meter) Here's a good one: remember when BULB involved a cable with a lock on it? How about when flash required actual thinking?

One AF-point that has, so far, not been blamed for any focus misses in around 20,000 shots is just fine with me. I can't make the 6D work well in AI-Servo. So I bought a 1DIV. My gut feeling is that (for most shooters) if you are having difficulty getting a modern camera to focus, look in the mirror.

The AF on my 6Dc (<- am I the first to use that?) is just fine, thank you.


Tom

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mystik610
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Post has been edited over 1 year ago by mystik610.
Nov 18, 2016 07:52 |  #137

Bassat wrote in post #18187817 (external link)
I've been at this for awhile. I got by from early '70s until about 2009 with NO AF-points. No AF at all. No Av mode. No Tv mode. No 'modes' at all, beside "ON", and "OFF" (for the meter) Here's a good one: remember when BULB involved a cable with a lock on it? How about when flash required actual thinking?

One AF-point that has, so far, not been blamed for any focus misses in around 20,000 shots is just fine with me. I can't make the 6D work well in AI-Servo. So I bought a 1DIV. My gut feeling is that (for most shooters) if you are having difficulty getting a modern camera to focus, look in the mirror.

The AF on my 6Dc (<- am I the first to use that?) is just fine, thank you.

The problem is that modern photography is highly dependent on autofocus, and its a huge detriment when an automated system does not work as intended. There is no 'user error' when you select an AF point, and the camera either cannot achieve focus, or the focus is inaccurate....no amount of skill can overcome that.....Unless of course you want to undo 30 years of progress and go back to using manual focus. Go ahead and throw your cell phone out the window while you're at it because we got by fine with rotary phones just fine in the 70's right? Forget ABS in cars too, because if you don't know how to pump your brakes to avoid wheel lock up you should look in the mirror and not blame the car when you get into a wreck.

I actually some manual focus lenses and enjoy using MF so I get what you're saying, but the fact is that in the realm of photography in 2016, reliable autofocus is most often not a luxury....its a necessity. The fact that you own a 1DIV at all is proof of that.


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digirebelva
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Nov 18, 2016 07:59 as a reply to Bassat's post |  #138

I'm not exactly a newbie at this either...my dad's Canon AE1 got a workout...My point is as I have stated earlier, my newer 6d doesn't AF nearly as well as my older 7d once you have to move away from center point focus. Try shooting RE photography where an entire wall is the same color (and you don't shoot ultra freaking wide) and you will understand my frustration with the outer points. Can I focus and recompose, sure, if you don't mind rotating the camera a few feet back to where it needs to be after you lock focus. Which can be an issue with 2 point perspective. When it happens on my 7d, I simply shift focus points and good to go. On my 6d, it's a hit/miss scenario when the outer points wont lock on to areas of high/low contrast. I have to shift to manual focus...on the 6d....have never had to do that with my 7d in the same situations. So no, it not the user in this case..
Ive said on here before, the 6d center point is outstanding...but I paid to be able to use ALL the points. If you choose never to use the outer points, that's your choice, but it should be a personal choice, not one of necessity because of performance.


EOS 6d, 7dMKII, Tokina 11-16, Tokina 16-28, Sigma 70-200mm F/2.8, Sigma 17-50 F/2.8, Canon 24-70mm F/2.8L, Canon 70-200 F/2.8L, Mixed Speedlites and other stuff.

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Bassat
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Nov 18, 2016 08:31 |  #139

mystik610 wrote in post #18187824 (external link)
The problem is that modern photography is highly dependent on autofocus, and its a huge detriment when an automated system does not work as intended. There is no 'user error' when you select an AF point, and the camera either cannot achieve focus, or the focus is inaccurate....no amount of skill can overcome that.....Unless of course you want to undo 30 years of progress and go back to using manual focus. Go ahead and throw your cell phone out the window while you're at it because we got by fine with rotary phones just fine in the 70's right? Forget ABS in cars too, because if you don't know how to pump your brakes to avoid wheel lock up you should look in the mirror and not blame the car when you get into a wreck.

I actually some manual focus lenses and enjoy using MF so I get what you're saying, but the fact is that in the realm of photography in 2016, reliable autofocus is most often not a luxury....its a necessity. The fact that you own a 1DIV at all is proof of that.

Wow! I am stunned. Modern photography is NOT dependent on AF. Modern PHOTOGRAPHERS are. BIG, REALLY EF(now that is funny!)-ING HUGE, difference. Using manual focus lenses is not undoing progress, it is exploring your hobby and finding joy in the basics. Want to learn the effect of aperture on your results? Shoot full manual for a day. You don't even need to buy MF lenses; all my Canon's have an AF/MF switch right there on the side.

And you continue with the "I'm dependent on technology" theme with your cell phone analogy. I don't carry one. I have no desire to provide the rest of the world access to me. My employer told me that I have to provide a cell phone number. I did. Supervisor called me ONCE. I did not answer. Way too many people think the cell phone is a valid way to invade someone else's privacy. I won't play. I answer my phone when my wife/daughter call. Everyone else can GFT.

And you still continue with your dependency on all things modern. ABS is really good on snow/ice and in panic situations. ABS is not necessary. I still drive a '93 F150 w/o ABS - in snow, ice, and anywhere else I need to drive. I learned how to drive when it was still something kids looked forward to as a right of passage, not an opportunity to eat/read/put on make-up and talk/text on a cell phone. I've wrecked two cars in the last 20 years. Both had ABS.

And you persist with this notion. I bought a 1DIV so I could use AF to track my grandson on the playing field. The 1DIV is miles better at it than the 6D. I shot soccer in the '70s with a manual everything camera. The AF on my 1DIV is good, really good, but it is not a necessity. Even the 1DIV gets confused while shooting action at 400mm. If I were focusing by hand, I may get a lot fewer shots, but I'll never automatically give up and focus on the stands on the other side of the field.

Modernity and progress are fine. I'm all for both. I like living in a house, with running water, and having a stove and refrigerator, and a washer and dryer. None of that means I can't feed and shelter myself without them. Same goes for photography.


Tom

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Bassat
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Nov 18, 2016 08:38 |  #140

digirebelva wrote in post #18187831 (external link)
I'm not exactly a newbie at this either...my dad's Canon AE1 got a workout...My point is as I have stated earlier, my newer 6d doesn't AF nearly as well as my older 7d once you have to move away from center point focus. Try shooting RE photography where an entire wall is the same color (and you don't shoot ultra freaking wide) and you will understand my frustration with the outer points. Can I focus and recompose, sure, if you don't mind rotating the camera a few feet back to where it needs to be after you lock focus. Which can be an issue with 2 point perspective. When it happens on my 7d, I simply shift focus points and good to go. On my 6d, it's a hit/miss scenario when the outer points wont lock on to areas of high/low contrast. I have to shift to manual focus...on the 6d....have never had to do that with my 7d in the same situations. So no, it not the user in this case..
Ive said on here before, the 6d center point is outstanding...but I paid to be able to use ALL the points. If you choose never to use the outer points, that's your choice, but it should be a personal choice, not one of necessity because of performance.

You paid for a camera with (basically) crippled AF. You knew that when you bought it. I believe you have to go back to the 500D/T1i (maybe 550D/T2i) to find another Canon camera w/o all cross points. Pretty sure the 50D was all cross. Had I needed AF over IQ, I would have purchased the 1DIV first. Canon sold me a bargain-basement priced full frame camera in 2014. So far, I am still very happy with it. When I needed something else, I bought it.

Do you fold up sheets of plywood and stuff them in your Ford Fusion, or do you by an F150? Right tool for the job, and all that.


Tom

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mystik610
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Post has been edited over 1 year ago by mystik610.
Nov 18, 2016 08:54 |  #141

Bassat wrote in post #18187870 (external link)
Wow! I am stunned. Modern photography is NOT dependent on AF. Modern PHOTOGRAPHERS are. BIG, REALLY EF(now that is funny!)-ING HUGE, difference. Using manual focus lenses is not undoing progress, it is exploring your hobby and finding joy in the basics. Want to learn the effect of aperture on your results? Shoot full manual for a day. You don't even need to buy MF lenses; all my Canon's have an AF/MF switch right there on the side.

And you continue with the "I'm dependent on technology" theme with your cell phone analogy. I don't carry one. I have no desire to provide the rest of the world access to me. My employer told me that I have to provide a cell phone number. I did. Supervisor called me ONCE. I did not answer. Way too many people think the cell phone is a valid way to invade someone else's privacy. I won't play. I answer my phone when my wife/daughter call. Everyone else can GFT.

And you still continue with your dependency on all things modern. ABS is really good on snow/ice and in panic situations. ABS is not necessary. I still drive a '93 F150 w/o ABS - in snow, ice, and anywhere else I need to drive. I learned how to drive when it was still something kids looked forward to as a right of passage, not an opportunity to eat/read/put on make-up and talk/text on a cell phone. I've wrecked two cars in the last 20 years. Both had ABS.

And you persist with this notion. I bought a 1DIV so I could use AF to track my grandson on the playing field. The 1DIV is miles better at it than the 6D. I shot soccer in the '70s with a manual everything camera. The AF on my 1DIV is good, really good, but it is not a necessity. Even the 1DIV gets confused while shooting action at 400mm. If I were focusing by hand, I may get a lot fewer shots, but I'll never automatically give up and focus on the stands on the other side of the field.

Modernity and progress are fine. I'm all for both. I like living in a house, with running water, and having a stove and refrigerator, and a washer and dryer. None of that means I can't feed and shelter myself without them. Same goes for photography.

I shoot MF all the time so I get what you're saying, but there's a time and place when using AF is the best course of action to get the job done right. i.e., you can't really admonish a wedding photographer for depending on AF to capture a fleeting key moment that you he/she has one opportunity to catch.

The only point that I'm making is that the expectations for a product are different now than they were 30 years ago, and its a busted logic to say that "hey this was fine in 70's, why is everyone complaining about it now". We're talking about a camera that will cost over $1,500+, so yes there is an expectation of what a modern camera like that is supposed to do when you consider competitive products and the needs of the people using them in this day and age.


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FarmerTed1971
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Nov 18, 2016 08:56 |  #142

Still love my 6D... it does 90% of what I need and when it's not the best tool I switch to the 7D2.

One body to rule them all is a myth, unless you have the coin for a 1Dx2 and even then I'm sure you'll find some people that are not even satisfied.


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Bassat
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Nov 18, 2016 08:57 |  #143

Ok, since this is a 6D2 thread, please allow me to state what I'd like in a 6D2. First off, don't make my camera more expensive by jazzing up the AF, 11 cross-type points would be enough improvement. The current model has killer AF, for what I do.

a.) Custom functions to select min/max shutter speed, aperture, ISO from any setting the camera can do.
b.) AF-linked Spot meter (would likely require cross points to be useful).
c.) Save my raws in HDR.
d.) Ambient and flash metering in the VF.
e.) 1/250 sync
f.) 1/8000 shutter
g.) full 24x36 sensor (I know its close. It just bugs me.)
h.) another C memory
i.) 80D DPAF/video capabilities
j.) f/8 AF on the center point, at least

Things I don't need:
7D2/5D3/1Dx AF.
2 card slots
GPS, WIFI
Scene modes
In-camera developing (though I do use the HDR sometimes)


Tom

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FarmerTed1971
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Nov 18, 2016 08:58 |  #144

The 6D2 will have better AF points... and if Canon is stupid enough to release it without then they will have wasted a lot of $$$ bringing something to market that will not compete.


Getting better at this - Fuji Xt-2 - Fuji X-Pro2 - 18-55 - 35 f2 WR - 50-140 - 6D - 135L - 70-200 f4L IS - 600EX-RT x2 - ST-E3-RT - flickr (external link) - www.scottaticephoto.co​m (external link)

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FarmerTed1971
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Nov 18, 2016 09:01 |  #145

If they DO include two SD card slots you'll see tons of these being used for weddings.
Also I do like GPS and WIFI and I think ALL modern cameras should have them.


Getting better at this - Fuji Xt-2 - Fuji X-Pro2 - 18-55 - 35 f2 WR - 50-140 - 6D - 135L - 70-200 f4L IS - 600EX-RT x2 - ST-E3-RT - flickr (external link) - www.scottaticephoto.co​m (external link)

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Bassat
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Nov 18, 2016 09:01 |  #146

mystik610 wrote in post #18187893 (external link)
I shoot MF all the time so I get what you're saying, but there's a time and place when using AF is the best course of action to get the job done right. i.e., you can't really admonish a wedding photographer for depending on AF to capture a fleeting key moment that you he/she has one opportunity to catch.

The only point that I'm making is that the expectations for a product are different now than they were 30 years ago, and its a busted logic to say that "hey this was fine in 70's, why is everyone complaining about it now". We're talking about a camera that will cost over $1,500+, so yes there is an expectation of what a modern camera like that is supposed to do when you consider competitive products and the needs of the people using them in this day and age.

There is also a thing called buying the right tool for the job. If you knew you needed killer AI-Servo to start with, would the 6D have been your first choice? Do you just have one screw-driver and expect it to work on any screw you happen to encounter?


Tom

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digirebelva
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Nov 18, 2016 09:04 as a reply to Bassat's post |  #147

"You paid for a camera with (basically) crippled AF. You knew that when you bought it"

Assume much...Actually no, I didn't...I don't remember there being anything in any documentation from anyone that stated that little detail...Care to point me to that information...? back in 2013...

There was no reason other than financial, for Canon to cripple the outer points that badly. I know they didn't want to gut sales of the more expensive (read higher profit margin) 5d MKIII if the 6d had the same focusing ability, but come on...

I don't expect the camera to be all things to all people, I do understand business and marketing and the need to make a profit....But seriously, were talking non-moving interior objects here..not fast action sports. A roughly $1500+- piece of equipment should be able to handle that, wouldn't you think?.


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FarmerTed1971
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Nov 18, 2016 09:12 |  #148

Seems strange. If you are having problems locking in on non-moving interior objects then perhaps your camera is defective, your technique is bad or there is no contrast to the subject. I've had no such problems with my 6D.


Getting better at this - Fuji Xt-2 - Fuji X-Pro2 - 18-55 - 35 f2 WR - 50-140 - 6D - 135L - 70-200 f4L IS - 600EX-RT x2 - ST-E3-RT - flickr (external link) - www.scottaticephoto.co​m (external link)

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Bassat
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Nov 18, 2016 09:14 as a reply to digirebelva's post |  #149

Agreed, for the most part. We all use our tools differently, for different purposes. Canon does the best they can to put out mass-appeal products. They can't hit everyone's expectations every time. I am pretty happy with my 6D as is. I realize that some folks aren't. It's all good.


Tom

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mystik610
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Post has been edited over 1 year ago by mystik610.
Nov 18, 2016 09:21 |  #150

Bassat wrote in post #18187902 (external link)
There is also a thing called buying the right tool for the job. If you knew you needed killer AI-Servo to start with, would the 6D have been your first choice? Do you just have one screw-driver and expect it to work on any screw you happen to encounter?

I don't own a 6D. I don't own a single Canon camera any more, so I have no horse in this race.

I did own a 5DII many years ago (when I shot weddings regularly) and the fact that the outer points were unreliable was a huge detriment.....you now because the rule of thirds is a thing and focusing in the corners matters. AI servo performance is not the issue. The ability to actually rely on the AF points outside of the center is. So I can empathize with what the 6D guys here are saying because I faced the same issues with the 5DII.

I did eventually upgrade to the 5DIII specially the 5DII corners points suck, but always felt that it was overkill for my uses. I needed reliable corner points, but did not need the 5DIII tracking system. The problem is that you're paying 5DIII prices for an AF tracking system that you may not need, and the only other alternative is the 6D with its unreliable corner AF points.


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α7ʀII - RX1ʀII - α7ʀIII
Zeiss Loxia 21 - Canon 24-70 2.8LII - Sony/Zeiss 35 f1.4 ZA - 85GM - Sigma 135 f1.8 ART - Sony 70-200GM

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