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FORUMS General Gear Talk Changing Camera Brands
Thread started 20 Apr 2017 (Thursday) 11:15
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Sony A9: Is Canon doomed ?

 
DaviSto
... sorry. I got carried away!
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Joined Nov 2016
Abuja Nigeria
Post has been edited 7 months ago by DaviSto.
Apr 28, 2017 12:41 |  #631

CheshireCat wrote in post #18341067 (external link)
Like this fake reflex with 16 fake MP ?

https://www.alibaba.co​m ...-factory_60085196349.ht​ml (external link)

Whoah ... that is one horrible looking camera. The fake that I came across was a lot more respectable than that...but dreadful images with a really heavy colour cast and a hopeless menu system.


Comment and (constructive) criticism always welcome.

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Hogloff
Cream of the Crop
7,305 posts
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British Columbia
Apr 28, 2017 13:20 |  #632

DaviSto wrote in post #18341059 (external link)
I agree, high ISO and fast shutter speeds don't do a lot for intentional blur. But ... overall, IBIS is still a diminishing advantage as sensors improve. I'd imagine that most panning shots involve telephoto lenses, too. In-lens OS will cover this.

Wonder why we are seeing IS on lenses like the 16-35 if there are diminishing returns...well maybe because Canon does not have IBIS.

From one that has used IBIS cameras...I find them extremely useful especially shooting street in darker areas. I can handhold my 35mm down to 1/10 of a second with great results. Of course if there is movement in the image, then you'll see that as blur ( could be what you want of course ). With IBIS, it gives you a choice to either boost ISO or take the shot with a more optimal ISO and use the IBIS to stabilize. Without IBIS, your degrees of freedom of what you want to do is diminished...you can only boost ISO which I don't care how great the sensors are, reduces image quality the more you boost the ISO.




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idkdc
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Apr 28, 2017 13:52 |  #633

DaviSto wrote in post #18341052 (external link)
Maybe it won't be Yongnuo. But I'm prepared to bet that one or two Chinese companies will be making and selling camera bodies not too long from now.

I would assume it would be DJI...they have a partnership with and unknown share in Hasselblad.


1DIII through 1DXII(2) | 5D2-4 | 5DS | 8-800mm
XT2 | 16-140mm

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idkdc
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Apr 28, 2017 13:56 |  #634

CheshireCat wrote in post #18341041 (external link)
Ahem... Japan is not China. Quite different country, people, culture, economy, ...
The only thing in common that Japan and China have is that western people often confuse the two :-)

Thank you for being offended for my people (seriously get tired of this). China has wealth concentrated in dense cities with public transportation systems like Japan. Think Shanghai, Beijing, Ningbo, etc. Therefore their buying patterns will reflect closer to Japan than America for now based on that infrastructure. The biggest difference between Japan and China other than land mass is that Chinese citizens are not allowed to easily travel between different regions except on certain holidays of the year or with exceptions by the government.


1DIII through 1DXII(2) | 5D2-4 | 5DS | 8-800mm
XT2 | 16-140mm

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CyberDyneSystems
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Post has been last edited 7 months ago by CyberDyneSystems. 3 edits done in total.
Apr 28, 2017 14:15 |  #635

DaviSto wrote in post #18341052 (external link)
Maybe it won't be Yongnuo. But I'm prepared to bet that one or two Chinese companies will be making and selling camera bodies not too long from now.

Xiaoyi is one making them now;

https://smile.amazon.c​om ...F8&qid=1493406744&s​r=1-14 (external link)

https://petapixel.com ...rless-camera-leica-looks/ (external link)


GEAR LIST
CDS' HOT LINKS
Jake Hegnauer Photography (external link)

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corndog ­ cabernet
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Joined May 2010
State of chaos
Post has been edited 7 months ago by corndog cabernet.
Apr 28, 2017 18:49 |  #636

Though I have concluded for myself that Canon is far from "doomed", the Sony system has me quite intrigued for a high quality compact ensemble.

I can see myself with one of the A7 bodies with the 21 and 35 Loxias along with either the FE 85 or Batis 85 to make a three prime lens travel kit.
This would closely mimic my Contax G2 kit I use to have and dearly loved. With that kit I had the 21 Biogon, 45 Planar, and 90 Sonnar.

For my next trip I will consider renting some of these from Lens Rentals to evaluate. Looks promising. My prejudice about Sony not withstanding.




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Hogloff
Cream of the Crop
7,305 posts
Joined Apr 2003
British Columbia
Apr 28, 2017 19:04 |  #637

corndog cabernet wrote in post #18341334 (external link)
Though I have concluded for myself that Canon is far from "doomed", the Sony system has me quite intrigued for a high quality compact ensemble.

I can see myself with one of the A7 bodies with the 21 and 35 Loxias along with either the FE 85 or Batis 85 to make a three prime lens travel kit.
This would closely mimic my Contax G2 kit I use to have and dearly loved. With that kit I had the 21 Biogon, 45 Planar, and 90 Tessar.

For my next trip I will consider renting some of these from Lens Rentals to evaluate. Looks promising. My prejudice about Sony not withstanding.

Personally I would not rent them for a trip. The Sony system needs getting used to and I think you would frustrate yourself getting used to Sony while on a trip. Best to rent for a week before actually going on a trip and play around your home town.

My travel kit includes the Sony 28 and 35 lenses which make for an very compact kit when out and about not necessarily looking for photos.




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Tom ­ Reichner
"I am a little creepy"
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Joined Dec 2008
Omak, in north-central Washington state, USA
Apr 28, 2017 19:20 |  #638

DaviSto wrote in post #18340916 (external link)
. . . issues like the current bodies being too small to handle, especially with big lenses, are going to be addressed and better options offered.

That would be one big step forward. Making the same tech in a significantly bigger, slightly heavier form factor would be a welcome improvement, as far as I'm concerned.

.


"Your" and "you're" are different words with completely different meanings - please use the correct one.
"They're", "their", and "there" are different words with completely different meanings - please use the correct one.
"Fare" and "fair" are different words with completely different meanings - please use the correct one. The proper expression is "peace of mind", NOT "piece of mind".

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Tom ­ Reichner
"I am a little creepy"
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Omak, in north-central Washington state, USA
Apr 28, 2017 19:32 |  #639

Charlie wrote in post #18341055 (external link)
. . . I can follow the 1/FL rule comfortably with too much concern for camera shake.

This doesn't make sense to me the way it is written.

Did you happen to mean "without" too much concern for camera shake, instead of "with" too much concern for camera shake?

.


"Your" and "you're" are different words with completely different meanings - please use the correct one.
"They're", "their", and "there" are different words with completely different meanings - please use the correct one.
"Fare" and "fair" are different words with completely different meanings - please use the correct one. The proper expression is "peace of mind", NOT "piece of mind".

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DaviSto
... sorry. I got carried away!
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Joined Nov 2016
Abuja Nigeria
Post has been last edited 7 months ago by DaviSto. 2 edits done in total.
Apr 28, 2017 19:38 |  #640

Tom Reichner wrote in post #18341349 (external link)
That would be one big step forward. Making the same tech in a significantly bigger, slightly heavier form factor would be a welcome improvement, as far as I'm concerned.

.

My guess is that Canon will offer at least one high quality mirrorless body in EF-M mount before Sony gets round to the very easy job of bulking up one of its top of the range cameras.

But it's just a guess ... or, maybe, a statement of faith. There are others around who will tell me Canon is sleeping very deeply and will not waken until the fire raging in the building has consumed its last possible exit route.


Comment and (constructive) criticism always welcome.

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Tom ­ Reichner
"I am a little creepy"
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Joined Dec 2008
Omak, in north-central Washington state, USA
Apr 28, 2017 19:45 |  #641

DaviSto wrote in post #18341356 (external link)
My guess is that Canon will offer at least one high quality mirrorless body in EF-M mount before Sony gets round to the very easy job of bulking up one of its top of the range cameras.

Just something I'm curious about:

Why doesn't Canon or Sony make a large mirrorless camera that uses their DSLR mounts, like the EF mount? I mean, why do mirrorless cameras seem to automatically get made in a small form factor and with a mount all their own?

For those of us who actually prefer larger cameras, why not make a camera just like a DSLR, with the same size and same mount and same battery and everything, except have a mirrorless shutter instead of a mirrored shutter?

.


"Your" and "you're" are different words with completely different meanings - please use the correct one.
"They're", "their", and "there" are different words with completely different meanings - please use the correct one.
"Fare" and "fair" are different words with completely different meanings - please use the correct one. The proper expression is "peace of mind", NOT "piece of mind".

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Hogloff
Cream of the Crop
7,305 posts
Joined Apr 2003
British Columbia
Apr 28, 2017 19:50 |  #642

Tom Reichner wrote in post #18341358 (external link)
Just something I'm curious about:

Why doesn't Canon or Sony make a large mirrorless camera that uses their DSLR mounts, like the EF mount? I mean, why do mirrorless cameras seem to automatically get made in a small form factor and with a mount all their own?

For those of us who actually prefer larger cameras, why not make a camera just like a DSLR, with the same size and same mount and same battery and everything, except have a mirrorless shutter instead of a mirrored shutter?

.

Maybe those that want a big DSLR like mirrorless is small in numbers. I for one don't want a DSLR sized mirrorless...one of the reasons I went to mirrorless is the compact light factor.




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DaviSto
... sorry. I got carried away!
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Joined Nov 2016
Abuja Nigeria
Post has been last edited 7 months ago by DaviSto. 2 edits done in total.
Apr 28, 2017 19:58 |  #643

Tom Reichner wrote in post #18341358 (external link)
Just something I'm curious about:

Why doesn't Canon or Sony make a large mirrorless camera that uses their DSLR mounts, like the EF mount? I mean, why do mirrorless cameras seem to automatically get made in a small form factor and with a mount all their own?

For those of us who actually prefer larger cameras, why not make a camera just like a DSLR, with the same size and same mount and same battery and everything, except have a mirrorless shutter instead of a mirrored shutter?

.

My guess is that Canon will actually enter FF mirrorless with an EF compatible (let's call it 'EF-M') mount. The bodies will have the same bulk as current EF bodies but less weight (air and a slightly stretched outer skin don't weigh a lot ... so they will be just a very little heavier than the Sony equivalents and 25mm or so deeper (that they have to be because of the EF flange distance ... what is it 44mm c.f. 18mm or thereabouts?).

That means that every EF lens currently out there will still be fully compatible with the new mirrorless body(ies). But they will also develop new EF-M exclusive lenses at the shorter focal lengths. These will be partly recessed into the space where the mirror used to be in EF mount DSLRs (like EF-S, EF-M will prevent lenses from being attached to EF mount cameras that will interfere with/be destructive of mirror components). That will enable Canon to offer a travel/street/landscap​e camera/lens combination at FLs from around 40mm downwards that has similar overall dimensions to the Sony mirrorless cameras (with lens mounted) ... i.e. in combination, it will be similarly compact. For the longer FLs, there will be nothing at all to gain from recessing the lenses into the body. The existing EF lens range will march on.


Comment and (constructive) criticism always welcome.

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Left ­ Handed ­ Brisket
That's my line!
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Joined Jun 2011
The Uwharrie Mts, NC
Apr 28, 2017 20:07 |  #644

DaviSto wrote in post #18341368 (external link)
My guess is that Canon will actually enter FF mirrorless with an EF compatible (let's call it 'EF-M') mount. The bodies will have the same bulk as current EF bodies but less weight (air and a slightly stretched outer skin don't weigh a lot ... so they will be just a very little heavier than the Sony equivalents and 25mm or so deeper (that they have to be because of the EF flange distance ... what is it 44mm c.f. 18mm or thereabouts?).

That means that every EF lens currently out there will still be fully compatible with the new mirrorless body(ies). But they will also develop new EF-M exclusive lenses at the shorter focal lengths. These will be partly recessed into the space where the mirror used to be in EF mount DSLRs (like EF-S, EF-M will prevent lenses from being attached to EF mount cameras that will interfere with/be destructive of mirror components). That will enable Canon to offer a travel/street/landscap​e camera/lens combination at FLs from around 40mm downwards that has similar overall dimensions to the Sony mirrorless cameras (with lens mounted) ... i.e. in combination, it will be similarly compact. For the longer FLs, there will be nothing at all to gain from recessing the lenses into the body. The existing EF lens range will march on.

yup.

i talked about marketing, product testing or whatever earlier in the thread. I can't say for certain why the M was killed in the States, certainly slow sales was part of it, but i think they missed the market and it became clear that they were not heading in the right direction.

it is dangerous territory but generally it is only a market leader that has the ability to mess around with product releases as a broad market test.

a body the size of the 6D is just big enough to feel steady in my hands, something that size would be a nice mirrorless EF mount body. Maybe even a little smaller.


PSA: The above post may contain sarcasm, reply at your own risk | Formerly he's gone before apostrophe-gate | Not in gear database: Canon 70-210 3.5-4.5, Auto Sears 50mm 2.0 / 2x CL-360, Nikon SB-28, SunPak auto 322 D, Minolta 20

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Left ­ Handed ­ Brisket
That's my line!
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Joined Jun 2011
The Uwharrie Mts, NC
Post has been edited 7 months ago by Left Handed Brisket.
Apr 28, 2017 20:08 |  #645

anyone know how the Canon SL1 compares in size to the high end sony mirrorless?

yeah, i'm too lazy to look it up.


PSA: The above post may contain sarcasm, reply at your own risk | Formerly he's gone before apostrophe-gate | Not in gear database: Canon 70-210 3.5-4.5, Auto Sears 50mm 2.0 / 2x CL-360, Nikon SB-28, SunPak auto 322 D, Minolta 20

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Sony A9: Is Canon doomed ?
FORUMS General Gear Talk Changing Camera Brands


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