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FORUMS General Gear Talk Changing Camera Brands
Thread started 20 Apr 2017 (Thursday) 11:15
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Sony A9: Is Canon doomed ?

 
CheshireCat
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Apr 21, 2017 00:18 |  #16

artsf wrote in post #18333588 (external link)
Sony, as a company, is constantly distracted, saturating with never ending new models that make even recent ones obsolete

I think that should be praised. Sony gives you the option to have a better camera every few months. Buying is not mandatory; having options is good.

Sony's plan is clearly to take over Canikon's market share. In order to do that, they need an extremely fast release schedule, and they are executing.

artsf wrote in post #18333588 (external link)
They started out with A-mount, then E- mount, then FE mount, who knows what's next, medium format?

For Canon we have: EF mount, EF-S mount and M mount. Not much of a difference here.


1Dx, 5D2 and some lenses

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mystik610
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Apr 21, 2017 05:59 |  #17

Canon will be fine. Nikon, on the other hand, has pegged a lot of their success on their ability to source sensors from Sony, and it seems Sony has scaled back on sourcing sensors to them. They haven't releases competitive cameras in a while.

Brand wars aside, the significance of the A9 is that it represents the moment where mirrorless cameras have truly emerged as the dominant technology. Along with things like eye focus and lack of micro-focus issues, the 20fps burst rate, continuous view viewfinder, 1/32000s shutter speed, and having 693 phase detect points covering the entire frame are not possible when you have a moving mirror as part of the design.


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nekrosoft13
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Post has been edited 7 days ago by nekrosoft13.
Apr 21, 2017 07:46 |  #18

I find it funny how Canon users try to mask canons lack of innovation by saying Canon is conservative, I call it ignorant and lazy.,


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elitejp
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Apr 21, 2017 08:06 |  #19

Just curious
Whos sensors did nikon use before using sony


6D; canon 85mm 1.8, Tamron 24-70mm VC, Canon 135L Canon 70-200L is ii

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mystik610
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Apr 21, 2017 08:19 |  #20

elitejp wrote in post #18333779 (external link)
Just curious
Whos sensors did nikon use before using sony

Toshiba. Sony bought Toshiba's sensor business 2 years ago.


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Wilt
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Apr 21, 2017 08:40 |  #21

CheshireCat wrote in post #18333617 (external link)
I think that should be praised. Sony gives you the option to have a better camera every few months. Buying is not mandatory; having options is good.

Sony's plan is clearly to take over Canikon's market share. In order to do that, they need an extremely fast release schedule, and they are executing.

For Canon we have: EF mount, EF-S mount and M mount. Not much of a difference here.

That avatar of yours needs a tongue in the cheek of the Cheshire Cat

A difference of EF vs. EF-S is really ONE mount with a modification that is merely to prevent folks from errantly trying to use too-small image circle on FF body.

Like the difference of OM mount vs. Micro mount A vs E is 'generational' change, and the generations are a few years (Sony) apart rather than a few decades (OM vs Micro 4/3 mount) apart. We know the M mount is to deal with the thinner mirrorless body (although in theory a thin adapter could deal with that), Canon decided that EF-M* lenses are more compact, lightweight; Sony also has to deal with body thickness with the A mount body's retention of a semisilvered (aka 'pellicle') reflex mirror vs. the thinner E mount body electronic viewfinder. So like EF vs. M, really A- vs. E-mount is a generational body design difference in philosophy.

Where some might fault Sony for its ambivalence with the A mount, which it still supports, just with no new lenses recently introduced, one might equally fault Canon in the M mount iffiness, with intro and withdrawl of an M body...although Canon has come back with an M mount retry effort body. In view of the more recent critiques of the yet-launched A9 body vs. big lens space for fingers to fit, perhaps the continuity of the bodies in the A-mount makes sense until Sony gets the physical ergonomics fine tuned in the A9-II?!


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Wilt
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Post has been last edited 7 days ago by Wilt. 3 edits done in total.
Apr 21, 2017 08:43 |  #22

mystik610 wrote in post #18333788 (external link)
Toshiba. Sony bought Toshiba's sensor business 2 years ago.

So Nikon's current pickle is less due to erroneous link up with Sony, but merely the misfortunes of corporate exchanges of business assets of a selected source. For those who say Nikon brought it on themselves by linking up with a competitor, the truth is merely that a competitor bought out a source of Nikon components.

So is the truth in history that Nikon used to go to Toshiba to fab Nikon sensor designs, but then Nikon made its mistake in adopting a Sony sensor design that Toshiba also fab'd? And eventually Sony bought out the Toshiba fab facility?


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nekrosoft13
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Apr 21, 2017 08:44 |  #23

they also used Aptina for the 1 series.

Aptina is known for making security camera sensors. I would have to look it up but either now or at some point Aptina was part of Micron.

And I would have to double check but on at least one occasion they used Renesas fab to produce the sensor, that Nikon designed.


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Luckless
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Apr 21, 2017 08:50 |  #24

As a canon user, would I like to see canon gear with specs like this? Sure. But specs on paper are far different from real world use. Canon products work great and make excellent photos, and I've never once had someone look at a finished image and say "Oh wow, that is amazing, but it would have totally been so much better if you had used X camera instead..."

I buy gear that fits my hand, meets my actual needs, and that I feel I can rely on.

As far as Canon lenses, they have 3 sets of lenses in 30 years, the EF lenses mount to EF-s cameras, and no one really talks about EF-m or whatever it is because it was always presented as a minor sideline product to the main tech to fill a minor niche, not as a front line replacement.

I have fairly high confidence that the EF lens I buy today for my current Canon camera will mount to the latest and greatest offering that Canon brings around in the next few years without needing some dodgy adaptor adding an extra point of failure to the system. Sony has all their lenses on the go in less than a decade...


Batteries might actually perform better than Sony's own documentation suggests, which I find kind of surprising as it is typically the other way around for those kind of things, but it is still not nearly up to par with what can be done with the 1dx line. I own 7Ds, and have a grip on one of them, but that doesn't remotely compare to the sealing and durability of the 1Dx.


The A9 is a sweet looking camera, and will do great in the hands of many photographers. It is however unlikely that it is going to sink Canon as a company, the same as Nikon's offerings with their awesome DR jump a few years back didn't rattle Canon's market share to a dangerous degree.


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Wilt
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Apr 21, 2017 08:51 |  #25

nekrosoft13 wrote in post #18333806 (external link)
they also used Aptina for the 1 series.

Aptina is known for making security camera sensors. I would have to look it up but either now or at some point Aptina was part of Micron.

And I would have to double check but on at least one occasion they used Renesas fab to produce the sensor, that Nikon designed.

That merely muddies the water.
Where Nikon used Aptina CMOS sensors in video cameras, Canon has a video-oriented lens line in the C mount, too! Sony uses the E mount in video lenses as well.


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alex66
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Apr 21, 2017 10:00 |  #26

Nikon have used various makers for their camera sensors, I think the D70 and other 6mp cameras used a Sony sensor and I think the D80/200 did as well. As I read the interview with the Sony person they were keeping the sensors they designed with their camera division back from OEM use in the first instance, not that they were not making them for other makers. I think also the sensor from the D500 and the one from the D5 were a collar between Nikon and Sony sensor division so they are unlikely to appear in a Pentax or Sony SLT. I would however think that Nikon should be more worried by this camera than Canon if Sony set up a good pro services support infrastructure as they are getting to a similar FF sales volumes as Nikon. Canon are pretty safe for now, but I can remember when Nikon were a good way ahead with Pro cameras with the F2 and F3 it was Canons far superior AF tech that got them to no.1.


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Jotto123
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Post has been edited 7 days ago by Jotto123.
Apr 21, 2017 11:10 |  #27

Its crazy. Sony keeps producing game changing cameras. This camera is absolutely amazing. Technologically they've already surpassed Canon and in such a short time. Now they even have a good stable of native lenses and they keep producing more and more.

The near future is sony.

Either Canon and Nikon starts listening to their consumers or they will go the way of kodak and those before them.


7d - 135L - 85mm 1.8 - 50mm 1.8 - 24mm 2.8

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nekrosoft13
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Apr 21, 2017 11:12 |  #28

Jotto123 wrote in post #18333937 (external link)
Its crazy. Sony keeps producing game changing cameras. This camera is absolutely amazing. Technologically they've already surpassed Canon and in such a short time. Now they even have a good stable of native lenses.

The near future is sony.

Either Canon and Nikon starts listening to their consumers or they will go the way of kodak and those before them.

Nikon will be the next Kodak, and Canon will be the next Nikon  :p


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PNPhotography
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Apr 21, 2017 11:18 |  #29

Looks good on paper.I have no interest in Sony and I'd bet not not to many sport photogs invested in Canikon camera's/lenses will switch over this.Nice though to see someone outside of Canikon pushing the envelope,maybe they will offer more.


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mystik610
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Apr 21, 2017 11:43 |  #30

Wilt wrote in post #18333805 (external link)
So Nikon's current pickle is less due to erroneous link up with Sony, but merely the misfortunes of corporate exchanges of business assets of a selected source. For those who say Nikon brought it on themselves by linking up with a competitor, the truth is merely that a competitor bought out a source of Nikon components.

So is the truth in history that Nikon used to go to Toshiba to fab Nikon sensor designs, but then Nikon made its mistake in adopting a Sony sensor design that Toshiba also fab'd? And eventually Sony bought out the Toshiba fab facility?

Toshiba made the sensors for their lower level stuff. Cameras like the d810 and d5 are using Sony sensors. The issue is lnt that they can't source sensors from another company....The issue is that there isn't anyone out there currently making sensors that can surpass Nikon's current, but aging flagship cameras. Why upgrade to a new model with a lesser sensor?

But of course Nikon needing sensors creates opportunities for others to step up to the plate (samsung)?)


focalpointsphoto.com (external link) - flickr (external link) - Instagram (external link)
α7ʀII - RX1ʀII - 85GM - 24-70GM - Sony 70-200GM - Zeiss Loxia 21 - Sony/Zeiss 135 1.8

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Sony A9: Is Canon doomed ?
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