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FORUMS Post Processing, Marketing & Presenting Photos RAW, Post Processing & Printing
Thread started 18 Mar 2017 (Saturday) 13:51
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Optimum Sharpening for 5DsR

 
I ­ Simonius
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Mar 18, 2017 13:51 |  #1

What have people found to be their best practice for PRINTING with 5DsR files, either from Lightroom (LR) or photoshop (Ps)

I am looking for ways to experiment to get highest acutance (assuming that's the right term). I.e. detail is all well and good but I also want the overall impression of sharpness, high acutance, without crunchiness, when looking at a print


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ashleykaryl
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Post has been edited 9 months ago by ashleykaryl.
Mar 18, 2017 15:49 |  #2

Print sharpening is a very individual choice, based on the actual image and personal preference. I don't think it's one of those areas where one glove fits all. Indeed, I am far from convinced that looking sharper is always better for the very same reasons.

If you are looking for a starting point though you could always grab the free Nik collection that includes sharpeners. https://www.google.com​/nikcollection/ (external link)


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agedbriar
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Mar 18, 2017 16:14 |  #3

If detail is good but you are still missing the impression of (clean) sharpness, perhaps you need some added clarity.

Topaz Clarity gives you a lot of control and good results without artifacts.

http://www.topazlabs.c​om/clarity (external link)




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I ­ Simonius
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Mar 18, 2017 17:11 |  #4

ashleykaryl wrote in post #18304460 (external link)
Print sharpening is a very individual choice, based on the actual image and personal preference. I don't think it's one of those areas where one glove fits all. Indeed, I am far from convinced that looking sharper is always better for the very same reasons.

If you are looking for a starting point though you could always grab the free Nik collection that includes sharpeners. https://www.google.com​/nikcollection/ (external link)

I use Nik already but Im looking for more options. Indeed it is very individual and of course not a one glove fits all scenario which is why Im trying to explore more options and techniques.

Really Im hoping more for techniques rather than just plug-in recommendations as I expect Ive tried most of them, e.g. high pass settings coupled with USM settings

agedbriar wrote in post #18304481 (external link)
If detail is good but you are still missing the impression of (clean) sharpness, perhaps you need some added clarity.

Topaz Clarity gives you a lot of control and good results without artifacts.

http://www.topazlabs.c​om/clarity (external link)

I usually run. 'local contrast' action and a midtone contouring action applied with masks selectively, after playing with clarity, detail, Nik color Efex pro, etc. to see if I can pull any more out of it without losing subtlety or clipping etc


I'll do a try amount of presahrening then later some selective sharpening but thats always hard to gauge

I run Nik sharpener just before printing and don't get me wrong, results are good, but Im toking to find if I can increase the perception of acuity over and above simplesahrpening.

Im thinking perhaps along the lines of a high pass run then some USM but not tried it yet -wondered what voter's workflows were for this sort of thing


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ashleykaryl
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Mar 18, 2017 17:56 as a reply to I Simonius's post |  #5

Much depends on the subject, but don't underestimate lighting. You haven't given us any examples of images, but the way a subject is lit can obviously transform the initial impression of sharpness. There is also good old fashioned technique like using a tripod and lens hood.

I'm not intending to dissuade you from finding alternative techniques in post-production, but merely to point out that the process starts at the picture taking stage. Custom camera profiling can also create the impression of more sharpness, simply by lifting and separating certain colours more effectively.


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icor1031
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Mar 19, 2017 00:11 |  #6

What lens are you using, OP?


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agedbriar
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Mar 19, 2017 03:03 |  #7

You might also try printing with Qimage, which incorporates a print-oriented sharpening tool. You only control the sharpening Amount, but the results are good nonetheless.




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mikeearly
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Post has been edited 9 months ago by mikeearly.
Mar 19, 2017 16:31 |  #8

Not sure what you are looking for other than a listing of what sharpening packages are out there. Nor can I tell how big you are trying to print. I've had excellent results (to me and others that have seen my prints) using LR sharpening with a careful application of a mask with images from my 5DSr with the 11-24 and a Canon imagePROGRAF PRO-2000 going 20"x30". From my experience there are a ton of "things" that can mess up the impression of sharpness like the "wrong" contrast, clarity, etc as well as too much or too little sharpening. Now, maybe my prints would not be sharp enough for you but to me if you look at the print and the impression (I agree this is key) is that it is sharp and clean (not crunchy) then I am happy.

And, of course the execution of actually taking the photo has to be done right -- I've ruined a number of photos cause I did not anticipate just how much very little movement / vibration impacts those 51 megapixels :)


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AZGeorge
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Mar 21, 2017 15:29 |  #9

Adding to what others have mentioned, I've found through the years, both as a shooter and in IT for publishing, that it's always best to deal with issues of sharpness and clarity when processing for the final image size and purpose.

Just reducing in size the same file that produced that wonderful big art print hanging on the wall will, for example, not likely produce an optimal 720 pixel wide image for the web or even the best possible 5 by 7 for printing.


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I ­ Simonius
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Post has been edited 8 months ago by I Simonius.
Mar 23, 2017 07:57 |  #10

ashleykaryl wrote in post #18304553 (external link)
Much depends on the subject, but don't underestimate lighting. You haven't given us any examples of images, but the way a subject is lit can obviously transform the initial impression of sharpness. There is also good old fashioned technique like using a tripod and lens hood.

I'm not intending to dissuade you from finding alternative techniques in post-production, but merely to point out that the process starts at the picture taking stage.

of course -goes without saying
:)

ashleykaryl wrote in post #18304553 (external link)
Custom camera profiling can also create the impression of more sharpness, simply by lifting and separating certain colours more effectively.

Can you explain how to custom camera profile please?


agedbriar wrote in post #18304807 (external link)
You might also try printing with Qimage, which incorporates a print-oriented sharpening tool. You only control the sharpening Amount, but the results are good nonetheless.

I use IMAGEPRINT so not keen on using a different RIP but thanks for the suggestion


mikeearly wrote in post #18305336 (external link)
Not sure what you are looking for other than a listing of what sharpening packages are out there. Nor can I tell how big you are trying to print. I've had excellent results (to me and others that have seen my prints) using LR sharpening with a careful application of a mask with images from my 5DSr with the 11-24 and a Canon imagePROGRAF PRO-2000 going 20"x30". From my experience there are a ton of "things" that can mess up the impression of sharpness like the "wrong" contrast, clarity, etc as well as too much or too little sharpening. Now, maybe my prints would not be sharp enough for you but to me if you look at the print and the impression (I agree this is key) is that it is sharp and clean (not crunchy) then I am happy.

I agree that processing does impact hugely on printing sharpness, and that ultimately it is all about the impression to the viewer. I am certainly after subtle processing and not using a sledgehammer to crack eggs !
;)


I think probably what I am looking for is another technique in photoshop (rather than plug-in) similar perhaps to the sort of midtone contouring advocated by the likes of Vincent Versace and George Dewolfe crossed with a. a high pass setting used subtly, to use at the very last stage before final sharpening or maybe even just after final sharpening (done for size of print and subject matter and masked for sky, darks etc)

I think what I need to do is dig out the Sharpening book again by Bruce Fraser and Jeff Schewe, experiment a bit and make myself an adaptable action for photoshop. I suppose I hoped someone had already been down that road

mikeearly wrote in post #18305336 (external link)
And, of course the execution of actually taking the photo has to be done right -- I've ruined a number of photos cause I did not anticipate just how much very little movement / vibration impacts those 51 megapixels :)

of course!
:)

AZGeorge wrote in post #18307140 (external link)
Adding to what others have mentioned, I've found through the years, both as a shooter and in IT for publishing, that it's always best to deal with issues of sharpness and clarity when processing for the final image size and purpose.

of course
:)

AZGeorge wrote in post #18307140 (external link)
Just reducing in size the same file that produced that wonderful big art print hanging on the wall will, for example, not likely produce an optimal 720 pixel wide image for the web or even the best possible 5 by 7 for printing

yes indeed

Thanks for all your thoughts


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ashleykaryl
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Post has been last edited 8 months ago by ashleykaryl. 2 edits done in total.
Mar 24, 2017 11:20 |  #11

I Simonius wrote in post #18308576 (external link)
of course -goes without saying
:)

Can you explain how to custom camera profile please?


You need to create custom profiles for your camera based on the lighting conditions. To do this, shoot a well exposed image of a ColorChecker chart and then use profiling software like ColorChecker Passport to create the profile for your camera, which only takes a minute.

When you are using a processing app like Lightroom, simply apply that profile whenever you have an image shot with similar lighting and you will generally see a much improved result.

EDIT: Just a clarification that this impacts the colour rather than the sharpness as such, however greater separation of tones can give the impression of better sharpness. Imagine an image of a parrot with yellow and orange feathers. If you can see every nuance in tone very clearly it will look sharper than an image with a standard camera profile where the colours are less well defined.


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I ­ Simonius
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Mar 25, 2017 20:44 |  #12

ashleykaryl wrote in post #18309642 (external link)
You need to create custom profiles for your camera based on the lighting conditions. To do this, shoot a well exposed image of a ColorChecker chart and then use profiling software like ColorChecker Passport to create the profile for your camera, which only takes a minute.

When you are using a processing app like Lightroom, simply apply that profile whenever you have an image shot with similar lighting and you will generally see a much improved result.

EDIT: Just a clarification that this impacts the colour rather than the sharpness as such, however greater separation of tones can give the impression of better sharpness. Imagine an image of a parrot with yellow and orange feathers. If you can see every nuance in tone very clearly it will look sharper than an image with a standard camera profile where the colours are less well defined.


thanks - you know what, I did buy colour checker passport but what with one thing and another I never got round to using it, thanks for the reminder and prompt - I really must get round to doing it.


So the idea is to do it for different lighting situations? i.e. Bright full sunlight (we should ever be so lucky here) , overcast etc?


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ashleykaryl
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Post has been edited 8 months ago by ashleykaryl.
Mar 26, 2017 04:15 as a reply to I Simonius's post |  #13

In the testing I have done you are basically good with one daylight profile, but you would then create profiles for other kinds of lighting you might use like tungsten or flash etc. At that point I only need to create a profile in unique mixed lighting conditions that might be something like a room with a mixture of daylight, tungsten and halogen for example. If you have more than one camera you'll want to create different profiles.

Just remember you still need to set an accurate white balance, but that is a separate issue.


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ashleykaryl
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Mar 30, 2017 08:05 as a reply to I Simonius's post |  #14

X-Rite have just published an article I wrote that may help you with understanding the ColorChecker Passport Photo.

http://blog.xritephoto​.com .../colorchecker-passport-2/ (external link)


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I ­ Simonius
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Mar 31, 2017 10:31 as a reply to ashleykaryl's post |  #15

many thanks


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