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FORUMS Photography Talk by Genre Macro Talk
Thread started 15 Mar 2017 (Wednesday) 11:20
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Can a Canon lens + camera match this?

 
davholla
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Mar 15, 2017 11:20 |  #1

I am a great fan of looking at other people's photos on flickr.
This photo to me with a GX80 and Olympus 60 mm Macro + Raynox 250 using panasonic's post focus seems better than anything anyone can do with a Canon lens what do people think? How would you do this?
https://www.flickr.com ...imowl/33328567781/i​n/feed (external link)




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joedlh
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Mar 15, 2017 11:31 |  #2

I think one needs to disassociate the capturing of a unique moment from the technical excellence of a shot. Capturing a moment has little to do with what you happened to have in your hands when you caught it. You have a great moment here.

One positive technical aspect is that the depth of field is a bit deeper than you'd easily get with a macro on a camera with a larger sensor. So the small sensor could be seen as an advantage. I'm not sure I could say the same if I wanted to print it at 16x20.

As for the technical aspects, the shot has flat contrast. I don't see anything that would suggest to me that I couldn't get it with my Canon 40D and Canon 100mm macro. My general sense is that I could get a sharper image.


Joe
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Scrumhalf
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Mar 15, 2017 11:34 |  #3

It's a focus stack according to the description. Why would this not be doable on Canon?


Sam
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davholla
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Mar 15, 2017 11:50 |  #4

Scrumhalf wrote in post #18301666 (external link)
It's a focus stack according to the description. Why would this not be doable on Canon?

Well it is done by post focus which is a technology that makes focus stacks a lot easier (particularly useful for action shots) so something that Canon doesn't have
https://www.dpreview.c​om ...e-focus-selection-feature (external link)




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davholla
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Mar 15, 2017 11:53 |  #5

joedlh wrote in post #18301661 (external link)
I think one needs to disassociate the capturing of a unique moment from the technical excellence of a shot. Capturing a moment has little to do with what you happened to have in your hands when you caught it. You have a great moment here.

One positive technical aspect is that the depth of field is a bit deeper than you'd easily get with a macro on a camera with a larger sensor. So the small sensor could be seen as an advantage. I'm not sure I could say the same if I wanted to print it at 16x20.

As for the technical aspects, the shot has flat contrast. I don't see anything that would suggest to me that I couldn't get it with my Canon 40D and Canon 100mm macro. My general sense is that I could get a sharper image.

Sadly I didn't catch it myself. Here is a photo I got with my MPE-65 of arthropods moving but I would find hard to get several shots because there is not the same process - or perhaps I should have tried a different light source from my flash* and taken several shots quickly

IMAGE: https://c1.staticflickr.com/6/5505/31477747996_14a36a9647_b.jpg
[IMAGE'S LINK: https://flic.kr/p/PXzF​P3] (external link)EF7A0230Threeamigos_01 (external link) by davholla2002 (external link), on Flickr

*not that easy.



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Wilt
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Mar 15, 2017 11:59 |  #6

joedlh wrote in post #18301661 (external link)
One positive technical aspect is that the depth of field is a bit deeper than you'd easily get with a macro on a camera with a larger sensor. So the small sensor could be seen as an advantage. I'm not sure I could say the same if I wanted to print it at 16x20.

Let us assume a 24mm tall object in the frame of the FF format vs. the 4/3 format...

  • FF (50mm f/8) would capture an area 24x36mm, or it could photograph the macro subject at 1:1 magnification
  • 4/3 format (25mm f/8) would capture an area 13x17.3mm, or it would photograph the same macro subject at 13/24ths or 0.54x


...so the FF image at original size has DOF zone of 1.02mm, and the 4/3 format original size image has DOF zone of 1.66mm

But if both images were enlarged to 16x24" print size, the object is at same final magnification, (with FF image enlarged by 16.9x and the 4/3 format image enlarged by 31.3x) so the DOF in print is THE SAME.

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joedlh
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Mar 15, 2017 12:15 as a reply to Wilt's post |  #7

My mistake. I didn't check out the camera specs. I didn't realize it was a 4/3 sensor.

I've not heard of post focus technology. Dpreview (external link) has an explanation. The camera shoots a 4K video of 30 frames in the space of 1 second with a gradual change in focus point. My 7Dii can't do that. The original idea was to provide casual shooters with an opportunity to pick the shot that had the best focus. I can see the advantage for focus-stacking. However, you're still dealing with what amounts to a 1 second exposure. So there is a limitation to using it with very fast subjects. The review also said that a 1.45 crop is applied to the sensor. I'll leave better minds to explore the ramifications of that.


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davholla
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Mar 15, 2017 12:29 |  #8

joedlh wrote in post #18301695 (external link)
My mistake. I didn't check out the camera specs. I didn't realize it was a 4/3 sensor.

I've not heard of post focus technology. Dpreview (external link) has an explanation. The camera shoots a 4K video of 30 frames in the space of 1 second with a gradual change in focus point. My 7Dii can't do that. The original idea was to provide casual shooters with an opportunity to pick the shot that had the best focus. I can see the advantage for focus-stacking. However, you're still dealing with what amounts to a 1 second exposure. So there is a limitation to using it with very fast subjects. The review also said that a 1.45 crop is applied to the sensor. I'll leave better minds to explore the ramifications of that.

Don't you think the technology looks quite good? Sadly with the MPE 65 mm it would never be possible.




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Nogo
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Mar 15, 2017 12:44 |  #9

davholla wrote in post #18301705 (external link)
Sadly with the MPE 65 mm it would never be possible.

This could be done with any macro lens. All it would take is for someone to build a focusing rail with a variable speed stepping motor to turn the nobs at the correct timing.


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gjl711
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Mar 15, 2017 12:44 |  #10

davholla wrote in post #18301705 (external link)
Don't you think the technology looks quite good? Sadly with the MPE 65 mm it would never be possible.

Well, that isn't totally true. Using an automated rail The same technique can be used although it would be a bit slower.


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davholla
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Mar 15, 2017 12:47 |  #11

gjl711 wrote in post #18301717 (external link)
Well, that isn't totally true. Using an automated rail The same technique can be used although it would be a bit slower.

Good point I should have said without a rail it would not be possible. Of course if you can obtain x without a rail for one system and with a rail with the other it is not really comparable bearing in mind the cost in time and money of using the rail.




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mfturner
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Mar 15, 2017 13:44 |  #12

If this used 4k video, wouldn't the resolution be limited to something like 8mpx? That may be plenty for a lot of uses, I am just asking to see if I understand correctly...




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davholla
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Mar 15, 2017 14:07 |  #13

mfturner wrote in post #18301759 (external link)
If this used 4k video, wouldn't the resolution be limited to something like 8mpx? That may be plenty for a lot of uses, I am just asking to see if I understand correctly...

Yes that is correct.




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joedlh
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Mar 15, 2017 14:20 |  #14

davholla wrote in post #18301705 (external link)
Don't you think the technology looks quite good? Sadly with the MPE 65 mm it would never be possible.

I would put it in the category of "cool but not especially useful". The only use for me personally would be focus stacking. For that, I don't need 30 exposures. The most I have ever used was 11 and that was overkill. 8mp doesn't look great next to the 20mp from a 7Dii. I admit that the speed would be practical for a flighty subject like a dragon fly at rest. It would be more impressive if it had more manual control, like not trying to get the background in focus and selecting the number of shots. For example, 15 shots in a half second or 7 in 1/4 second would be more appropriate for that dragon fly if the camera could ignore the background.


Joe
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Editing ok

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gjl711
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Mar 15, 2017 14:31 |  #15

joedlh wrote in post #18301786 (external link)
I would put it in the category of "cool but not especially useful". The only use for me personally would be focus stacking. For that, I don't need 30 exposures. The most I have ever used was 11 and that was overkill. 8mp doesn't look great next to the 20mp from a 7Dii. I admit that the speed would be practical for a flighty subject like a dragon fly at rest. It would be more impressive if it had more manual control, like not trying to get the background in focus and selecting the number of shots. For example, 15 shots in a half second or 7 in 1/4 second would be more appropriate for that dragon fly if the camera could ignore the background.

Been Youtubing this feature and I got to say, this looks quite useful. I could have used it the weekend for my trip to the zoo. While it works well for focus stacking it seems that the more common and more powerful use would be in general photography. Never miss focus ever again or even select multiple images from the same shot. I hate to get a great picture only to find that the subjects ear lobes are in perfect focus while their eyes are not.
https://www.youtube.co​m/watch?v=zukYhBihj80 (external link)


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Can a Canon lens + camera match this?
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