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FORUMS General Gear Talk Changing Camera Brands 
Thread started 15 Mar 2017 (Wednesday) 15:06
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Seriously thinking about moving to nikon

 
joedlh
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Mar 28, 2017 08:01 |  #46

tdlavigne wrote in post #18312801 (external link)
The position of of the sun at the beaches I'm usually at always ends up behind the model over the water, so I'm typically shooting backlit basically. With the 5DIII, 5DII, 70D, and 7D I always had to deal with either blown out water behind the model if I exposed for the model, or ended up with noisy shadows/midtones if I underexposed for the water and tried to recover everything else in post. Ergo...limited DR could only capture so much detail in such a high contrast situation.

Shooting at a different time of day, using fill flash or reflectors are not options?


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DaviSto
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Mar 28, 2017 08:39 |  #47

tdlavigne wrote in post #18312801 (external link)
Good example would be when I used to use a 5DIII at the beach here in California. The position of of the sun at the beaches I'm usually at always ends up behind the model over the water, so I'm typically shooting backlit basically. With the 5DIII, 5DII, 70D, and 7D I always had to deal with either blown out water behind the model if I exposed for the model, or ended up with noisy shadows/midtones if I underexposed for the water and tried to recover everything else in post. Ergo...limited DR could only capture so much detail in such a high contrast situation.

Once I switched to Sony (A7) and later on Nikon (D610 and D800e) there was a very noticeable difference in my ability to capture more detail in those scenes just straight out of camera...and with a little tweaking in LR or ACR I could do things I was never able to do with Canon. So yeah...there's reasons why someone might want more DR. Just like some need 11fps, or AF down to -3ev. Just because some people are content with what their brand or camera can do, doesn't mean it's for everyone, nor does it change the fact that Canon quite simply is lagging behind in DR. It is what it is.

Case of needing to get up and get out really, really early to catch the friendliest light where you are shooting. Tough one. ;-)a


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Tom ­ Reichner
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Mar 28, 2017 08:45 |  #48

DaviSto wrote in post #18313134 (external link)
Case of needing to get up and get out really, really early to catch the friendliest light where you are shooting. Tough one. ;-)a

Only in the summer does the sun come up really, really early in LA, where he is located. Today the sun doesn't rise until 6:45, which isn't really that early at all. Heck, even most office workers are up and out the door by 7am or thereabouts. It really doesn't make sense to me why he thinks he always has to shoot backlit.


"Your" and "you're" are different words with completely different meanings - please use the correct one.
"They're", "their", and "there" are different words with completely different meanings - please use the correct one.
"Fare" and "fair" are different words with completely different meanings - please use the correct one. The proper expression is "moot point", NOT "mute point".

  
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tdlavigne
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Post edited over 1 year ago by tdlavigne. (2 edits in all)
     
Mar 28, 2017 20:02 as a reply to  @ Tom Reichner's post |  #49

Been to Laguna or Malibu lately? The sun is ALWAYS behind the cliffs, then directly overhead, and then over the ocean. Maybe there's other beaches I'm not familiar with, but Laguna is 20 mins away, and Malibu 45....I don't feel like driving down to SD or Ventura to explore, and I doubt any agencies want to send models that far either. If this were Miami, then it'd be a non-issue. But since it isn't, and I actually like being able to capture more DR in my images, especially given the way I prefer to shoot stylistically...I'll stick with my earlier comment that it's a useful thing to have (DR that is).

ETA: and before anyone else asks "Well why can't you just do blah blah blah"...I was just pointing out a situation where DR came in handy, for the fanboys who think it's pointless and the 5DIII is acceptable for every situation. If you like Canon and think 10-11 stops of DR is good enough for you then good for you; but not everyone shoots the way you do, and some people might be better served elsewhere. Not being a contrarian...I tell plenty of people to shoot Sony, Fuji, Canon, etc depending on their needs. But since the OP specifically mentioned wanting the one thing Canon can't offer, in this case I can't suggest a 5DIII.




  
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tdlavigne
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Mar 28, 2017 20:07 as a reply to  @ joedlh's post |  #50

Fill flash would be, but I hate the look. I've got an Elinchrom Ranger Quadra setup...but not particularly fond of the "strobed" look, be it as key or fill. Doesn't go over so well with my intended audience either. One day when I'm famous I'll look into the assistants to carry my reflectors though lol. As for earlier in the day; the sun sets in the west, and 99.9% of California is cliffs on the coast, so waking up early puts you in shade, with the sun still hitting (and blowing out) the water. Eventually it comes over the cliffs but is rather high (raccoon eyes) and finally passes overhead and is once again, over the water leading you to have to shoot either backlit, or with the model facing the sun and the cliffs as a background instead of the water (negating the point of even being at the beach).

The easiest solution is to get an assistant and reflector, but for non-paid stuff that's easier said than done. Or the other actual easiest solution: shoot Nikon lol. Then there's no issue or problem and you can shoot however you want.




  
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elitejp
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Mar 28, 2017 21:10 |  #51

Might be cheaper too(getting a nikon) than needing all the other equipment and paid assistants ߘ


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Left ­ Handed ­ Brisket
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Mar 28, 2017 21:24 |  #52

Thorrulz wrote in post #18310986 (external link)
Shadow recovery along with dynamic range is what swayed me over to the Nikon camp. Never liked the noise that showed up in any of the Canon dslr's I owned and it was like a night and day difference when comparing my 1Ds miii files to the files from the D800.

Have to admit though I am looking at switching to Sony, specifically the a7r II and am looking forward to that 42mp sensor.

Your 2002 11MP 1Ds is inferior to your 2012 36MP 800?

Mark me down in the shocked column. SHOCKED!!!

I'm thinking of stepping up from my Nikon CoolPix 990 to a 5D4, I hear the shutter lag is not nearly as bad.

Edit: I realize there are certain situations where a stop or two of DR can make or break a shot, but those are very specific situations. More often than not, people are still bracketing and merging different exposures.


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Tom ­ Reichner
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Post edited over 1 year ago by Tom Reichner.
     
Mar 29, 2017 00:02 |  #53

.

Thorrulz wrote in post #18310986 (external link)
. . . it was like a night and day difference when comparing my 1Ds miii files to the files from the D800.

Left Handed Brisket wrote in post #18313690 (external link)
Your 2002 11MP 1Ds is inferior to your 2012 36MP 800?
Mark me down in the shocked column. SHOCKED!!!
I'm thinking of stepping up from my Nikon CoolPix 990 to a 5D4, I hear the shutter lag is not nearly as bad.

I'm not sure where you're getting 2002 from. The 1Ds Mark 3 that Thorrulz mentioned was first released in 2007. And it had 21 megapixels, not 11.

The 1Ds miii was not discontinued until mid-2012. So it was actually still Canon's flagship DSLR when the D800 was released, as the 1Dx was not released until one month after the D800 was released.

It's not like they are generations apart, as their "current" status actually overlapped, albeit for only a month or two.

.


"Your" and "you're" are different words with completely different meanings - please use the correct one.
"They're", "their", and "there" are different words with completely different meanings - please use the correct one.
"Fare" and "fair" are different words with completely different meanings - please use the correct one. The proper expression is "moot point", NOT "mute point".

  
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tdlavigne
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Mar 29, 2017 02:03 as a reply to  @ elitejp's post |  #54

Depends on the person/photographer really. For my specific needs I can relate to the OP and I think switching was a good idea...at least for some very specific needs I have/had that require what Nikon offers. On the other hand I still want to get a Canon body for some specific things Nikon doesn't/can't do (video and telephotos for headshots/beauty). I should have added that to my original comments, that my overall opinion is that not one single body can do everything perfect and in my experience having shot with most of the brands now is that it's ideal (if it's financially feasible) to have multiple systems for different needs. I would go so far as to say the OP should definitely keep their Canon gear in addition to getting a Nikon body if possible.




  
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Left ­ Handed ­ Brisket
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Mar 29, 2017 08:01 |  #55

Tom Reichner wrote in post #18313769 (external link)
.

I'm not sure where you're getting 2002 from. The 1Ds Mark 3 that Thorrulz mentioned was first released in 2007. And it had 21 megapixels, not 11.

The 1Ds miii was not discontinued until mid-2012. So it was actually still Canon's flagship DSLR when the D800 was released, as the 1Dx was not released until one month after the D800 was released.

It's not like they are generations apart, as their "current" status actually overlapped, albeit for only a month or two.

.

Missed the miii


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Mar 29, 2017 08:12 |  #56

tdlavigne wrote in post #18313635 (external link)
and before anyone else asks "Well why can't you just do blah blah blah"...I was just pointing out a situation where DR came in handy, for the fanboys who think it's pointless and the 5DIII is acceptable for every situation

I didn't see any posts that shouted, "Canon Rules!!! Nikon su...!!!", which is a typical fanboy response. The discussion has been reasonable in my view. When someone is faced with a large expenditure, it's considered helpful to offer alternatives.

I was one of those who asked about alternative lighting for the shoot. I live on the east coast with no cliffs where the morning sun is excellent. I didn't realize the California situation. I now see that it is challenging.


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Left ­ Handed ­ Brisket
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Mar 29, 2017 08:35 |  #57

East coast light rules!! Suck it Cali cliffs!!!


PSA: The above post may contain sarcasm, reply at your own risk | Not in gear database: Auto Sears 50mm 2.0 / 3x CL-360, Nikon SB-28, SunPak auto 322 D, Minolta 20

  
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Mar 29, 2017 08:50 |  #58

Tom Reichner wrote in post #18309632 (external link)
But just because the OP wants better DR does not necessarily mean that better DR is the path that he/she should take. Dynamic range is greatly overvalued by many photographers - they think that better DR will help them solve some of their problems, and it often doesn't. Many times here on POTN, thread starters are misguided in what they want, and posts that seek to guide them in another direction altogether are sometimes the best advice of all.

Farmer's post isn't stupid, but it is shallow. Honestly, even though I agree with his advice, I don't see how his post is helpful, because he takes no time to explain why he advises against increased dynamic range. Helpful posts explain the "why" behind the advice, and seek to educate others........I do not see that level of helpfulness in Farmer's post.

.

The human eye has the appearance of high dynamic range only because the pupil opens and closes and the brain composites the images into a scene. Were it not for the instant adaptation and the 'photo slicing' of the brain, the human eye would be a pretty poor optical device.
In film photography of 40 years ago, the scene on the beach with sun setting and reflecting off the water and a backlit subject existed even then, and if shooting color transparency, the DR was even narrower than the dSLR of 15 years ago. Folks accommodated via technique, they did not complain about how constrained the DR was of color tranparency and wish for the DR of color neg in their slide film.
Fast forward to today and everyone is bellyaching about how one cannot push the shadows 5EV (or whatever amount) with their Canon. My response is 'technique'...put a flash on the camera or use reflectors to bounce light back to the subject, and decrease the scene DR. When you see the amount of noise in the shadows from a pushed DR -- even with a Sony or Nikon -- my first desire is to 'put more light into it, so you don't have to push the exposure quite that much!' and improve the overall IQ as a result.

Call me old fashioned, but I find more and more photographers are poor in technique, and overly reliant upon technology to make up for their lack of skills. The fact that cars are not stolen because they have a stick shift is one indication of the dumbing down of the US population. The TV ads I see every day with the automatically self-parking car is an example of the dumbing down of the world population. Fewer skills, more reliance on technology. Yes, wide DR is nice, but as already pointed out 1EV of lesser DR seldom makes or breaks the ability to capture a usable image....it subtley alters the content, but just maybe the viewer just does not miss that content from the photo!


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Mar 29, 2017 16:37 |  #59

Tom Reichner wrote in post #18313769 (external link)
.

I'm not sure where you're getting 2002 from. The 1Ds Mark 3 that Thorrulz mentioned was first released in 2007. And it had 21 megapixels, not 11.

The 1Ds miii was not discontinued until mid-2012. So it was actually still Canon's flagship DSLR when the D800 was released, as the 1Dx was not released until one month after the D800 was released.

It's not like they are generations apart, as their "current" status actually overlapped, albeit for only a month or two.

.

Still, 5 years (gap between their release dates, which is more relevant) is a long time time in camera development.


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tdlavigne
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Mar 30, 2017 20:09 as a reply to  @ Left Handed Brisket's post |  #60

I would actually agree lol. I'm told Miami is the best (other than the exotic locations) for beach stuff




  
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Seriously thinking about moving to nikon
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