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FORUMS General Gear Talk Flash and Studio Lighting
Thread started 11 Jan 2011 (Tuesday) 14:25
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bobbyz
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Post has been edited 3 months ago by bobbyz.
Mar 12, 2017 15:53 |  #10636

Alveric wrote in post #18299014 (external link)
As long as the values are not 255 AFTER processing, it's not overexposed.

That is what I thought so how do you guys says my shot was over-exposed? I assume LR will say the same numbers if on my computer and yours. ;-)a


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Mindeater
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Mar 12, 2017 16:44 |  #10637

bobbyz wrote in post #18299035 (external link)
That is what I thought so how do you guys says my shot was over-exposed? I assume LR will say the same numbers if on my computer and yours. ;-)a

I don't think looking at RGB values to determine whether an image is overexposed should be used as an out right rule. Overexposure is much more a subjective property, and in portraiture is often characterised by the highlights being blown out. It doesn't necessarily follow that they would reach a value of 255, showing they were clipped by the sensor.

The image being discussed does look a little overexposed, to me, looking as though some of the detail has been lost in the highlights.




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Pippan
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Post has been last edited 3 months ago by Pippan. 2 edits done in total.
Mar 12, 2017 17:52 |  #10638

Mindeater wrote in post #18299082 (external link)
I don't think looking at RGB values to determine whether an image is overexposed should be used as an out right rule. Overexposure is much more a subjective property, and in portraiture is often characterised by the highlights being blown out. It doesn't necessarily follow that they would reach a value of 255, showing they were clipped by the sensor.

The image being discussed does look a little overexposed, to me, looking as though some of the detail has been lost in the highlights.

If highlights were not clipped at capture, the sensor has not been overexposed and detail is there to be brought out. If you think it's been processed to look too bright or light, that's another thing but it's not over-exposure. Some people call it high-key.




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Alveric
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Mar 12, 2017 17:58 |  #10639

Pippan wrote in post #18299168 (external link)
If highlights were not clipped at capture, the sensor has not been overexposed and detail is there to be brought out. If you think it's been processed to look too bright or light, that's another thing but it's not over-exposure. Some people call it high-key.

Precisely.


'The success of the second-rate is deplorable in itself; but it is more deplorably in that it very often obscures the genuine masterpiece. If the crowd runs after the false, it must neglect the true.' —Arthur Machen
Why 'The Histogram' Sux (external link)

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bobbyz
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Mar 12, 2017 21:36 |  #10640

Pippan wrote in post #18299168 (external link)
If highlights were not clipped at capture, the sensor has not been overexposed and detail is there to be brought out. If you think it's been processed to look too bright or light, that's another thing but it's not over-exposure. Some people call it high-key.

Yup. Problem I think is that too many folks have their displays set to high brightness where shots like I posted look over-exposed. Usually I don't go that high but I am mostly on little more exposure than typical folks. Helps when shooting female subjects IMHO.


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dmward
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Joined Jun 2009
Metro Chicago
Post has been edited 3 months ago by dmward.
Mar 12, 2017 21:53 |  #10641

bobbyz wrote in post #18298900 (external link)
Just curious, how do you define over-exposed? What kind of R/G/B numbers you guys looking at the face, forehead. Maybe show some sample shots. Look at this shot from Peter. Isn't it similar to what I posted.

http://pdnpulse.pdnonl​ine.com ...ps-for-men-and-women.html (external link)

Bobby,
Your headshot isn't over exposed.
The higher key look for women gives their skin a porcelain look that Hurley, Grimes and a lot of other headshot, glamour and portrait photographers strive for with women. One visual key for me, when viewing these images, is the deep black in the pupil and some midtone contrast in the hair with the smooth highlights and skin tones that are higher value. Normal northern European skin is usually considered to be about 75% in Lightroom. Getting it up to mid to high 8X% works. That still leaves some room for highlights. Its also important, in my view, to keep the red and magenta tones under control.

Like this:

IMAGE: http://dmwfotos.com/iibd/wp-content/gallery/denise/DMWA2593.jpg

David | Sharing my Insights, Knowledge & Experience (external link) | dmwfotos website (external link)

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dmward
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Mar 12, 2017 22:14 |  #10642

Pippan wrote in post #18299168 (external link)
If highlights were not clipped at capture, the sensor has not been overexposed and detail is there to be brought out. If you think it's been processed to look too bright or light, that's another thing but it's not over-exposure. Some people call it high-key.

Over exposure is not simply a matter of saturating a photosite with photons.
The Zone system, and Ansel Adams tonal control of his landscapes is probably as good a lesson about exposure and tonal control as there is in photography.

Tonal control is about getting every tonal value in an image where one wants it for creative intent.
The range we have available is from white with detail (93 or so % in LR) to black with detail (12% or so)
Its the phototgrapher's artistic choice for placing the skin along the tone curve.

IMAGE: http://dmwfotos.com/iibd/wp-content/gallery/home-p/untitled-0841-3.jpg

HERE (external link) is another image (NSFW), same lighting different processing, less high key.

Both images the histogram is well within the dynamic range of the camera.

David | Sharing my Insights, Knowledge & Experience (external link) | dmwfotos website (external link)

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Scatterbrained
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Mar 13, 2017 03:41 |  #10643

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[IMAGE'S LINK: https://flic.kr/p/SFzp​QB] (external link)Kenneth Cole New York: Copper Watch (external link) by tltichy (external link), on Flickr

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riffster
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Mar 13, 2017 10:09 |  #10644

Some cigars & guns.

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71sbeetle
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Mar 13, 2017 17:12 |  #10645

Thanks again for the tips on the C-stand (had never used them before)
Here is another shot I did for www.magstang.com (external link) they should have a new website coming soon, very impressive car!

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Tc202
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Mar 13, 2017 20:31 |  #10646

arthurbikemad wrote in post #18298602 (external link)
Where was the flash? :)


Don't worry it was still in the bag :-)


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waterrockets
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Mar 21, 2017 16:33 |  #10647

Alveric wrote in post #18299014 (external link)
As long as the values are not 255 AFTER processing, it's not overexposed.

That's not true. Overexposing happens during the capture, not during post processing. In post, you can drag the ceiling down below 255, and it just makes all of the overexposed portions gray. They're still overexposed though.


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Alveric
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Post has been last edited 3 months ago by Alveric. 2 edits done in total.
Mar 21, 2017 19:42 |  #10648

waterrockets wrote in post #18307215 (external link)
That's not true. Overexposing happens during the capture, not during post processing. In post, you can drag the ceiling down below 255, and it just makes all of the overexposed portions gray. They're still overexposed though.

Please look at (and maybe quote as well) the context of the question I answered with that. Yes, I agree that proper exposure and/or exposure errors happen at the time of capture. Yet you can still end up with an 'overexposed' end product by blowing out the values in post-processing. Some might call it 'overcooking', but it's still 'post-post-processing overexposure' all the same.

See for yourself:

This is the original image with no adjustments applied, other than the WB correction and the profile for the camera (note the RBG and overall brightness values at the main highlight):

IMAGE: http://diamantstudios.ca/Gemeines/Bilder/Examples/Post_overexposure--001.jpg

This is the image with the final post-processing applied (again, note the values in the red square –they have gone up by a few units but they're not blown out, although the red channel is pushing it):
IMAGE: http://diamantstudios.ca/Gemeines/Bilder/Examples/Post_overexposure--002.jpg

And this is what happens with aggressive post-processing –in this case a strong contrast curve (the red channel is blown out, as is the overall brightness, and the green and blue channels would probably print out as blown out as well, what with them being one point shy of 255):
IMAGE: http://diamantstudios.ca/Gemeines/Bilder/Examples/Post_overexposure--003.jpg

Again, the image was properly exposed at the time of capture, but in the last example 'twas nuked during post-processing. THAT is what I was talking about: an image that will have spots blown out (values beyond 255 RBG/100% CMYK) when it's output –especially for print, since paper has a lower dynamic range than screens.

'The success of the second-rate is deplorable in itself; but it is more deplorably in that it very often obscures the genuine masterpiece. If the crowd runs after the false, it must neglect the true.' —Arthur Machen
Why 'The Histogram' Sux (external link)

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FJ ­ LOVE
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barrie ont. ca
Mar 21, 2017 20:34 |  #10649

dmward wrote in post #18299376 (external link)
Bobby,
Your headshot isn't over exposed.
The higher key look for women gives their skin a porcelain look that Hurley, Grimes and a lot of other headshot, glamour and portrait photographers strive for with women. One visual key for me, when viewing these images, is the deep black in the pupil and some midtone contrast in the hair with the smooth highlights and skin tones that are higher value. Normal northern European skin is usually considered to be about 75% in Lightroom. Getting it up to mid to high 8X% works. That still leaves some room for highlights. Its also important, in my view, to keep the red and magenta tones under control.

Like this:

QUOTED IMAGE

not digging it David, the skin looks over exposed to me regardless of what your histogram says, this is not the look I see in fashion and glam magazines, sometimes we need to forget what Peter Hurley does and please ourselves ;-)a


DILLIGAF about your bicycle or your gear

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dmward
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Joined Jun 2009
Metro Chicago
Mar 21, 2017 22:04 |  #10650

FJ LOVE wrote in post #18307474 (external link)
not digging it David, the skin looks over exposed to me regardless of what your histogram says, this is not the look I see in fashion and glam magazines, sometimes we need to forget what Peter Hurley does and please ourselves ;-)a

To each their own.
My point is that there is a style that wants skin tones to be bright.


David | Sharing my Insights, Knowledge & Experience (external link) | dmwfotos website (external link)

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